Should Bolvar lead the Forsaken post Sylvanas?

[matrix123mko]

Why can't we use a Horde character? Maybe undead Kael'thas?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I'd say it's more the fault of Arthas.

Anyways, no, I see him leading the Ebon Blade, that's all.

Arthas didn’t betray his allies and dunk them with plague.

[Mehrunes]

Bolvar most certainly should not become the leader of the Forsaken and Calia even more certainly should not become his sub-leader. Especially of Lightforged undead as no such thing should ever exist. Back to Bolvar, not only is he currently above factions, but any faction ties he has are towards the Alliance. On multiple levels. On top of that, the Forsaken (albeit rebel ones) are what caused him to become a charred mess in the first place. And Sylvanas just disgraced him to boot, first with their duel and then making him lose control over the Scourge and utterly failing at his one single task. And all of that still pales in comparison to how the Forsaken dislike the Lich King.

And this makes no sense.

Bolvar is NOT living normal human, I think you are viewing him as an alliance human, use the information about him, he is the Lord of the undead, you don't get more qualified to lead the undead faction. ..

Bolvar is so qualified as a leader of an undead faction that despite the faction in question being bound to his will and him being in that position solely because said undead would become An EvEn GrEaTeR tHrEaT otherwise in the ~6 years since him becoming the Lich King he still didn't manage to get them all to jump into a volcano to remove the problem altogether.

[Makorus]

And this makes no sense.

Bolvar is NOT living normal human, I think you are viewing him as an alliance human, use the information about him, he is the Lord of the undead, you don't get more qualified to lead the undead faction. ..

Undead is not Undead.

Or would you want Umbric to lead the Night Elves? I mean, they are both Elves.

[Mehrunes]

Why can't we use a Horde character? Maybe undead Kael'thas?

To lead Quel'Thalas and Lordaeron in a personal union? I can already see the sea of salt that would cause.

A) I don't think matters, it's like when Sylvanas becamse leader of the forsaken while her people were still in the alliance, and when they joined the horde, she didn't rejoin them. Bovlar is undead, his daughter replaces him on the alliance, he has a different role since WotLK, he leads the undead. You don't get more suitable for that than Bovlar.

Quel'Thalas left the Alliance for good before there even were Forsaken.

b) THis is not a hinderance, the scourge is also neutral. If Bolvar leads the forsaken as their new leader, i assume thehorde DKs remain, andt he alliance DKS form their separate body or join Calia if they indead make the Lightforged undead an alliance race. To counter the Ebon Blade going horde, the Illidari go alliance, with the Blood elf ones choosing to lead a faction of Fel elves and do their own thing.. tHe night elf ones we will call Illidari, which we always have, and the blood elf ones we willc all Fel elves, which we always have.

If Lightforged undead ever become a thing, which they never should, why on earth should the Alliance get them? They already got one Horde racial model and that is already more than enough.

C). It's cool for races to have a capital, it's a key part fo the fantasy, a city is a key part of a race's identity, and nearly all races have, plus the game has enough race related assetse to give every homelss race a city except for maybe the Vulpera.(this would not have been a problem if the Sethrak were the allied race

Forsaken still have plenty of outposts they can fortify and turn into their new seat of power.

[TickTickTick]

Seeing as how Orcs, Trolls, Goblins and Forsaken dont have any leading figure currently, I'd say there's a path that Blizz lore team is following, which is just remove leaders. Yeah, we have Thrall, Rokhan and Gazlowe, but they are not their race's leaders.

But then Alliance is full of leaders so idk...

[bullseyed]

Why? He's an even bigger Alliance character than Calia, which is why most Horde find her unfit, despite being like a rightful ruler to the Forsaken by blood. Not to mention Bolvar was a Stormwind human and not Lordaeron.

Only the alliance believe in such fascist concepts.

[matrix123mko]

To lead Quel'Thalas and Lordaeron in a personal union? I can already see the sea of salt that would cause.

Quel'Thalas left the Alliance for good before there even were Forsaken.

If Lightforged undead ever become a thing, which they never should, why on earth should the Alliance get them? They already got one Horde racial model and that is already more than enough.

Forsaken still have plenty of outposts they can fortify and turn into their new seat of power.

*Unidentified high elf fan sounds*

[ChairmanKaga]

No one outside of the Forsaken should be the new leader. It should be someone who has been around since the start like Hercular or Belmont.

This. Keep your stinking Alliance undeads out of the Forsaken.

[iamthedevil]

Arthas didn’t betray his allies and dunk them with plague.

That kinda is what he did though lol just in a different manner.

[Mehrunes]

*Unidentified high elf fan sounds*

Then he'd turn full Habsburg and be all "All your thrones are belong to us" and go on a crusade against the Alliance to get the crowns of their monarchies. You know, when Blizzard needs to villain-bat the Horde again. It will end with Kael babbling about how Shadowlands was merely a setback and how he was plotting this master plan all the time he spent in Revendreth.

[Adoxe]

Obviously Bolvar's gonna be the Lich King again at the end of Shadowlands when we have to rebuild the crown to close the rift above ICC, if he for some reason chooses not to be the LK again, he'd rejoin the Alliance not lead the Forsaken.

[ravenmoon]

Anyways, no, I see him leading the Ebon Blade, that's all.

And I see him as leader of the Undead. And that is exactly what he is.

HE can lead the Ebon blade as long as he is neutral, but he is first the leader of the undead. Should the undead choose a faction, the Ebon blade would remain neutral

[Thage]

Why? He's an even bigger Alliance character than Calia, which is why most Horde find her unfit, despite being like a rightful ruler to the Forsaken by blood. Not to mention Bolvar was a Stormwind human and not Lordaeron.

Just pointing out, Bolvar was, like Lothar before him, a refugee who integrated into his new home country. There's been hints here and there over the years, but Taelia all but spells it out that Bolvar came from Lordaeron with the other refugees (she mentions having come from Lordaeron and being sent to Kul'tiras during the Scourging, and Bolvar being her old man, it narrows things down significantly as to where he came from). He also apparently knew Tirion from those days, as Tirion refers to him as an old friend, but Tirion had only come out of exile within a couple years in-universe before the death knights drew him out of hiding at Light's Hope, making it highly unlikely that he and Bolvar knew each other after the Third War (especially since Bolvar would most likely have fled south with Lordaeron's survivors, taking refuge in Stormwind, before Lordaeron's total collapse, shortly after Terenas's assassination/patricide/regicide).

Sorry to get off on something of a tangent. But on that front, at least, Bolvar would have some claim. The bigger issues at work are that Bolvar's sympathies are likely still biased toward the Alliance, as seen with the Four Horsemen (three fallen human champions, one of which was a famous Alliance king, another of which was a high inquisitor of Lordaeron's largest living remnant faction at the time, and the third of which was another Lordaeron survivor prior to sacrificing himself, and one Horde general). It's just that the bias is faint. The big issue, of course, is that he's the Lich King.

Calia is one thing--those Forsaken who lived in Lordaeron, Gilneas, and Arathi all likely remember her fondly, if only because she was a very inoffensive figure prior to the fall of Lordaeron, and she ostensibly has a blood claim to the throne should the Forsaken be agreeable to restoring the Menethil monarchy for whatever reason (and even that's a stretch, really). But I highly doubt the Forsaken would ever willingly rally under the Lich King's banner, save those already affiliated with the Ebon Blade.

[matrix123mko]

Then he'd turn full Habsburg and be all "All your thrones are belong to us" and go on a crusade against the Alliance to get the crowns of their monarchies. You know, when Blizzard needs to villain-bat the Horde again. It will end with Kael babbling about how Shadowlands was merely a setback and how he was plotting this master plan all the time he spent in Revendreth.

And he will not show any signs of madness until final patch when Blizzard runs out of ideas how to make Horde hate him.

[Kyphael]

Only the alliance believe in such fascist concepts.

The Alliance isn't a hive mind anymore than The Forsaken are. Some would welcome Calia, some might not.

[Swnem]

Err i think this boat has sailed.

It will be Calia. And tbh only players would not be happy with that. The in-game fictional characters would welcome having a ruler that cares about them.

[Kyphael]

Just pointing out, Bolvar was, like Lothar before him, a refugee who integrated into his new home country. There's been hints here and there over the years, but Taelia all but spells it out that Bolvar came from Lordaeron with the other refugees (she mentions having come from Lordaeron and being sent to Kul'tiras during the Scourging, and Bolvar being her old man, it narrows things down significantly as to where he came from). He also apparently knew Tirion from those days, as Tirion refers to him as an old friend, but Tirion had only come out of exile within a couple years in-universe before the death knights drew him out of hiding at Light's Hope, making it highly unlikely that he and Bolvar knew each other after the Third War (especially since Bolvar would most likely have fled south with Lordaeron's survivors, taking refuge in Stormwind, before Lordaeron's total collapse, shortly after Terenas's assassination/patricide/regicide).

Sorry to get off on something of a tangent. But on that front, at least, Bolvar would have some claim. The bigger issues at work are that Bolvar's sympathies are likely still biased toward the Alliance, as seen with the Four Horsemen (three fallen human champions, one of which was a famous Alliance king, another of which was a high inquisitor of Lordaeron's largest living remnant faction at the time, and the third of which was another Lordaeron survivor prior to sacrificing himself, and one Horde general). It's just that the bias is faint. The big issue, of course, is that he's the Lich King.

Calia is one thing--those Forsaken who lived in Lordaeron, Gilneas, and Arathi all likely remember her fondly, if only because she was a very inoffensive figure prior to the fall of Lordaeron, and she ostensibly has a blood claim to the throne should the Forsaken be agreeable to restoring the Menethil monarchy for whatever reason (and even that's a stretch, really). But I highly doubt the Forsaken would ever willingly rally under the Lich King's banner, save those already affiliated with the Ebon Blade.

Even if Bolvar was originally from Lordaeron, he has as much claim as any Forsaken, or less depending on what Forsaken you ask. Calia has the most claim of any by rule of ascension. Bolvar could never even stake claim to the throne of Stormwind when Varian went missing, much less that of a dead nation he never had royal blood to rule over on the basis of hierarchy.

[Mehrunes]

And he will not show any signs of madness until final patch when Blizzard runs out of ideas how to make Horde hate him.

That goes without saying. The same applies to Kael breaking the fourth wall and lying to the reader in his internal monologues in any book or short story he'll play a part in.

[Frinata]

I get it, you desperately want to hear YOUR opinion come out of MY mouth... Newsflash... it isn't going to happen... neither is your poorly written fan fiction.

So you plugging your ears and pretending that lore written by Blizzard doesn't exist is properly written fan fiction?

...Congrats that's the most stupid post in this thread so far.

OT

I'd like it, personally. Bolvar, ever since Legion, has had a very Forsaken/Scourge attitude about himself. "Do this or I wreck your shit." That is not Bolvar Fordragon speaking. That's the Lich King. He held a gun to the Death Knight's head back in Legion, and no one really talks about that. Any ties to the Alliance, Bolvar gave up when he donned the Crown of Domination. Just because that Crown is now destroyed, doesn't mean he's suddenly going to don the gold and blue, and stand next to Anduin again. He's done far too much. If he tried that, the Ebon Blade would blow the whistle and demand justice.

No, Bolvar, if he WERE to join a faction, makes sense to join the Forsaken.