Must WoW go Fully PG to continue to Thrive?

[Onikaroshi]

That would be a definite no, MMOs are not for 8 year olds.
The community factor alone sees to that.

You can control your content but you can't really control the community, so 12 and above makes sense.

Well, that's why online games have the warning "online experience not rated by the ESRB" or whatever, you can't control what people say online and rate it, or every game would be rated AO if had online lol.

[Arakakao]

IIRC an online game with voice chat functionality cannot have an age recomendation lower than 12+.

[Onikaroshi]

IIRC an online game with voice chat functionality cannot have an age recomendation lower than 12+.

Honestly haven't dug that deep into it, but it's probably true.

[Kyphael]

Many, many parents ignore that in practice. All the Marvel movies are PG-13 and tons of kids watch them. Generally, R rating is the one that stops people from seeing a movie, and very few movies are rated R. There used to be a fair amount of R rated action movies but they've managed to turn them PG by toning down the graphic violence. People still get shot and killed all the time but there's no blood and it's often with funky weapons that don't show real damage.

Oh yeah, I know, those ratings are just rough guidelines and parents more or less don't really care, especially when they're accompanying them. Movie studios find ways to circumvent certain ratings to fill a movie theater (looking at you, Alien vs. Predator), but in certain scenarios, PG 13 is useful. I wouldn't want my 8 year-old watching The Breakfast Club for example, even though he might want to because it's the cool thing to do or he's legit curious, but I wouldn't be comfortable with him watching content that is otherwise targeted for young adults or teenagers. Meanwhile, most action movies from the 90's like Lethal Weapon or Die Hard which had gratuitous over the top violence and sailor level swearing I'd be fine with. Not all PG 13 movies are made equal, some could pass for just PG, but some content from PG 13 that might deal with teen sex, drugs, depression, suicide, or other things kids have never heard or know about, that's where that rating becomes handy.

[Onikaroshi]

Oh yeah, I know, those ratings are just rough guidelines and parents more or less don't really care, especially when they're accompanying them. Movie studios find ways to circumvent certain ratings to fill a movie theater (looking at you, Alien vs. Predator), but in certain scenarios, PG 13 is useful. I wouldn't want my 8 year-old watching The Breakfast Club for example, even though he might want to because it's the cool thing to do or he's legit curious, but I wouldn't be comfortable with him watching content that is otherwise targeted for young adults or teenagers. Meanwhile, most action movies from the 90's like Lethal Weapon or Die Hard which had gratuitous over the top violence and sailor level swearing I'd be fine with. Not all PG 13 movies are made equal, some could pass for just PG, but some content from PG 13 that might deal with teen sex, drugs, depression, suicide, or other things kids have never heard or know about, that's where that rating becomes handy.

You make a point that a lot of people don't get. Age based rating systems only go so far, its up to the maturity of the person as to what they can handle. Hell... there's adults out there not mature or mentally stable enough to watch an R rated movie.

It's basically saying your kid is mature enough to understand the violence is fake and that swearing is not something you do, but not mature enough to understand the deeper meanings of the darker things you mentioned like depression and suicide.

[Mirishka]

I never quite understood the functional difference between PG and PG-13 in American MPAA ratings, so difficult to say really.

Stuff that was PG in the 80's would be pushing PG-13 to its limits today.

[Onikaroshi]

Stuff that was PG in the 80's would be pushing PG-13 to its limits today.

Pretty sure Logan's run has full frontal and it's rated PG lol.

[Kelathos]

I need a double take to make sure this didn't say "RPG" instead.

Cause a more cohesive and better told in-game story would benefit WoW. As well as less random / unstable class design. BFA suffered terribly for the changes made to move away from Legion. And class order halls were so much better than the war campaign.

ESRB rating for WoW, the "maturity" of its content means little. It is the quality that is lacking.

[matrix123mko]

That would require them to censor some Forsaken parts first.

[Eapoe]

I never quite understood the functional difference between PG and PG-13 in American MPAA ratings, so difficult to say really.

You would have to google it for best explanation, but all it boils down to is what you can say, how much you can say it. It also takes into account how much hate skin is shown in what context.
I’m not saying I agree with it or it’s a great system, but that’s all there really is to it.

[Kyphael]

You make a point that a lot of people don't get. Age based rating systems only go so far, its up to the maturity of the person as to what they can handle. Hell... there's adults out there not mature or mentally stable enough to watch an R rated movie.

It's basically saying your kid is mature enough to understand the violence is fake and that swearing is not something you do, but not mature enough to understand the deeper meanings of the darker things you mentioned like depression and suicide.

Exactly. It's just a red flag the parent should choose to take a deeper look into before approving whether they feel it's truly appropriate, and I appreciate age based ratings for that very reason. They're not a mandate, just a stop sign or a red flag, take a closer look and examine.

[Eapoe]

Stuff that was PG in the 80's would be pushing PG-13 to its limits today.

Stuff that was PG in the 80’s would be rated R in some cases.

[Powerogue]

"the portrayal of the story, the direction of it and even the character development have been increasingly more kid-friendly."

"Perhaps one or two had died quickly. The rest had been helpless—in pain, but alive. And only then had the killing truly begun. These Horde soldiers had not died in a flash of fire—they had burned slowly, in agony, screaming. The night elves had done everything they could to prolong the horror, to maximize the pain."

"They had used their power not to win a battle or buy time for their people’s evacuation, but to inflict pain and nothing else. Their fury had stripped away every civilized pretense, every semblance of honor, and they had shown who they truly were.
That was what war did. That was what it was for: to give civilized beings permission to do the unthinkable. Only then could you achieve the impossible."

-Sylvanas musing over the mountain of corpses she was creating in A Good War.

Yeah could totally see this one being read to my nephew like an episode of My Little Pony.

[Aucald]

Stuff that was PG in the 80's would be pushing PG-13 to its limits today.

That's likely the origin of my confusion - I'm 40 years old, so when I think of "PG" movies I think of them from the 80's and 90's.

[Sansnom]

now personally I do --not-- think Blizz needs to make WoW go full "PG" and they can afford to still cater to a more mature demographic of players ... yet it just feels like that is the ultimate direction of to take the game the other way.

Or the people who wants a more mature theme game choose a more mature theme game. Just as they can choose a more mature theme TV show.

Making it more mature does not necessary make it better. Seeing more gore does not make it better. And hearing characters using more mature language could make the character into a different character and no longer associated with the old one.

Just my opinion anyway.

If I want to watch blood splatter, I find a gore movie. If I want to watch porn, I find a porn. I do not necessary want to see my favorite sci fi show suddenly have people swearing or doing the naughty in their rooms. Yes, there are parody of that, I know and I would watch that IF I wanted to see such things.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

You bring up Bwomsamdi as an example of PG. Which is funny because I don't think he qualifies as PG at all. Sure he's not out there pushing the adult envelope at all, but a trickster god of death rigging events on the chess board so he can become the patron deity of an Empress against her will? That wouldn't fly in a "PG WoW." He'd be purely a comedic character.

Honestly you don't need to skew, well, childish to have a popular MMO. That wasn't true in 2004 and it sure as hell isn't true in 2020. If you think Genocide of a race is excessive, FF14's been dealing with genocide of entire planets. And the impact of said Genocides on the handful of people who by some miracle survive.

[Mirishka]

Stuff that was PG in the 80’s would be rated R in some cases.

For sure. Its crazy how different it is now.

- - - Updated - - -

You bring up Bwomsamdi as an example of PG. Which is funny because I don't think he qualifies as PG at all. Sure he's not out there pushing the adult envelope at all, but a trickster god of death rigging events on the chess board so he can become the patron deity of an Empress against her will? That wouldn't fly in a "PG WoW." He'd be purely a comedic character.

Honestly you don't need to skew, well, childish to have a popular MMO. That wasn't true in 2004 and it sure as hell isn't true in 2020. If you think Genocide of a race is excessive, FF14's been dealing with genocide of entire planets. And the impact of said Genocides on the handful of people who by some miracle survive.

The Burning Legion called, they want their M.O. back.

[Stricks]

It doesn't seem like you've been around many kids... They know curse words I don't know. Now if you are talking about catering to the PARENTS of those kids (to let them play the game), maybe you have a point. But even still if their parents are saying "play this" they are likely going to want to play something else.

Plus, the most offensive thing in the game has nothing to do with the game itself but the people playing it - chat.

[matrix123mko]

Well, do kids have money for subscribtion?

[Thage]

I never quite understood the functional difference between PG and PG-13 in American MPAA ratings, so difficult to say really.

In PG-13 movies, you get more wiggle room for violent content or sexual content in addition to looser restrictions on language. At least in theory. These days PG-13 has been quite thoroughly defanged by Puritanical groups applying pressure to studios with 'Think of the children!!!'

It's a similar issue affecting small game dev studios that feature sexual content in their games. I know of several studios that were forced off Patreon because of so-called 'moral majority' groups organizing pressure campaigns, one in particular was affected so badly they had to create a secondary brand dedicated to SFW games to keep the lights on as they wouldn't have survived the initial income hit from having Patreon pulled out from under them otherwise.

- - - Updated - - -

The Burning Legion called, they want their M.O. back.

The Ascians' motives and modus operandi are a bit more complicated than the Burning Legion's, and Shadowbringers gives a lot of insight into their motives and their start of darkness that manages to keep them sympathetic without causing players to lose sight of the enormity of their actions, nor does it try to paint their actions as justified--they are very clearly wrong and the driving conflict is their inability to let go what cannot be regained.