Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[DarkAmbient]

As someone considered to be incredibly "at risk" and has been vaccinated for a few months now with the only side effect being a vaguely sore arm for a day after each injection... just get the fucking vaccine.

I'm still waiting for the Pfizer, as too many with my illness are suffering pretty bad after effects from the AZ. Only problem is I can't book for a specific vaccine, so I have to rely on local notices of availability.

[Shadowferal]

But what if everyone suddenly turn into zombies, like in the movies, after an arbitrary amount of time has passed?

I've been assured that the "Umbrella Corp" is in no way involved with the currently available vaccines."
So it's all good!

[Forogil]

Over 3bn shots have been given worldwide. A third of a billion in the US alone. Anyone claiming we don’t have enough data on safety isn’t understanding the basics of the situation.

My point is that those are different vaccines, so you cannot count all of the 3bn shots when discussing safety in the US, as most of the 3bn haven't been authorized by the FDA AFAIK.

As we have seen different vaccines can cause different side-effects, and it's not only a matter of the vaccines themselves but also about the production - and both Russia and China lack a bit of transparency which raises doubts.

We do know that some of the vaccines (the viral vector ones) have serious side-effects, and if you are a "young" healthy (and woman) the risk of dying of the vaccine is somewhat similar to the risk of dying of the virus - and you might consider alternatives.
We don't fully know if there's something similar for inactivated viruses, although inactivated viruses are normally fairly safe. FDA and EMA haven't "approved" any, but WHO have.

It is unlikely - but possible - that there are some bad long-term effect, but the risk of the disease is larger - and that's why the vaccines are authorized at the moment: the emergency use authorization in the US is valid during the pandemic, and conditional marketing approval by EMA valid for one year.

Note that most of us see the vaccines as sort of approved by the FDA, but the FDA think differently and don't consider the vaccines as approved, but writes (and similarly for other vaccines):

The Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine has not undergone the same type of review as an FDA-approved or cleared product. FDA may issue an EUA when certain criteria are met, which includes that there are no adequate, approved, and available alternatives. In addition, the FDA decision is based on the totality of scientific evidence available showing that the product may be effective to prevent COVID-19 during the COVID-19 pandemic and that the known and potential benefits of the product outweigh the known and potential risks of the product. All of these criteria must be met to
allow for the product to be used during the COVID-19 pandemic.

The EUA for the Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine is in effect for the duration of the COVID-19 declaration justifying emergency use of these products, unless terminated or revoked (after which the products may no longer be used)

[Krakan]

The largest test in the history of the planet has been performed. What more do you need?

The results of that test... I swear some people treat science like its waagh power in 40k.

Having massive amounts of people take a vaccine that isn't fully tested doesn't confirm or refute if it is safe or not.

I would argue that if you are not in a at risk category you may want to consider waiting for proper clinical trials to take place.

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Over 3bn shots have been given worldwide. A third of a billion in the US alone. Anyone claiming we don’t have enough data on safety isn’t understanding the basics of the situation.

I think you are confusing science with a shared belief structure like religion rather then imperial gathering of data and the scientific method...

[Forogil]

And the 330M+ doses administered in the US mean fuck all?

They obviously mean something, and are very likely very beneficial.

The vaccines will be re-evaluated at some time, when pandemic is over or possibly earlier, and based on those 330M+ doses and the ongoing phase III trials those vaccines will likely be approved by the FDA - but they aren't yet, according to FDA. Other vaccines that are used elsewhere might neither be emergency use authorized nor approved, in particular the AstraZeneca vaccine has had an uphill struggle in the US.

Similarly EMA's conditional market authorization expires after a year, and EMA expects more data.

For the EU it's even more complicated - EU is both working to somewhat accept the Indian-made AstraZeneca vaccine (Covishield - the usual one is called Vaxzevria), suing AstraZeneca to get doses delivered, and simultaneously not ordering additional AstraZeneca vaccine. The first is because EU only views people vaccinated with an EU-approved vaccine as vaccinated; not because EU is planning to use it on their citizens. The last is because other vaccines seem slightly better, and especially are more useful as booster-shots. Some countries have also stopped that vaccine (and the one by Janssen), or restricted it to people old enough.

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Having massive amounts of people take a vaccine that isn't fully tested doesn't confirm or refute if it is safe or not.

Not in itself, but when massive amount of people take the vaccine and very few get serious side-effects it confirms that it is fairly safe.

Even if there is a bad long-term side-effect (which seems unlikely) it wouldn't be odd if a few experienced that earlier, and we haven't seen any such indications.

[Forogil]

They’re being evaluated in real time. The only reason the FDA hasn’t fully approved Pfizer and Moderna is an over abundance of caution in the face of morons who think approval is being rushed. Give it a couple months and they’ll be fully approved.

I wouldn't hold my breath that they are approved before the original ongoing phase III trials are completed, which I believe is in October 2022 for Moderna.

[Edge-]

The largest test in the history of the planet has been performed. What more do you need?

We need data from 20 years post-vaccine! That way we'll have 20 years to complain about lockdowns and masks and mutations and by the time it's ready for the masses the vaccines may no longer be as effecacious against more recent mutations and we'll need to start that whole shebang all over again.

PERMANENT LOCKDOWN AND MASKS TO OWN THE LIBS, YEAH BOI!

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Having massive amounts of people take a vaccine that isn't fully tested doesn't confirm or refute if it is safe or not.

If massive amounts of people receive the vaccine and the data doesn't show any missed side-effects or anything troubling...is it safe? Or does it still need more testing despite this live-environment data?

I would argue that if you are not in a at risk category you may want to consider waiting for proper clinical trials to take place.

We know, and you should be ignored for your nonsense. I'll, again, stick with the professionals who have dedicated their lives to this kind of science, research, and medicine over Random Dude on the Internet #987234987234986239847623984709283749823748971623894712398471234

Talk to your doctor obviously, this isn't medical advice, but maybe the experts might like, have a clue what they're talking about instead of people with no experience or knowledge in this area.

[Zan15]

please someone tell me, as i will ask for the 100th time....

WHAT on earth do people think is going to happen to them as a result of getting the vaccine?

So far i have only heard "you never know" "something can happen"...etc etc etc.
@Krakan ?? @Forogil ?


Everyone fears long term health problems from the vaccination but can't even tell me what they specifically fear, what they think will happen.

Still no one has ever shown a vaccine that caused long term problems in anything but a small sub fraction of people receiving the vaccinations. Just about everything that has ever been "approved" by the FDA has caused long term problems in a tiny fraction of the people who use them. Even over the counter medications kill and have severe side effects.



Oh and you know once its FDA "approved" these morons will come up with yet another excuse not to take it or some other stupid conspiracy.

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Hey btw what could possibly go wrong with people not getting vaccinated for their jobs....


https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/07/0...e-search-site/

At Least 6 Firefighters Test Positive For COVID At Surfside Condo Collapse Search Site

[PhaelixWW]

I wouldn't hold my breath that they are approved before the original ongoing phase III trials are completed, which I believe is in October 2022 for Moderna.

Frankly, you can think whatever you want to think.

CNBC: What full FDA approval could mean for Covid vaccines

Standard vaccine reviews generally take several months to a year or more to determine whether it is safe and effective for use in the general public. But due to the pandemic, which has killed nearly 600,000 Americans, the FDA permitted the use of the shots under an EUA.

In a public health emergency, the manufacturing and approval of vaccines can be streamlined through emergency authorizations. Former Health Secretary Alex Azar declared a public health emergency on Jan. 31, 2020. The health emergency has been renewed several times, most recently in late April. The FDA allowed the use of the shots with just two months of safety data under an EUA. It’s not the same as a Biologic License Application, or a request for full approval, which requires at least six months of data.

The FDA approval process is likely to take months. There are multiple decisions along the way, including negotiations with the companies about what goes on the product label and how the companies can advertise the shots, Califf said.

White House chief medical advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci told CNN last month that U.S. regulators would work “as expeditiously as possible” once the companies submit their applications for full approval.

“When you’re getting a formal approval you have to have a certain amount of time just observing predominantly the safety, and obviously the safety looks really, really good in well over 140 million people having been vaccinated with at least a single dose,” he said. “I hope they do it quickly, because ... people when they hear it’s still emergency use, they still have a little concern about how far you can go with it.”

It is “highly likely” that the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines will be fully approved by the FDA as early as the second half of this year, said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization’s Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. The shots, he said, have already demonstrated to be safe and highly effective in millions of Americans.

Dr. Archana Chatterjee, another voting member of the agency’s Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee, said she doesn’t expect rare adverse events that may pop up in the data to be a big problem for the vaccines.

The FDA and CDC asked states to temporarily pause the use of another authorized vaccine, from Johnson & Johnson, in April after six women developed a blood clotting disorder. States resumed use of the vaccine 10 days later after a CDC advisory panel concluded the blood clots were very rare and the benefits of the shot outweighed its risks.

Finding rare adverse events post-clinical trials are common, Chatterjee told CNBC. “Sometimes you do find out that when the vaccines are deployed and given to millions of people that very rare adverse events that are associated with the vaccine may emerge that did not occur during clinical trials, even with tens of thousands of people,” she added.

However, Offit said he can’t think of any adverse events from a vaccine that didn’t occur within six weeks of a dose. “There are 200 million doses or so shots that have been distributed so if it’s going to cause a rare side effect, you would know that,” he said.

[Krakan]

We need data from 20 years post-vaccine! That way we'll have 20 years to complain about lockdowns and masks and mutations and by the time it's ready for the masses the vaccines may no longer be as effecacious against more recent mutations and we'll need to start that whole shebang all over again.

PERMANENT LOCKDOWN AND MASKS TO OWN THE LIBS, YEAH BOI!

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If massive amounts of people receive the vaccine and the data doesn't show any missed side-effects or anything troubling...is it safe? Or does it still need more testing despite this live-environment data?



We know, and you should be ignored for your nonsense. I'll, again, stick with the professionals who have dedicated their lives to this kind of science, research, and medicine over Random Dude on the Internet #987234987234986239847623984709283749823748971623894712398471234

Talk to your doctor obviously, this isn't medical advice, but maybe the experts might like, have a clue what they're talking about instead of people with no experience or knowledge in this area.

So what professionals should I listen to? The ones who say they honestly don't know the long term side effects and that it's still in clinical trials or these professionals that seem to not publish anything but you will constantly refer to?

Look I would never suggest not taking the vaccine if you are in a high risk group. I simply see wisdom in holding off to make sure there are not long term side effects not readily apparent. Your response to that seems to be " well nothing bad happened right away!"

I find it bizzare that people who seem to not even have an intro class worth of scientific understanding are those who try to inflate their arguement by screaming science.

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please someone tell me, as i will ask for the 100th time....

WHAT on earth do people think is going to happen to them as a result of getting the vaccine?

So far i have only heard "you never know" "something can happen"...etc etc etc.
@Krakan ?? @Forogil ?


Everyone fears long term health problems from the vaccination but can't even tell me what they specifically fear, what they think will happen.

Still no one has ever shown a vaccine that caused long term problems in anything but a small sub fraction of people receiving the vaccinations. Just about everything that has ever been "approved" by the FDA has caused long term problems in a tiny fraction of the people who use them. Even over the counter medications kill and have severe side effects.



Oh and you know once its FDA "approved" these morons will come up with yet another excuse not to take it or some other stupid conspiracy.

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Hey btw what could possibly go wrong with people not getting vaccinated for their jobs....


https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/07/0...e-search-site/

At Least 6 Firefighters Test Positive For COVID At Surfside Condo Collapse Search Site

I could see it causing immune issues down the line given the new way it works but your asking for people without a medical backround to tell you the possible side effects when the best in the field hold up their hands and say " we don't know yet let us do clinical trials"

You want a hard yes or no answer when no one knows the answer.

[PhaelixWW]

I could see it causing immune issues down the line given the new it works but your asking for people without a medical backround to tell you the possible side effects when the best in the field hold up their hands and say " we don't know yet let us do clinical trials"

The "best in the field" are the ones who developed the vaccines in the first place, and they've applied for full authorization already.

Demonstrably, they believe in the vaccines' safety.

"Continuing to monitor the situation" is just medical due diligence.

[Zan15]

I could see it causing immune issues down the line given the new it works but your asking for people without a medical backround to tell you the possible side effects when the best in the field hold up their hands and say " we don't know yet let us do clinical trials"

You want a hard yes or no answer when no one knows the answer.

So have vaccines ever caused anything on a wide scale like the fears being propagated by anti vaxxers now?

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So what professionals should I listen to? The ones who say they honestly don't know the long term side effects and that it's still in clinical trials or these professionals that seem to not publish anything but you will constantly refer to?

Look I would never suggest not taking the vaccine if you are in a high risk group. I simply see wisdom in holding off to make sure there are not long term side effects not readily apparent. Your response to that seems to be " well nothing bad happened right away!"

I find it bizzare that people who seem to not even have an intro class worth of scientific understanding are those who try to inflate their arguement by screaming science.
.

Everyone is in the high risk group of becoming infected if they have not been vaccinated.

oh great they might survive with no side effects or long term issues, but they might also cause others to NOT/have long term issues.
they might also become a wonderful host for the next variant which will be even worse.
they might even infect first responders at a disaster site.

This is more than just a "ME" problem/decision.


"oh i don't need to support this country in its WW2 efforts because....well i will never die or be impacted by ww2...." Could you imagine if half our country felt this way during ww2.

[Krakan]

So have vaccines ever caused anything on a wide scale like the fears being propagated by anti vaxxers now?

A few though it's been very rare it's ever been made available to the public more military application.. the anthrax vaccine comes to mind. Normally things are not as rushed as this.

[Zan15]

Frankly, you can think whatever you want to think.

CNBC: What full FDA approval could mean for Covid vaccines

Standard vaccine reviews generally take several months to a year or more to determine whether it is safe and effective for use in the general public. But due to the pandemic, which has killed nearly 600,000 Americans, the FDA permitted the use of the shots under an EUA.

and there you have it. When its moved to the front of the line and all the red tape is applied quickly and ripped off just as fast.....you will have the foundations of the next grand anti-vaxxers conspiracy!!!


HOW DID IT GET APPROVED SO FAST!!! FAKE APPROVAL.......bill gates something something....



they will find a bunch of medications and a vaccine that took 2-3-4x as long to get approved and use it as "proof"

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A few though it's been very rare it's ever been made available to the public more military application.. the anthrax vaccine comes to mind. Normally things are not as rushed as this.

by "rushed" you mean pushed to the front of the line and bypassing companies normal product pipeline/product pipeline and plan right? By "rushed" you mean not having to stand in the FDA backlog of approvals right?

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A few though it's been very rare it's ever been made available to the public more military application.. the anthrax vaccine comes to mind. Normally things are not as rushed as this.

Oh Mr Anthrax what have you caused besides the 1 in 100,000 adverse allergic severe side effects?

https://www.warrelatedillness.va.gov...ts/anthrax.pdf

Severe Side Effects In very rare instances (less than one in 100,000 doses have a serious allergic reaction. Signs of a serious allergic reaction can include difficulty
breathing, weakness, hoarseness or wheezing, a fast heart beat, swelling of the lips and throat. Other rare serious events involving the skin and nervous system have
been reported, but a direct vaccine cause has yet to be proven

LOL, but if you read a bunch of the lawyers and anti vax sites they claim the same thing they claim now against covid. even Lupus (House would be excited!!!).

It basically followed the same patter of bullshit you are seeing with COVID vaccine.


So anything else besides the anthrax comes to mind?

[Krakan]

Standard vaccine reviews generally take several months to a year or more to determine whether it is safe and effective for use in the general public. But due to the pandemic, which has killed nearly 600,000 Americans, the FDA permitted the use of the shots under an EUA.

and there you have it. When its moved to the front of the line and all the red tape is applied quickly and ripped off just as fast.....you will have the foundations of the next grand anti-vaxxers conspiracy!!!


HOW DID IT GET APPROVED SO FAST!!! FAKE APPROVAL.......bill gates something something....



they will find a bunch of medications and a vaccine that took 2-3-4x as long to get approved and use it as "proof"

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by "rushed" you mean pushed to the front of the line and bypassing companies normal product pipeline/product pipeline and plan right? By "rushed" you mean not having to stand in the FDA backlog of approvals right?

Why does it bother you to such an extent to know that some people who are not in high risk groups are taking a wait and see approach rather then rushing out to get it?

Even you copy paste shows you the weakness to your argument but your treating it as a trump card.

I'm not on the side of the street screaming that it's some grand conspiracy I'm simply saying that if your young and the risk is small simply weigh your options before blindly making a choice that could have unforeseen repercussions.

I realized you added more to your post but given its tone I don't think your actively reading anything I say but rather tossing out barbs at a strawman you created.

[Zan15]

Why does it bother you to such an extent to know that some people who are not in high risk groups are taking a wait and see approach rather then rushing out to get it?

Because they can spread it to the unsuspected, the high risk, first responders, nurses, doctors, etc etc. If they are not getting the vaccine, then most likely they are also not taking any other precautions or even care if they will go and infect half the people they run into. If they finally get it then they put a whole medical system at risk all because they could not just take the shot and reduce that risk greatly.


If they wanted to take a wait and see approach while taking all other precautions and isolating themselves from others then by all means i approve them not taking it. But those are not the people we are talking about and you know it.

Because they can cause another variant to spread that puts even more people into the high risk category.

Because god forbid i need medical care and the facilities are once again full of sick to the point of almost collapse, i would like to be able to get medical care.

I don't or can afford another economic shutdown.

Do you need more reasons?

Even you copy paste shows you the weakness to your argument but your treating it as a trump card.

I'm not on the side of the street screaming that it's some grand conspiracy I'm simply saying that if your young and the risk is small simply weigh your options before blindly making a choice that could have unforeseen repercussions.

I realized you added more to your post but given its tone I don't think your actively reading anything I say but rather tossing out barbs at a strawman you created.

Again the risk you are talking about just covers your own risk not your risk to others.

As far as tossing out stuff, did you even bother to read about the anthrax vaccination and the bullshit around it? You are hardly the first person who's brought it up in this 20k post thread. Its nothing new to debunk.


Oh and if i had an anti-vaxxer bingo card....you would have basically called out enough "key phrases" that i would have won 3 times already.

[beanman12345]

If you were on the street saying this boring fictional nonsense none of us would have to deal with it. So you just coming into this thread and posting nothing but the same boring fictional crap every time someone takes a nice dump all over all the stupid anti covid vaxxers. There is nothing in his tone btw, you know it, I know it, i know you want there to be, but your just not good at this. Here's a tip, don't be so obvious.


Anyways, back on topic, got my 2nd shot 2 months ago, still not a zombie.

[Forogil]

please someone tell me, as i will ask for the 100th time....

WHAT on earth do people think is going to happen to them as a result of getting the vaccine?

So far i have only heard "you never know" "something can happen"...etc etc etc.
@Krakan ?? @Forogil ?

I'm not saying that something is likely to occur, just that it might - but more importantly that the benefit of the vaccine avoiding the disease outweigh the risk of possible side-effects (possibly with the exception of viral vector vaccines for young healthy persons - but get a different vaccine in that case).

However, biological systems are messy, and I wouldn't have guessed that the viral vector vaccines would cause blood-clots either.

Additionally if we want to discuss the 3bn doses world-wide, we have to note that most of the vaccines given for covid-19 world-wide aren't FDA-"approved", which indicates that there are doubts. Many producers haven't even tried (partially because they don't have good enough data and partially because they don't have spare production capacity), but at least AstraZeneca have tried and so far failed to get approval. However, it is approved by EMA - but suspended for many in many European countries.

Or simply put: experts disagree whether some of the vaccines are safe enough. In that case - get the other ones.

[PhaelixWW]

However, biological systems are messy, and I wouldn't have guessed that the viral vector vaccines would cause blood-clots either.

But let's be fair here. Even with the reports of blood clots, those vaccines are still very safe and are definitely more beneficial than not. They're just not as safe as other approved vaccines.

It's not really fair to suggest that just because countries have put a hold on AstraZeneca's vaccine that scientists consider it "unsafe". It just indicates that there are better options.

[Orange Joe]

So what professionals should I listen to? The ones who say they honestly don't know the long term side effects and that it's still in clinical trials or these professionals that seem to not publish anything but you will constantly refer to?

Look I would never suggest not taking the vaccine if you are in a high risk group. I simply see wisdom in holding off to make sure there are not long term side effects not readily apparent. Your response to that seems to be " well nothing bad happened right away!"

I find it bizzare that people who seem to not even have an intro class worth of scientific understanding are those who try to inflate their arguement by screaming science.

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I could see it causing immune issues down the line given the new way it works but your asking for people without a medical backround to tell you the possible side effects when the best in the field hold up their hands and say " we don't know yet let us do clinical trials"

You want a hard yes or no answer when no one knows the answer.

Just curious. Can you show who these people are and what their professional background is?