Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Eviscero]

With a relatively small supply of vaccines being prepared for delivery within the US as early as the middle of December, necessarily difficult questions about prioritization have become front and center.

I feel very strongly that if you have tested positive for COVID, you should be in the lowest priority group. This isn't punitive---although I admit I do struggle with feelings of resentment towards people who are still catching this disease, as illogical as that is. Rather, it is smart public health policy: There are two goals,

1) minimize the number of deaths due to COVID, and
2) minimize the amount of time it takes to squelch the pandemic.

These goals are not at odds, but they do suggest different strategies. The first suggests we prioritize those that have the greatest risk of dying. The second suggests immunizing those at the greatest risk of contracting the disease. If you have had COVID, you very likely have at least partial immunity, at least in the short term. A vaccine given to someone who has had the disease leaves a susceptible person open to contracting it for the first time. So to you I say, back of the line.

I can't find anyone discussing prior infection as a prioritization criterion, which has me very concerned that we will unnecessarily prolong the epidemic as we wait for enough vaccine production to cover the entire population.

[Forogil]

I can't find anyone discussing prior infection as a prioritization criterion, which has me very concerned that we will unnecessarily prolong the epidemic as we wait for enough vaccine production to cover the entire population.

It will not cause a big delay - the number of previously infected is perhaps 20% at most, so it would only prolong it by perhaps 20%.

Additionally most of them haven't been tested, the test-percentage is at most 5% in "large" countries, so it will in practice only prolong it by 5% if we want something reliable.

[Vorkreist]

Research done on tiny sample sizes in way shorter a timeframe than is usually taken for the development, yes. That's precisely what worries me.
On top of that RNA based vaccination is a new and unproven technology.

Lets wait till a few million people are actually subjected to these vaccines until we talk about "a few fucking stupid side effects". I sincerely hope this doesn't blow up in our faces.

Yeah, any virus can fuck you up. So can the flu, most people never gave a hoot and flu vaccination with it's low efficiency rating was controversial.

Wow. This is on the same level of ignorance as anti mask and anti vacc loonies.
New unproven technology. Sounds spooky. Maybe Bill Gates does want to put chips in our asses after all.
And the absolutely deranged statement of "hey its just like a flu" except it kills way more people and spreads way easier. Just a flu bro.....

- - - Updated - - -

People seem way to trusting of arbitrary numbers given with too high precision.
The research studies aren't complete (their planned completion is in 2022) so we don't know if there are any long term effects, and we mostly have seen press releases with questionable analysis with a sparkling of data dredging.
Similarly it's likely that perhaps 2-3 million have died of the virus, whereas 1.4 million are just the reported cases.

Yeah. Wait until 2022 for the "complete research". Its just a flu bro . Let more millions die until all the Karens are absolutely sure there is no side effect.
Oh yeah that thing some "scientific" bullshit that said that a certain percent of the population needs to be vaccinated to end pandemic, fuck it. Don't trust those sneaky scientists with all their confusing numbers and shit.

[Forogil]

Yeah. Wait until 2022 for the "complete research".

That's the official end date of the current phase III trials (as far as I recall - might be later), and it's not scientifically accurate to claim that the vaccines are free from serious side effects before that. That shouldn't stop us from acting - but we shouldn't claim we know things we don't know.

Oh yeah that thing some "scientific" bullshit that said that a certain percent of the population needs to be vaccinated to end pandemic, fuck it. Don't trust those sneaky scientists with all their confusing numbers and shit.

Not all numbers allegedly from scientists are accurate, e.g. several of the efficiency numbers (not clear if from scientists or from press releases) seem questionable. There are other scientists checking them - but most of them seem good enough; even if the exact numbers are unclear.

[Edge-]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dr-...mp-coronavirus

Scott Atlas is gone, his limited time in government expired.

And America got just a little bit safer with one less lunatic dismissing the virus and encouraging Americans engage in risky behaviors.

[Granyala]

Wow. This is on the same level of ignorance as anti mask and anti vacc loonies.
New unproven technology. Sounds spooky.

You're cute.

But even you have to admit that this is the first RNA based vaccine we are attempting on a large scale (prior attempts never got approved). So yes: it essentially is a new and yet to be proven technology. Maybe it will turn out to be a boon, maybe not. The fact is: we do not know. Shortening development times from 5-8 years down to <1 year IS worrying, no matter how you put it. There are reasons why we test vaccines as extensively as we do before we administer them to millions (or in this case billions) of people.

[Granyala]

“In the interest of time for COVID-19, instead of searching for a new treatment, scientists have opted to test treatments that have already been approved for other diseases or have been tested in humans. By starting with a treatment that has been tested extensively in humans, researchers can take advantage of the years of research, preclinical trials and early phase safety trials that have already been conducted on these drugs to move quickly into human patients.”

Link: https://www.massgeneral.org/news/cor...us/vaccine-faq

Please quote it in it's entirety:

How have clinical trials for COVID-19 been moving so quickly?
In the interest of time for COVID-19, instead of searching for a new treatment, scientists have opted to test treatments that have already been approved for other diseases or have been tested in humans. Some of the first medications to be tested were remdesivir and hydroxychloroquine, two antiviral medications that were developed for Ebola and malaria, respectively.

By starting with a treatment that has been tested extensively in humans, researchers can take advantage of the years of research, preclinical trials and early phase safety trials that have already been conducted on these drugs to move quickly into human patients.
While the results from these early clinical trials have generated lots of media attention and it’s understandable that people are eager for good news—it’s important to look past the headlines and into the details of the trial itself.

This does not talk about mRNA based vaccination. It talks about treatments for the disease. Indeed, they did experiment with known treatments for other illnesses.

Q. What is Mass General doing to develop a treatment or vaccine for COVID-19?
A: A team from the Vaccine and Immunotherapy Center (VIC) is using a VaxCelerate platform that was designed to quickly develop vaccines in response to emerging infectious diseases to test new vaccine strategies. Mass General is also collaborating with Mass Eye and Ear to test a new gene-therapy based vaccine, and the Ragon Institute of MGH, MIT and Harvard is developing a vaccine candidate with support from the Massachusetts Consortium on Pathogen Readiness.

Even your own article admits that the gene-therapy based vaccine is a new approach.

Keep in mind: I am not bashing the technology or anything.
I sincerely hope that vaccines like that work, because they may open up further possibilities beyond SARS-CoV-2.

I'm merely distrustful of the current, panic driven "ad-hoc" approach, riddled with shortcuts in the testing process.

[Shadowferal]

Look at it this way; what happens if one of these vaccines prove to be a failure in some way? Think of the repercussions for the pharmaceutical company in question. It's in their best interest to keep "you" alive and healthy.

[Granyala]

Look at it this way; what happens if one of these vaccines prove to be a failure in some way? Think of the repercussions for the pharmaceutical company in question. It's in their best interest to keep "you" alive and healthy.

Alive: yes. Healthy: God no.
Enough evidence to the contrary, this wouldn't be the first scandal involving big pharma.

[Granyala]

Here’s another article, if you’re still paranoid:

Link: https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/30/...ccine-so-fast/

The article just re-states what I have been saying: production of mRNA based vaccines is a new technological process. *shrug*

Has nothing to do with paranoia at all. I'm open for it to be awesome but I am also aware that it could be horrible.
Right now: only more trials, larger sample sizes and time will tell.

[Shadowferal]

Considering age and personal issues I can understand the caution.
I've said it before that I'd be willing to give it a go myself as a test subject were such testing nearby.
At this point however we're all about to find out. (Odds are good)

[Corvus]

So not only has Australia effectively eliminated the virus but as of today we are no longer in a recession either.

Turns out aggressive lockdowns that aren't half-arsed while providing generous relief to your citizens works.

[Wezmon]

So not only has Australia effectively eliminated the virus but as of today we are no longer in a recession either.

Turns out aggressive lockdowns that aren't half-arsed while providing generous relief to your citizens works.

Not a comment on lockdowns (I'm for them if well thought out), and looks like Australia did a good job overall, but you have to remember recession is defined as 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth and so not the best tool to see an overall picture.

All countries will exit recession this quarter as the downturn was so big, that any form of growth on that will be enough. Extreme example if GDP dropped 1% Q1, 50%Q2 (lockdown) and then goes back up 1% Q3 (and so is still down 50% overall) it will technically no longer be a recession.

[Yunru]

Britan is now pushing a badly tested CCP virus vaccine created by Pfizer (wich is known for corruption and other stuff).

Take at your own risk.

https://vaccineimpact.com/2020/crimi...-within-weeks/
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/pfiz...ory?id=8477617
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pfizer-...ployee-claims/

[postman1782]

Britan is now pushing a badly tested CCP virus vaccine created by Pfizer (wich is known for corruption and other stuff).

Take at your own risk.

https://vaccineimpact.com/2020/crimi...-within-weeks/
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/pfiz...ory?id=8477617
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pfizer-...ployee-claims/

So, antivaxxer bullshit? Pass.

[Forogil]

Britan is now pushing a badly tested CCP virus vaccine created by Pfizer (wich is known for corruption and other stuff).

So many errors in one sentence.

It's not a CCP virus, the virus is called Sars-Cov-2 and the disease Covid-19, and it was first discovered in China; although it's a bit unclear if it originated there.
The vaccine was not created by Pfizer, but primarily by BioNTech in Germany; and I don't see how Pfizer pushing other drugs too much in the US has any relevance for this vaccine.

There might be risks - but for people 70+ the advantages seem to outweigh the potential disadvantages.

[PhaelixWW]

So not only has Australia effectively eliminated the virus but as of today we are no longer in a recession either.

Turns out aggressive lockdowns that aren't half-arsed while providing generous relief to your citizens works.

Just a bit of devil's advocate here, but Australia has an easier time preventing incoming vectors than most other countries with many more points of entry.

That's not the diminish what you've accomplished, but it's not a directly translatable situation.

[Yunru]

So many errors in one sentence.

It's not a CCP virus, the virus is called Sars-Cov-2 and the disease Covid-19, and it was first discovered in China; although it's a bit unclear if it originated there.
The vaccine was not created by Pfizer, but primarily by BioNTech in Germany; and I don't see how Pfizer pushing other drugs too much in the US has any relevance for this vaccine.

There might be risks - but for people 70+ the advantages seem to outweigh the potential disadvantages.

CCPvirus -- China communits party virus (yeah i call it like this because it sounds the most accurate, since the goverment spread it on purpose to other countrys, when they could easy use their power to stop all travel).

Anyway its to soon to see what the vaccine will do to british people. So keep a eye on it. Personaly i would prefer to see one that is 99% sure.

[Edge-]

CCPvirus -- China communits party virus (yeah i call it like this because it sounds the most accurate, since the goverment spread it on purpose to other countrys, when they could easy use their power to stop all travel).

Other countries could have used their power to stop travel too.

And there's no evidence that it was created or spread intentionally, and every investigation I've seen thus far comes to that same conclusion. Stop spreading this xenophobic nonsense. The CCP is garbage. What they're doing to many of their people is garbage. That doesn't mean they're behind the intentional spread of a virus that harmed their own economy as well. Why on earth release a virus that's going to disrupt their own economy both on the front and back ends of this?

Anyway its to soon to see what the vaccine will do to british people. So keep a eye on it. Personaly i would prefer to see one that is 99% sure.

It will likely do the same thing it did to the people who went through the vaccine trials.

[Granyala]

Anyway its to soon to see what the vaccine will do to british people. So keep a eye on it. Personaly i would prefer to see one that is 99% sure.

If the vaccine is 99% safe it would actually be more dangerous than the virus to younger age groups lol.
You can try again with 99.9% safety.