Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Tentim]

For the previous variants it is clear that the vaccine reduce deaths, even the bad Chinese ones, https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination

However, one problem with simple studies and just looking at deaths is that vaccinations have (at least in most countries) been targeted at the ones most at risk - so 65-year olds are more like to have 3 or 4 vaccines doses than the population at large, and still die more often than 20-year olds, since the base risk is thousand times higher. Compensating for that makes it more difficult.

Cant you just argue that those most likely to of died just did so in the first few waves?

I won't lie I'm extremely skeptical of the effectiveness and extremely wary of how quickly it was rubber stamped.

[Edge-]

I won't lie I'm extremely skeptical of the effectiveness and extremely wary of how quickly it was rubber stamped.

Because...?

Do you have data suggesting that the vaccine isn't effective at reducing the severity of covid?

Do you have any evidence or information to suggest impropriety in the approval processes?

[Forogil]

Cant you just argue that those most likely to of died just did so in the first few waves?

No, because we know that most weren't infected before we got vaccines based on sero-prevalance studies.
The link also shows that the death per 100,000 are 20 times lower for the ones that got 2 doses and booster compared to unvaccinated in the US and in Switzerland last December and at least a factor 6 times lower today. The trend is the same regardless of age group, but the factor differs a bit.

Similarly some countries avoided most deaths in the first waves (Denmark, Australia, S. Korea) and their total deaths are much lower than countries that didn't avoid the first wave; so it isn't that people's number were up. And except for Australia those numbers have levelled off - and at least one of those countries have basically zero remaining restrictions.

[Tentim]

No, because we know that most weren't infected before we got vaccines based on sero-prevalance studies.
The link also shows that the death per 100,000 are 20 times lower for the ones that got 2 doses and booster compared to unvaccinated in the US and in Switzerland last December and at least a factor 6 times lower today. The trend is the same regardless of age group, but the factor differs a bit.

Similarly some countries avoided most deaths in the first waves (Denmark, Australia, S. Korea) and their total deaths are much lower than countries that didn't avoid the first wave; so it isn't that people's number were up. And except for Australia those numbers have levelled off - and at least one of those countries have basically zero remaining restrictions.

This wrongly assumes each infected both shows symptoms enough to even know or report they are infected. I am also confused by time lines here. Given the low rate of fatalities and long term injuries what dates are they working with? To the best of my knowledge it was roughly a year before vaccines became available and longer till they were widely distributed.

Is this also including the data on countries that mandated Ivermectin or is it simply test groups?

[Forogil]

This wrongly assumes each infected both shows symptoms enough to even know or report they are infected.

No, it correctly recognizes that few people were infected before a year ago in Denmark, Australia and S. Korea; since they did actually test and had it under control and few people died.

I am also confused by time lines here. Given the low rate of fatalities and long term injuries what dates are they working with? To the best of my knowledge it was roughly a year before vaccines became available and longer till they were widely distributed.

And they managed to keep fatalities down that entire time, and they are all countries with working governments and reliable health-services so the number of fatalities correspond to reality. Australia did struggle a bit, since they were last among western countries in getting the vaccine.

Is this also including the data on countries that mandated Ivermectin or is it simply test groups?

The data are for entire countries, not test-cases.

Regarding governments allowing off-label Ivermectin: the countries that pushed Ivermectin generally have trash performance in handling covid, the list is: Czech (0.38%), Slovakia (0.37%), Mexico (officially 0.26% estimated 0.5%), Peru (0.63%), India (officially 0.03% estimated 0.3%), and the Philippines (officially 0.05% estimated 0.2%).

The percentages are the number of dead as a percentage of the population.

The problem with many countries with poor healthcare and bad governments, is that the official death-numbers miss a lot of people; whereas working countries have them close to each other so that there's no difference - or the estimates are even lower than the official numbers. However, many poor countries also lack the elderly that are most at risk - so the numbers are even worse.

Compared with the US (officially 0.3% - estimated 0.35%), Germany (0.17%), and the countries I listed above Denmark (0.11%), S. Korea (0.047%), and Australia (0.042%).

[Tentim]

No, it correctly recognizes that few people were infected before a year ago in Denmark, Australia and S. Korea; since they did actually test and had it under control and few people died.


And they managed to keep fatalities down that entire time, and they are all countries with working governments and reliable health-services so the number of fatalities correspond to reality. Australia did struggle a bit, since they were last among western countries in getting the vaccine.


The data are for entire countries, not test-cases.

Regarding governments allowing off-label Ivermectin: the countries that pushed Ivermectin generally have trash performance in handling covid, the list is: Czech (0.38%), Slovakia (0.37%), Mexico (officially 0.26% estimated 0.5%), Peru (0.63%), India (officially 0.03% estimated 0.3%), and the Philippines (officially 0.05% estimated 0.2%).

The percentages are the number of dead as a percentage of the population.

The problem with many countries with poor healthcare and bad governments, is that the official death-numbers miss a lot of people; whereas working countries have them close to each other so that there's no difference - or the estimates are even lower than the official numbers. However, many poor countries also lack the elderly that are most at risk - so the numbers are even worse.

Compared with the US (officially 0.3% - estimated 0.35%), Germany (0.17%), and the countries I listed above Denmark (0.11%), S. Korea (0.047%), and Australia (0.042%).

True but that also comes into play when you talk about available healthcare for extreme cases as well. It is an exceedingly hard metric to measure and that is before you take into account the virus rapid mutations.

[Edge-]

https://www.dailydot.com/debug/anti-...ted-data-leak/

Anti-vaxx dating site for "purebloods" who have "mRNA FREE semen" is...uh...a fuckin weird thing to begin with.

But the hilarious bit, given that of course this is yet another low-effort grift, is that the company behind it left its administrative dashboard publicly accessible. They doxxed all their own users.

Nobody has ever credibly accused the anti-vaxx crowd of being smart or competent.

[PACOX]

Well Biden got caught slipping.

He did a press conference trying to reinforce the whole "you only need 5 days off" thing. Do I need to get into why thats nonsense for most of the country, even if infection ran its entire course in those days? Hint, most of the country doesn't have an entire section of the government that only exists to maintain the health and workflow of one person.

Buddy tested positive again because paxlovid messes with tests. Just something to be aware of.

[Zan15]

Cant you just argue that those most likely to of died just did so in the first few waves?

I won't lie I'm extremely skeptical of the effectiveness and extremely wary of how quickly it was rubber stamped.

You mean how surprisingly long the approval process is and how it doesn't need to be that long?

How there is such a backlog because the appropriate divisions of the govt are not funded enough?

How something can just jump the line in the approval process to get priority handling like never before in history?

You realize most of the delay in getting these things to market are caused on purpose, right? Like marketing, product pipeline, product funding plans, govt backlog, etc etc.


you basically are just wary because you got told you should be by a particular party and media company.

[Tentim]

You mean how surprisingly long the approval process is and how it doesn't need to be that long?

How there is such a backlog because the appropriate divisions of the govt are not funded enough?

How something can just jump the line in the approval process to get priority handling like never before in history?

You realize most of the delay in getting these things to market are caused on purpose, right? Like marketing, product pipeline, product funding plans, govt backlog, etc etc.


you basically are just wary because you got told you should be by a particular party and media company.

More flipper kids but to each their own. You are not going to convince me that we should let medical practices be waived because we are scared.

[Edge-]

More flipper kids but to each their own.

What's a flipper kid? I'm confused here, do you think the vaccine is causing children to mutate?

[Captain N]

What's a flipper kid? I'm confused here, do you think the vaccine is causing children to mutate?

A mutation caused by mothers who used the drug Thalidomide during pregnancy. Basically its the new right-wing talking point to vaccines cause autism.

[Machismo]

More flipper kids but to each their own. You are not going to convince me that we should let medical practices be waived because we are scared.

So, you're just pushing bullshit conspiracies about the vaccine...

In the end, the vaccine is safe, and saved many, many lives.

[Poopymonster]

So, you're just pushing bullshit conspiracies about the vaccine...

In the end, the vaccine is safe, and saved many, many lives.

They prefer corpses. Simple as that. They'd rather a dead kid than (and there is no credible evidence linking vaccines to autism) an autistic child. It couldn't be their perfect genetics, it had to be vaccines. Partying before you know you're pregnant? Had to be those chemicals in the needles that did it. As the party of personal responsibility, they take none for their lifestyles potentially fucking up their destined to be perfect fetus.

[Machismo]

They prefer corpses. Simple as that. They'd rather a dead kid than (and there is no credible evidence linking vaccines to autism) an autistic child. It couldn't be their perfect genetics, it had to be vaccines. Partying before you know you're pregnant? Had to be those chemicals in the needles that did it. As the party of personal responsibility, they take none for their lifestyles potentially fucking up their destined to be perfect fetus.

This is what I find to be the most baffling part. They are deliberately spreading lies that will get people killed.

I, above almost everyone, have a clear disdain and distrust of government as a whole But, the science and data is clear. Personally, I'm all for people suffering as a result of their choices in life. Avoid anti-vaxxers like the plague they are.

[Iain]

The problem with the covid vaccine now is that it's a total dud compared to the smallpox vaccine that's used to inoculate against monkeypox. So it's lacklustre effectiveness combined with two years of outright coercion has been squandering a lot of goodwill that's now required to get people to vaccinate against a disease that can be successfully stopped in its tracks by vaccination.

Zero covid was bullshit, it was a dumb idea two years ago, it still is now, and it will never not be a dumb idea.

But zero monkeypox? Absolutely. Very achievable. If we act fast, despite the covid vaccine poisoning the well of public opinion.

[Zan15]

More flipper kids but to each their own. You are not going to convince me that we should let medical practices be waived because we are scared.

No medical practices were waved only administrative burdens and red tape. Not to mention basically they got to jump the "line" in the approval process.

Go submit a drug/vaccine/etc and see how long the wait is to even get it reviewed. that is the 2nd biggest reason on why things take so long.

The 1st is corporate drug pipeline. they are in no hurry to get things done as fast as possible since they like to have an even revenue stream vs popping these things out on an irregular basis. Profit and stock price over saving lives yah know

- - - Updated - - -

The problem with the covid vaccine now is that it's a total dud compared to the smallpox vaccine that's used to inoculate against monkeypox. So it's lacklustre effectiveness combined with two years of outright coercion has been squandering a lot of goodwill that's now required to get people to vaccinate against a disease that can be successfully stopped in its tracks by vaccination.

Zero covid was bullshit, it was a dumb idea two years ago, it still is now, and it will never not be a dumb idea.

But zero monkeypox? Absolutely. Very achievable. If we act fast, despite the covid vaccine poisoning the well of public opinion.

you mean the republican/trump/right wing poisoning of the well of public opinion right?

Since we've had vaccines that do not prevent catching the flu for decades but no one really had this problem with the flu vaxx

[Iain]

you mean the republican/trump/right wing poisoning of the well of public opinion right?

Trump was the first one who overpromised the effect of the vaccine yes. He called it the Trump vaccine. But I wish he would be the only one. That more adult people would take over. And instead, so did Rochelle Walensky, Joe Biden and Fauci. They all presented this as the solution to the pandemic, they all told us that vaccinated people couldn't spread it around.

It did nothing of the sort. In fact the only person who warned that the mutations would escape the vaccine, Geert van Denbosche was reviled by the media. Kicked from social media platforms. Guess, what the mutations did end up escaping the vaccine, reducing its benefits to noise within all the other confounding variables.

And what angers me the most is that they rather than admit and rectify, they continued in a desperate attempt to save face, pretending the vaccine was as effective as the results could reach in the most generous interpretation.

Since we've had vaccines that do not prevent catching the flu for decades but no one really had this problem with the flu vaxx

If you equated the covid vaccine to the flu vaccine one year ago you would be considered an antivaxxer as you would question the feasibility of herd immunity. Remember that joke? Herd immunity.

But indeed, not all vaccines are equal. That's the dumpster fire the CDC created here. The smallpox is excellent. Unlike this covid vaccine, the smallpox works against various viruses and does in fact contribute significantly to herd immunity. It's been effectively used in the congo for decades to this extend.

[Edge-]

If you equated the covid vaccine to the flu vaccine one year ago you would be considered an antivaxxer as you would question the feasibility of herd immunity. Remember that joke? Herd immunity.

Wasn't that what all the "purebloods" have been pushing from the get-go?

I mean we can quibble about communication on the benefits of the vaccine from political sources, but medical sources have been fairly consistent in their messaging about it. And even while it doesn't prevent a covid infection, there remains no non-medical reason not to get one to reduce the severity of the infection and your (the royal you) chance of hospitalization.

That's the dumpster fire the CDC created here. The smallpox is excellent. Unlike this covid vaccine, the smallpox works against various viruses and does in fact contribute significantly to herd immunity. It's been effectively used in the congo for decades to this extend.

Unfortunately, not all viruses are equal and consequently not all vaccines work the same. Even if some folks think that's how it should work for some reason.

[Iain]

The antivaxxers pushed herd immunity through infection, even Boris Johnson attempted that in one of his press briefings. The people who mindlessly take the official institutes as their one source of truth went for herd immunity through vaccination. Rachel Maddow literally told her viewers that the virus would stop at every vaccinated person, that it couldn't be passed on. The partisan hack.

Unfortunately, not all viruses are equal and consequently not all vaccines work the same. Even if some folks think that's how it should work for some reason.

That's indeed the blatant lie that was paddled by authorities and formerly respectable sources. And it's about time we grow up and accept that we've been had.