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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    A list of people Nathanos has helped or otherwise aided: Rokhan, Thalyssra, Talanji, Gallywix, Lilian, Amalia Stone, Tattersail, Thomas Zelling, Eitrigg, Rexxar. Let's also keep in mind Varok has killed innocents too, to the extent equates it to 'the sound of swine being slaughtered that resonates the loudest'. What sounds did Nathanos hear from that tree? Nathanos hesitated before he launched the catapult, didn't he? I think Nathanos on some level regrets what he did. Keep in mind, Nathanos is clinically undead emotionally. Azerite was recently discovered, the power of which threatening the whole Horde's survival if they didn't strike first. And yet, despite this, Undercity is still later lost. I think Nathanos has only ever done in the moment what he could to protect as many people in his immediate vicinity that he was able, and occasionally had to make realistic and cold and deadly sacrifices to win a grueling war that by its nature took many casualties. The spark that lit the world tree... if it hadn't happened, would the war have been prolonged much longer and resulted in much more death? Nathanos, perhaps despite having to follow orders to survive in a world that would otherwise see him destroyed, is doing his best to still work alongside and influence for the better a lot of the Horde he comes across. Sylvannas has executed people she saw as defectors before, such as the time Calia organized the meeting of Forsaken and human families. Nathanos can be pragmatic as hell sometimes, but I don't think he doesn't have his reasons and I don't think he yet can be considered as evil yet especially considering the emotional condition undeath puts him in. Nathanos, I think at the very least should be given an opportunity.
    thats a lot of crap, look at how many mental gymnastics you have to do to sustain the argument that nathanos is a good guy, lol. He is an asshole, he treats everyone like shit and doesnt give a crap about anything other than silvanas.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Also there is the possiblity taht she and Bolvar might be swapped


    i.e. she becomes teh Lich Queen as punishmetn of sorts and Bolvar becomes Forsaken leader.
    I want whatever you're smoking, because this is the worst level of speculation I can imagine.

    You're not even listening to why Bolvar is a bad choice. You're just like, "Bolvar lead Scourge. Bolvar can lead Forsaken. Herp, derp."

  3. #103
    Thrall should lead the Forsaken. They live in Orgrimmar now anyway...

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Black Goat View Post
    I want whatever you're smoking, because this is the worst level of speculation I can imagine.

    You're not even listening to why Bolvar is a bad choice. You're just like, "Bolvar lead Scourge. Bolvar can lead Forsaken. Herp, derp."
    That's because I'm not convinced the reasons for Bolvar not to be are good enough. But I do acknowledge they are valid enough.

    For me, Bolvar is a good enough guy, and suited to lead an Undead faction that's not evil. If you don't want the horde to be the evil faction, Sylvanas in her current form makes a better Lich Queen, and Bolvar an undead leader for the faction. Calia makes sense as an allied race leader, but she could also work as the Forsaken leader.


    I think people think he is a bad choice because they still think of him as alliance. And that's it. Bolvar became Lich King, with no more action involved unless you played a DK in Legion.. and I think that is the main reason, they're not really factoring he is not alliance but the undead ruler. Sylvanas had a lot more of her shown after she transitioned, so people think of her in her current capacity.

    I find he is a familiar and powerful enough replacement, and when I consider who he actualy is now, Id on't have an issue reconcile him with the undead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martymark View Post
    Thrall should lead the Forsaken. They live in Orgrimmar now anyway...
    THey do live there, but I ohpe blizzard gives them their own home.

  5. #105
    Old God Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    .
    Yet thru all your handwaving and stammering you continue to evade/ignore/refuse to answer a simple question... WHY Would Bolivar WANT to lead the Forsaken?

    Suited you say? Suited to order them to their deaths for what they did to him.

    It's not that he's a BAD choice... He's probably one of the worst choices in all of Warcraft history to lead the very people that are responsible for his disfigurement, and his capture and torture at the hands of the Lich King.

    Yes, yes, I know you are going to start waving your arms about saying 'he's perfect for the job'...
    Last edited by Seranthor; 2020-01-22 at 05:02 PM.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  6. #106
    Nothing really points this way, and the story quests all seem to be leading to a Calia Forsaken faction of some kind... Possibly even an Alliance faction (Calia/Derek Proudmoore) and a Horde faction (Voss?), that part is unclear, and I only mention the possibility because she walks away with the undead sentinels and I'm not sure where they go or if that is implying they return with her. Most likely scenario seems to be that Calia takes control.
    Last edited by yamix; 2020-01-22 at 05:13 PM.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    That's because I'm not convinced the reasons for Bolvar not to be are good enough. But I do acknowledge they are valid enough.

    For me, Bolvar is a good enough guy, and suited to lead an Undead faction that's not evil. If you don't want the horde to be the evil faction, Sylvanas in her current form makes a better Lich Queen, and Bolvar an undead leader for the faction. Calia makes sense as an allied race leader, but she could also work as the Forsaken leader.


    I think people think he is a bad choice because they still think of him as alliance. And that's it. Bolvar became Lich King, with no more action involved unless you played a DK in Legion.. and I think that is the main reason, they're not really factoring he is not alliance but the undead ruler. Sylvanas had a lot more of her shown after she transitioned, so people think of her in her current capacity.

    I find he is a familiar and powerful enough replacement, and when I consider who he actualy is now, Id on't have an issue reconcile him with the undead.

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    THey do live there, but I ohpe blizzard gives them their own home.
    Dude shut up, you dont know what you are talking about, your line of thinking is pretty much: "oh i like it then it totally makes sense and must happen", the thing is, it doesnt make sense!!!

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    Yet thru all your handwaving and stammering you continue to evade/ignore/refuse to answer a simple question... WHY Would Bolivar WANT to lead the Forsaken?

    Suited you say? Suited to order them to their deaths for what they did to him.

    It's not that he's a BAD choice... He's probably one of the worst choices in all of Warcraft history to lead the very people that are responsible for his disfigurement, and his capture and torture at the hands of the Lich King.

    Yes, yes, I know you are going to start waving your arms about saying 'he's perfect for the job'...
    Oh come on Seranthor, given what the scourge did worse and he leads them.

    The reason i want him is becasue he is the Lich King, and it fits that a Lich King should lead the undead forsaken. Besides, I think motivated to prevent them from ever becoming Sylvanas or anything terrible fits Bolvar.. I mean that's why he took up the crown in the first place,

  9. #109
    Old God Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Oh come on Seranthor, given what the scourge did worse and he leads them.

    The reason i want him is becasue he is the Lich King, and it fits that a Lich King should lead the undead forsaken. Besides, I think motivated to prevent them from ever becoming Sylvanas or anything terrible fits Bolvar.. I mean that's why he took up the crown in the first place,
    Since you seem distracted by words... I'll be really short with you.

    WHY WOULD BOLIVAR WANT TO LEAD THE FORSAKEN?

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Moose Fandango View Post
    Deathstalker Belmont for leader!
    He could do with a new model but yeah this would be my vote as well.
    DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU CAN CAST ASIDE YOUR GUILT SO EASILY

  11. #111
    Nope. He's Bolvar the Bitch King now.

    Useless character.
    VOTING IS MOB RULE AND MOB RULE IS MEDIA RULE AND
    MEDIA RULE IS CORPORATE RULE

  12. #112
    Nah, he doesn't make much sense as the leader of the Forsaken. I was thinking they could have some sort of redeeming arc for Nathanos where he goes against Sylvanas and earns the respect of the Forsaken people.

    WoW is so short on characters anymore since they've killed off pretty much everyone and anyone who is still alive has become a useless turd like Thrall. So it's kinda hard to replace these major characters that have been so iconic throughout the whole Warcraft franchise.
    I'd buy that for a dollar.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    That's because I'm not convinced the reasons for Bolvar not to be are good enough. But I do acknowledge they are valid enough.

    For me, Bolvar is a good enough guy, and suited to lead an Undead faction that's not evil. If you don't want the horde to be the evil faction, Sylvanas in her current form makes a better Lich Queen, and Bolvar an undead leader for the faction. Calia makes sense as an allied race leader, but she could also work as the Forsaken leader.


    I think people think he is a bad choice because they still think of him as alliance. And that's it. Bolvar became Lich King, with no more action involved unless you played a DK in Legion.. and I think that is the main reason, they're not really factoring he is not alliance but the undead ruler. Sylvanas had a lot more of her shown after she transitioned, so people think of her in her current capacity.

    I find he is a familiar and powerful enough replacement, and when I consider who he actualy is now, Id on't have an issue reconcile him with the undead.

    - - - Updated - - -


    THey do live there, but I ohpe blizzard gives them their own home.
    Except he's not the ruler of the undead. He's the ruler of the Scourge.

    The Forsaken killed him. The Plague killed him that was unleashed by members of the Forsaken race.

    The only reasoning you've offered, which is extremely frustrating to watch you say the same thing over and over, is that he is "the ruler of the undead". If you're going to say the dozen or so reasons you've been presented with aren't good enough, let me tell you, your reasoning for him being their leader is as flimsy as it gets. You're either trolling or you're not reading people's responses to you. Whichever, I think you're not here to have a discussion at all or else you'd actually counter our points instead of repeating yourself over and over.

    You're blatantly ignoring that he also no longer has the Helm of Domination, which allowed him the control of the Scourge in the first place. Unless the Helm is reforged, he's kind of up the creek without a paddle. He's just a burnt reanimated corpse now.
    Last edited by Black Goat; 2020-01-27 at 01:37 AM.

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