Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Breccia]

USA breaks COVID case record again.

"Which source are you citing?"

Oh, none, this is a prediction, but any second we'll find out. To me, it doesn't even matter. I prefer the 7-day rolling average anyhow and it would take actual criminal fraud for the repord for today to be less than 7 days ago, considering there'll be some spillover from New Year's Eve and Day.

From the last 24 hours, NY breaks COVID case record, Florida breaks COVID case record, North Carolina's not looking so hot, and Ottowa, PR and England somehow all ended up in my news feed when I wasn't looking for those.

I'm too depressed to look, but I'm just going to say "every state broke its case record in the last week" and just assume I'm right. The news sucks, but hospitalizations and deaths are still not the same proportion as when people got together to spread the illness on purpose last year. In fact:

The CDC's most recent 7-day deaths average is 1,100 or so. Yep, it's good news that it's over a thousand.

Exactly one year ago, it was 2,920.

Using the cases/day and deaths/day it seems that COVID is killing far fewer people per case and that's what a year of medical science will buy you. Also I'm seeing reports sugesting omicron doesn't fuck up your lungs as badly, which would be good news too.

EDIT: Always hit "refresh" before posting. Texas is overwhelmed and asking for federal aid. Well, maybe "asking" is generous.

The State of Texas is urging the federal government to step up in this fight and provide the resources necessary to help protect Texans. Testing sites, additional medical staff, and continued shipments of therapeutics from the federal government will help us continue to save lives and mitigate the spread of COVID-19

-- Gov. Abbott

Yes, he also blamed Biden, citing Biden cutting monoclonal antibodies. Florida did the same thing a few days ago. Because it's so much easier to blame someone else when you fail to take the vaccine, wear a mask, or socially distance. Also they don't work.

I have a hard time expressing sympathy towards someone who got drunk, wrecked their car, and lost their licence, when they complain the bus costs too much.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, I also made a spreadsheet of the top 10 and bottom 10 states by "fully vaccinated" rate. See if you catch anything interesting:

[Zan15]

EDIT: Always hit "refresh" before posting. Texas is overwhelmed and asking for federal aid. Well, maybe "asking" is generous.


-- Gov. Abbott

Yes, he also blamed Biden, citing Biden cutting monoclonal antibodies. Florida did the same thing a few days ago. Because it's so much easier to blame someone else when you fail to take the vaccine, wear a mask, or socially distance. Also they don't work.

I have a hard time expressing sympathy towards someone who got drunk, wrecked their car, and lost their licence, when they complain the bus costs too much.

So we've now gone from

"the federal govt is overstepping its authority and should let the states decide how to run their states"

to

"mommy...daddy.... please come save us"


sigh we really are at a low point aren't we.

[Breccia]

"mommy...daddy.... please come save us"

Well, no. Texas and Fuck Florida are asking for Biden to stop holding back tests and monoclonals.

First, ain't nobody got tests. It sucks that there aren't testing kits readily available. But if Texas and Florida think they're being singled out, they're just objectively wrong.

Second, the real issue is that Texas and Fuck Florida are excusing their lack of/ban of mandates with "just take horse dewormer" okay no "just take monoclonal antibodies" and blame Biden for the shortage. Now I can't find where Biden flat-out cut them off, apparently in September he restricted their distribution so we wouldn't have a run on the market and completely run out.

Which, yes, ivermectin, Biden was correct. Texas and Florida refused an ounce of prevention and no longer have a pound of cure.

By the way, a monoclonal treatment costs about $2,100 and if I remember correctly aren't just a pill you pop and you're fine, I think they're an IV you get in the hospital over several days. I get using those when you've become sick and meet the guidelines. I do not get relying on those when the vaccine is sitting right there. Also we've heard multiple reports that getting breakthrough case is generally milder, meaning you shouldn't need such a treatment. "Should" not need, of course.

So it's what you said, but maybe not the way you said it. It's not "come save us from our sick voters and lack of budget". It's more "come save us because we handwaved COVID and don't have the alternative treatment we pushed instead of social distancing, masking up, vaccines and mandates thereof". If that's what you were going for, then we agree.

Why didn't y'all just wear the damn mask?

[Forogil]

Oh, I also made a spreadsheet of the top 10 and bottom 10 states by "fully vaccinated" rate. See if you catch anything interesting:

Clearly Georgia has the wrong color, proving that the election was stolen! /s

But on a more serious note, that was predictable as we know that on an individual level voting for Trump is the strongest predictor of not taking the vaccine; even stronger than party and religious identity.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...gainst-the-jab

[Rasulis]

Which, yes, ivermectin, Biden was correct. Texas and Florida refused an ounce of prevention and no longer have a pound of cure.

By the way, a monoclonal treatment costs about $2,100 and if I remember correctly aren't just a pill you pop and you're fine, I think they're an IV you get in the hospital over several days. I get using those when you've become sick and meet the guidelines. I do not get relying on those when the vaccine is sitting right there. Also we've heard multiple reports that getting breakthrough case is generally milder, meaning you shouldn't need such a treatment. "Should" not need, of course.

Hospitalization and mortality per case for Omicron is much lower than Delta. However, the damn thing is so infectious that the sheer number of cases still lead to high rate of hospitalization. We are not seeing the mortality increasing YET.

Out of the three, monoclonal antibody treatments from Regeneron and Eli Lilly have completely lost their neutralizing effect against the Omicron. The effectiveness of GlaxoSmithKline and Vir Biotech's Covid-19 drug sotrovimab to prevent hospitalization is reduced three-fold against Omicron compared to Delta. Not to mention that it is in short supply.

In the end, the vaccines are still the best bet against hospitalization and death.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Have we gotten to the point where we can send anti-vaxxers to some isolated island and keep them there? Asking for a nurse friend who is tired of this shit.

[Breccia]

Hospitalization and mortality per case for Omicron is much lower than Delta. However, the damn thing is so infectious that the sheer number of cases still lead to high rate of hospitalization. We are not seeing the mortality increasing YET.

...yeah...I mean, a thousand dead Americans per day is still quite bad. I'm honestly depressed that it's a number I'm willing to accept.

[Bigbazz]

Have we gotten to the point where we can send anti-vaxxers to some isolated island and keep them there? Asking for a nurse friend who is tired of this shit.

That's not going to stop you catching COVID, it's also not going to stop them gaining robust natural immunity on their little island. I think it's pretty barbaric to even consider the idea of non-consent based health mandates or class based segregation. The worst thing about this is how in order to reduce vaccine hesitency they have used censorship and misdirection to silence scientists and doctors who are transparent about important information or concerns, thereby causing more distrust and more vaccine hesitency.

Most "anti-vaxxers" have had every vaccine in their lives to date, and most of them would have also had their COVID shots or boosters if they didn't read a new story every week about some scientist speaking out and getting immediately cancelled. The most recent one being Dr Robert Malone, who invented the MRNA technology, a world leading expert who got "cancelled" with a paid for hit piece article written by a journalist with no education or background in medicine.

By all means kids go get your vaccines, almost everyone has. But if you're a person who believes in forced mandatory medication and class based segregation then maybe you should all go sail out to an island and live together. Thankfully my government, as crazy as they are agrees with me.

Hospitalization and mortality per case for Omicron is much lower than Delta. However, the damn thing is so infectious that the sheer number of cases still lead to high rate of hospitalization

Seems more likely the hospitalised patients are actually infected with Delta, it didn't just disappear out of sight just because Omicron came around. I had Omicron over christmas, sore throat for a couple days and general cold symptoms, very mild. The original COVID left me with brain fog for months, I was coughing for 3 months (this is back in early 2020).



This look at a pre-print paper from South Africa seems positive though if it turns out to be true.

[Lenonis]

I think it's pretty barbaric to even consider the idea of non-consent based health mandates or class based segregation.

clutch those pearls harder. You know full well that'll never happen. The antivaxxers you so love are making this last longer and be worse than it needs to be but by all means go white knight for them.

The worst thing about this is how in order to reduce vaccine hesitency they have used censorship and misdirection to silence scientists and doctors who are transparent about important information or concerns, thereby causing more distrust and more vaccine hesitency.

No. Full stop. These champions of yours that you are defending are lying. Period.

Most "anti-vaxxers" have had every vaccine in their lives to date,

except now they are against those vaccines too. So now what?

and most of them would have also had their COVID shots or boosters if they didn't read a new story every week about some scientist speaking out and getting immediately cancelled.

you mean they sought out and believed blatant lies and misinformation. And ignored all the truthful information out there.

The most recent one being Dr Robert Malone, who invented the MRNA technology, a world leading expert who got "cancelled" with a paid for hit piece article written by a journalist with no education or background in medicine.

to use the mating call of your people do your research

We don't need antivaxxer apologists here. Shoo.

[PhaelixWW]

That's not going to stop you catching COVID

But it might slow down the spread enough to not overwhelm hospitals as much.

it's also not going to stop them gaining robust natural immunity on their little island.

Those who survive, at least.

I think it's pretty barbaric to even consider the idea of non-consent based health mandates

Non-consent-based health mandates are already a thing, and have been for a loooooong time.

or class based segregation.

Lolwut?!? Anti-vaxxers are not a "class". It's a decision. And we segregate people based on their poor decision-making ability all the time... *cough* prison *cough*...

The worst thing about this is how in order to reduce vaccine hesitency they have used censorship and misdirection to silence scientists and doctors who are transparent about important information or concerns, thereby causing more distrust and more vaccine hesitency.

No, the worst thing about this is when people are punished for spreading misinformation, people who should know better but somehow don't try to call it "censorship" and "silencing". The reality is that these people are free to say what they want, but the platforms they use to spread that message are likewise free to not allow it on their platform.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Snip.

Anti-vaxxers are continuing to get people sick/killed because they deny any logic, science or truth about vaccinations. I don't mean people with actual reasons not to get the vaccine like immune system problems or such. I mean the idiots with bullshit claims.

Rounding them up and putting them in isolation for a couple of months would do the world a favor. The few that survive might have herd immunity, sure. But that won't be too many. And y'know what? This is a freakin' pandemic. If you aren't willing to make a little sacrifice like taking a scientifically-verified working vaccine to help deal with Covid, you're a selfish bastard who shouldn't be causing harm to the rest of us.

If someone had small pox, I sure as hell wouldn't want them hanging around the rest of us, spreading it and getting people killed because they think a vaccine is BS.

[Bigbazz]

to use the mating call of your people do your research

We don't need antivaxxer apologists here. Shoo.

That article is exactly what I was talking about, one of the worlds leading experts on the topic and the guy who invented MRNA is having a hit piece written about him by a social justice writer with no medical backround that was also paid for - "The Atlantic’s COVID-19 coverage is supported by grants from the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation."

You're more willing to believe a hit piece intended to tarnish someones reputation than to actually do your own research on the topic. How in any way is a biased and paid for article something you're willing to use in good conscience to discredit a world leading scientist as the basis of your opinion on a topic?

No. Full stop. These champions of yours that you are defending are lying. Period.

Lying about what? They are citing scientific studies. That Robert Malone is president of the "Global Covid Summit", an organisation of 16,000 doctors and scientists working on the pandemic. You're speaking about it as if he's some crazy whacky anti-vaxx doctor, which I guess makes it a lot easy to demonise. These scientists are not just coming out saying whacky stuff, they are saying "look at this paper, look at this data".

Rounding them up and putting them in isolation for a couple of months would do the world a favor. The few that survive might have herd immunity, sure.

But that won't be too many.

The few that survive? Despite that not happening for the year we lived without any vaccinations? The statistics are out there, by and large it's older people, overweight people and those with serious comorbidities that are hospitalised and/or die. The survival rate for COVID in the general population is extremely high.

Why would you say something so awful and false? This thread is full of the pot calling the kettle black.

[PACOX]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59848160

Damn not Antarctica.

[Bigbazz]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59848160

Damn not Antarctica.

The r rate on Omicron is so high that nobody is escaping it, and since many people carry it without symptoms it doesn't take much.

[PhaelixWW]

That article is exactly what I was talking about, one of the worlds leading experts on the topic and the guy who invented MRNA is having a hit piece written about him by a social justice writer with no medical backround that was also paid for - "The Atlantic’s COVID-19 coverage is supported by grants from the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation."

Have a side of conspiracy theory with your conspiracy theory.

A few notes, though:

• The guy didn't invent mRNA.
• All articles are paid for; writers don't write them for free.
• Media companies get all kinds of funding. None of it comes with "only print the articles that favor my cause" strings attached.
• The whole "these philanthropic gestures are just a cover for evil" conspiracy theories are soooo played out.

You're more willing to believe a hit piece intended to tarnish someones reputation than to actually do your own research on the topic.

No, I'm willing to listen to the consensus of scientists who say that he's wrong. You, on the other hand, are like that guy who hears the "9 out of 10 doctors agree!" line and then says, "wait, I choose to believe the 1 doctor who disagrees, because he must be on to something!"

[Bigbazz]

Have a side of conspiracy theory with your conspiracy theory.

A few notes, though:

• The guy didn't invent mRNA.
• All articles are paid for; writers don't write them for free.
• Media companies get all kinds of funding. None of it comes with "only print the articles that favor my cause" strings attached.
• The whole "these philanthropic gestures are just a cover for evil" conspiracy theories are soooo played out.

No, I'm willing to listen to the consensus of scientists who say that he's wrong. You, on the other hand, are like that guy who hears the "9 out of 10 doctors agree!" line and then says, "wait, I choose to believe the 1 doctor who disagrees, because he must be on to something!"

What are they agreeing or disagreeing with, you're not able to tell me are you? Exactly what are these scientists disagreeing with him on? The only thing you've produced is an opinion piece funded by a pharma company and written by someone with no medical background (though fantastic at leaving out enough context in a story to paint a damning picture). This is my issue here. Every time I see a cancelled scientist I look into it and it's usually some big name guy who isn't on the payroll pointing out something from published scientific studies, not making some wild unsubstantiated claim.

And he didn't invent MRNA vaccines?

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w

When you look at any information about MRNA vaccines you see his name come up. In this Nature article it comes up in the first sentence

In late 1987, Robert Malone performed a landmark experiment. He mixed strands of messenger RNA with droplets of fat, to create a kind of molecular stew. Human cells bathed in this genetic gumbo absorbed the mRNA, and began producing proteins from it

You're actually basing your post on the opinions and claims of a journalist who was paid to write a hit piece, and that alone it seems? I mean by all means prove me otherwise.

All articles are paid for; writers don't write them for free.

You don't see any conflict of interests or issues of bias here at all, or any issue with the fact that the journalist has no background in medicine or science? And you're also not going to look at other sources to confirm/deny this information?

[Breccia]

a hit piece

Name one thing the article gets factually wrong. Also, I think you have "hit piece" confused with "article that publishes factually correct information I just didn't want to see".

Bear in mind, you're defending someone who got the vaccine after getting COVID, then complained when his long-term symptoms didn't get any better. You're also defending someone who went on Joe Rogan (oh yeah, that earlier article was from Bannon's show) to say the US has entered mass psychosis, just like Nazi Germany. He's been permanently banned from Twitter, too, that happened four days ago. And he was banned from the New England Journal of Medicine. Yes, I am using "banned by the NEJM" to fucking curbstomp your "journalist has no medical background" mewling. The author is a science writer, and a prolific one, so your mewling wasn't even that mewl.

Related: YouTube yanked the Joe Rogan interview I just cited.

One of Malone's biggest claims is that spike protein from the mRNA in vaccines causes permanent organ damage in children. There is no study that backs this up. Even if there was, I would immediately point to the permanent lung and/or heart damage caused by COVID itself, on which there are plenty of studies. But I only need one.

Also, he didn't invent mRNA. That same article you cited, says it was a collaborative effort. So do most sources that aren't Robert Malone. He was involved, but he didn't "invent" it, nor was he the first to discuss the topic. "His name is on every article about it" does not mean "he invented it". After all, Dr. Katalin Karikó and Dr. Drew Weissman come up just as often, if not more often. And they outnumber Malone, which means I win.

This man might have been a big part of the development process 40 years ago, but he is now in the minority. Medical experts refute him. Public media refutes him. The results of a full year of watching how vaccines work refutes him.

And a final note -- before you go on about "the article was paid for" when talking about professional journalists, whoops tautolgy -- how much was he paid to be on Joe Rogan? How much was he paid to be on Steve Bannon? Because if you're going to handwave "hit piece" I get to handwave "paid to be on Bannon and Rogan" and you have no choice but to accept it.

Malone cannot back his claims, and you cannot back his. Or yours.

[Bigbazz]

to fucking curbstomp your "journalist has no medical background" mewling. The author is a science writer, and a prolific one, so your mewling wasn't even that mewl

He's not a Science journalist, he's a social science journalist. There is an absolutely grand canyon sized difference. And my issue with the article is the cherrypicking of quotes out of context for effect, from the first paragraph. Everything is written with an angle, with enough details left out to really paint a picture. The article is predatory and is purely an attack on the person in a general sense.

The problem is when you see the other side of the table you hear a reasonable, calm, collected and articulate person able to explain things in detail, which then get further cherrypicked by opinion pieces. When you remove the context from some of those situations you're portraying a raving lunatic, but in the full context of the discussion you find someone discussing ideas and only making statements on actual scientific studies and data.

So if you're attempting to slag someone off without giving them a fair deal you paint a picture by framing things in a certain way. And that's all I've seen here. Your post is no different "He didn't invent MRNA, him and his workmates did".. It's like wooah, that there is a big difference. He's not claiming he did it alone and neither am I, which is what you're now implying. and quite honestly the fact you bring this up loops around to this being more about an attempt to discredit than any attempt to find where the truth is.

[Zan15]

By all means kids go get your vaccines, almost everyone has. But if you're a person who believes in forced mandatory medication and class based segregation then maybe you should all go sail out to an island and live together. Thankfully my government, as crazy as they are agrees with me.

.

Sorry but the united states has had forced madiatory vaccinations for decades upon decades now. Anti vaxxers have somehow now all of a sudden made it an real issue.
Only ones who were not forced were then however forced to be on their own little island and home school their kids and keep their infected brood away from everyone else.

Seems MY govt, thankfully agrees with the majority of us.

[PhaelixWW]

What are they agreeing or disagreeing with, you're not able to tell me are you? Exactly what are these scientists disagreeing with him on?

FALSE: Conspiracy theory that COVID-19 vaccines’ spike proteins are ‘cytotoxic’ debunked by experts

The only thing you've produced is an opinion piece funded by a pharma company

The article was not directly funded by a pharma company. That's just your conspiracy theory.

And he didn't invent MRNA vaccines?

Well, you said that he invented mRNA, which he obviously didn't. But also, he didn't invent mRNA vaccines:

Factcheck: The development of mRNA vaccines was a collaborative effort; Robert Malone contributed to their development, but he is not their inventor

Claim: “Dr. Malone is the inventor of mRNA vaccines”

Verdict: Inaccurate

Details: The development of the mRNA vaccines is due to the work of hundreds of researchers, one of which is Robert Malone. Together with his co-authors, Malone contributed early evidence that mRNA could be delivered and produce proteins in cells. However, because crucial hurdles to develop the mRNA vaccines were resolved by many researchers , Malone cannot be claimed the inventor of this vaccine technology.

So... yeah.

You're actually basing your post on the opinions and claims of a journalist who was paid to write a hit piece, and that alone it seems?

No, actually, I'm basing it on the collected expertise of the medical community who disagree with him. And it wasn't a "hit piece", and it wasn't paid for by someone who wanted him silenced.

I mean by all means prove me otherwise.

Oh, please, I know better than to expect you to believe the proof that's being handed directly to you. That's not how people who believe these kinds of conspiracy theories operate. That doesn't mean I won't put this out there for everyone else reading it to have the facts.

You don't see any conflict of interests or issues of bias here at all, or any issue with the fact that the journalist has no background in medicine or science? And you're also not going to look at other sources to confirm/deny this information?

Journalists rarely have expertise in the topics they cover, because they're journalists, not experts in the field.

That's why they're generally called investigative journalists and get sources who are experts.