Should Bolvar lead the Forsaken post Sylvanas?

[ravenmoon]

He's now being nerfed in shadowlands, I'd say he is more on par with other leaders like Malf/Tyrande, Alleria etc, and with Sylvanas now at god like levesl of power and clearly having a different fate, the most awesome move for the forsaken would be leaders of the Undead scourge with a capital in Icecrown Citadel. Bolvar the Lich King their leader, and Calia Menethil, the sub-race leader for a lightforged undead allied race.

I would actually really like that. I thought Ice crown CItadel was an incredible city, and is perfect for tthe Forskaen to return to a faction level race. Why create or build a new city when Icecrown Citadel fits the bill perfectly? I would prefer it over using the Ruins of THeramore.

New Capital: Icecrown Citadel
Second base: Theramore ruins

SO I would make Theramore ruins the "Echo Isles" of the forsaken. Just like the Dark spears would likely be based in Zuldazar now, I think this is an exciting move for the forsaken, if they do it.

[Ghostile]

I would say what remains of Bolvars former alignments, he's more Alliance than Horde.

[Nathreim]

No one outside of the Forsaken should be the new leader. It should be someone who has been around since the start like Hercular or Belmont.

[Kyphael]

Why? He's an even bigger Alliance character than Calia, which is why most Horde find her unfit, despite being like a rightful ruler to the Forsaken by blood. Not to mention Bolvar was a Stormwind human and not Lordaeron.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

Deathstalker Belmont for leader!

[Rendark]

No he shouldn't.

[Varodoc]

Calia for leader!

I mean, the Forsaken always claimed they were the rightful citizens of Lordaeron, time to embrace the ascension of their rightful ruler, the last scion of House Menethil, which has ruled Lordaeron for some 3.000 years.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Why in the world would he want to lead the people that lead him to being a charred and stuck between life/dead?

[TragedyAnn]

I would say what remains of Bolvars former alignments, he's more Alliance than Horde.

A) I agree with this guy. Alliance questing in Kul'tiras has some heavy ties to Bolvar via introducing daughter to the mix. Furthermore longtime alliance players have Nostalgia for Bolvar that simply doesn't exist for longtime horde players, who never really got to know him or interact with him. Bolvar is the alliance equivalent of Saurfang. They both just started as generic NPCs standing in Vanilla Stormwind/Orgrimmar, who only rose to prominent roles through the respect of vanilla players. Bolvar dying at Wrathgate meant something to the Alliance. The horde didn't really care. Our half of the story focused on Saurfang (though, his son died, rather than he himself).

B) As the leader of the Ebon Blade, Bolvar more or less has to remain neutral, because his current followers are already split 50/50 between the factions. For Bolvar to take a side, the Ebon Blade would have to take a side, and that can't happen the way the game is setup.

C) RE: "Icecrown could be their capital" - Racial Capitals? What is this Vanilla? Racial Capitals haven't been a thing since Burning Crusade. Ugh, I guess TECHNICALLY the Zandalari & Kul'Tirans each have one right now... but, that's more a matter of the way this expansion's story of faction divide was set up. Not a conscious decision to bring them back for every race. In any event, there's no reason to create a new one for a faction that already has/had one, out in the middle of a continent we aren't even actively exploring anymore.

D) I feel like every logical thread points to Calia being their leader. She's technically the princess of Lordaeron. The Forsaken are technically the people of Lordaeron. She is the ruler of Undercity and its people by birthright, even if she hasn't stepped up to claim it. She's set up a LITTLE BIT more in every patch to be the catalyst that brings peace to the undead's tortured existence... I admit, it's still entirely possible they throw a curveball and she doesn't end up leading them. Especially since, much like Bolvar, people tend to see her as more Alliance than Horde. BUT... at least in the vague preliminary sense... it makes all the sense in the world for her to lead them.

*Shrug* Iunno

[Seranthor]

He's now being nerfed in shadowlands, I'd say he is more on par with other leaders like Malf/Tyrande, Alleria etc, and with Sylvanas now at god like levesl of power and clearly having a different fate, the most awesome move for the forsaken would be leaders of the Undead scourge with a capital in Icecrown Citadel. Bolvar the Lich King their leader, and Calia Menethil, the sub-race leader for a lightforged undead allied race.

I would actually really like that. I thought Ice crown CItadel was an incredible city, and is perfect for tthe Forskaen to return to a faction level race. Why create or build a new city when Icecrown Citadel fits the bill perfectly? I would prefer it over using the Ruins of THeramore.

New Capital: Icecrown Citadel
Second base: Theramore ruins

SO I would make Theramore ruins the "Echo Isles" of the forsaken. Just like the Dark spears would likely be based in Zuldazar now, I think this is an exciting move for the forsaken, if they do it.

What benefit to the Forsaken would there be for this to happen? Several are far more deserving and qualified to lead than a non-Forsaken... this reeks of poorly written wishful thinking than anything based in reason.

[qwikz]

Sometimes I think the WoW story writers are bad, then I go to MMO champion forums and read a fanfiction thread with a bunch of crazy shit and I realize the story we have right now aint half bad.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Bolvar is too far outside Horde and Alliance to lead them. He serves a higher purpose.

[ravenmoon]

What benefit to the Forsaken would there be for this to happen? Several are far more deserving and qualified to lead than a non-Forsaken... this reeks of poorly written wishful thinking than anything based in reason.

Imo? Bolvar would be a powerful leader, atm, the alliance has loads of thsoe, while the horde not really as most of the WC3 hero characters were put into the alliance, then blizzard realised how stupid that was when no one played the horde.

Since then they've just trashed perfectly good races to boost the horde up rather than do a sensible move like just get the night elves, leave a group of young night elves in it and develop up them separately.

It's like the Nightborne, Elisande would have made a far more powerful leader than Thalyssra who face it feels a lot more like an alliance night elf character than she does a horde leader, ELisande on the other hand, is very powerful, and the echoes give us a way to recover and make a powerful horde leader. Can you imagine if it was Elisande rescuing Princess Talanji from Stormwind, the confrontation with Jaina would have been different, or they'd have had to use Valtrois instead.

likewise, t he Lich king is the ruler of the undead, he is powerful figure even after being nerfed by Sylvanas, and we know Sylvanas' new power is not really her own anyway, and I'm sorry, she is an undead elf, doesn't really fit with a human faction, even though we've accepted it, time for her to go lead a faction of undead elves and let Bolvar take over, giving the horde a powerful racial leader. Sylvanas can return as an allied race leader for the San'layn /Darkfallen.


I don't see why it can't be meaningful, and it comes across s cool to me, I'd love a far more powerful undead race with the sturcutre changing.. with his diminished power, he can still control mindless, but powerful enough Liches can have their own factions of undead allowing us to have undead squabbles and minions to attack not necessarily player faction ones. There is so much you can do.. just be creative.

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I would say what remains of Bolvars former alignments, he's more Alliance than Horde.

He is undead and the ruler of the undead, how on Azeroth does him not leading the undead not make sense. How can he be in the alliance like he is? Come on dude.

It's like that guy who thinks it make zero sense, but it's the opposite, how can the undead ruler of the dmaned be an alliance member? The faction hate undead even if the odd individual in it can see past their state. Also if there is no alliance undead faction? Again, here we go with perception problem. They still perceive him as alliance because of his roots and failing to factor in he is now undead. Do they have to actually draw the picture to connect the dots? Why do people on video game forums only process visual information but not the whole of the information that should order their perception.

[Seranthor]

.

This smells as bad as a human being the faction leader of the orcs... or of an orc leading the dwarves... Putting lipstick on a pig regardless of how pretty you doll up the pig doesn't change who the pig is... its just a waste of lipstick.

[WukeWiking]

Is Bolvar even an undead, afaik he never actually "died". More like got really close to dying then got turned into a nice crisp piece of meat but still alive.

[ravenmoon]

This smells as bad as a human being the faction leader of the orcs... or of an orc leading the dwarves... Putting lipstick on a pig regardless of how pretty you doll up the pig doesn't change who the pig is... its just a waste of lipstick.

And this makes no sense.

Bolvar is NOT living normal human, I think you are viewing him as an alliance human, use the information about him, he is the Lord of the undead, you don't get more qualified to lead the undead faction. ..

[Darththeo]

C) RE: "Icecrown could be their capital" - Racial Capitals? What is this Vanilla? Racial Capitals haven't been a thing since Burning Crusade. Ugh, I guess TECHNICALLY the Zandalari & Kul'Tirans each have one right now... but, that's more a matter of the way this expansion's story of faction divide was set up. Not a conscious decision to bring them back for every race. In any event, there's no reason to create a new one for a faction that already has/had one, out in the middle of a continent we aren't even actively exploring anymore.

Zandalari, Kul Tiran, Dark Iron Dwarves, and Mechnagnomes all have capital cities.
You can add Nightborne too. Hightmoutain is arguable.

So, even giving you the benefit of doubt, 5 of the 10 allied races had capital cities. Argubly six.

Void Elves, Lightforged Draenei, Mag'har Orcs and Vulpera all don't have a capital city.

[Seranthor]

And this makes no sense.

Bolvar is NOT living normal human, I think you are viewing him as an alliance human, use the information about him, he is the Lord of the undead, you don't get more qualified to lead the undead faction. ..

I get it, you desperately want to hear YOUR opinion come out of MY mouth... Newsflash... it isn't going to happen... neither is your poorly written fan fiction.

[iamthedevil]

I would say what remains of Bolvars former alignments, he's more Alliance than Horde.

So were all the Forsaken...

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Why in the world would he want to lead the people that lead him to being a charred and stuck between life/dead?

I'd say it's more the fault of Arthas.

Anyways, no, I see him leading the Ebon Blade, that's all.

[ravenmoon]

A) I agree with this guy. Alliance questing in Kul'tiras has some heavy ties to Bolvar via introducing daughter to the mix. Furthermore longtime alliance players have Nostalgia for Bolvar that simply doesn't exist for longtime horde players, who never really got to know him or interact with him. Bolvar is the alliance equivalent of Saurfang. They both just started as generic NPCs standing in Vanilla Stormwind/Orgrimmar, who only rose to prominent roles through the respect of vanilla players. Bolvar dying at Wrathgate meant something to the Alliance. The horde didn't really care. Our half of the story focused on Saurfang (though, his son died, rather than he himself).

B) As the leader of the Ebon Blade, Bolvar more or less has to remain neutral, because his current followers are already split 50/50 between the factions. For Bolvar to take a side, the Ebon Blade would have to take a side, and that can't happen the way the game is setup.

C) RE: "Icecrown could be their capital" - Racial Capitals? What is this Vanilla? Racial Capitals haven't been a thing since Burning Crusade. Ugh, I guess TECHNICALLY the Zandalari & Kul'Tirans each have one right now... but, that's more a matter of the way this expansion's story of faction divide was set up. Not a conscious decision to bring them back for every race. In any event, there's no reason to create a new one for a faction that already has/had one, out in the middle of a continent we aren't even actively exploring anymore.

D) I feel like every logical thread points to Calia being their leader. She's technically the princess of Lordaeron. The Forsaken are technically the people of Lordaeron. She is the ruler of Undercity and its people by birthright, even if she hasn't stepped up to claim it. She's set up a LITTLE BIT more in every patch to be the catalyst that brings peace to the undead's tortured existence... I admit, it's still entirely possible they throw a curveball and she doesn't end up leading them. Especially since, much like Bolvar, people tend to see her as more Alliance than Horde. BUT... at least in the vague preliminary sense... it makes all the sense in the world for her to lead them.

*Shrug* Iunno

A) I don't think matters, it's like when Sylvanas becamse leader of the forsaken while her people were still in the alliance, and when they joined the horde, she didn't rejoin them. Bovlar is undead, his daughter replaces him on the alliance, he has a different role since WotLK, he leads the undead. You don't get more suitable for that than Bovlar.

b) THis is not a hinderance, the scourge is also neutral. If Bolvar leads the forsaken as their new leader, i assume thehorde DKs remain, andt he alliance DKS form their separate body or join Calia if they indead make the Lightforged undead an alliance race. To counter the Ebon Blade going horde, the Illidari go alliance, with the Blood elf ones choosing to lead a faction of Fel elves and do their own thing.. tHe night elf ones we will call Illidari, which we always have, and the blood elf ones we willc all Fel elves, which we always have.

C). It's cool for races to have a capital, it's a key part fo the fantasy, a city is a key part of a race's identity, and nearly all races have, plus the game has enough race related assetse to give every homelss race a city except for maybe the Vulpera.(this would not have been a problem if the Sethrak were the allied race

D) It is looking like that. Calia has the pediigree, But bolvar is a better candidate imo. He just looks the part. I do expect calia to be a Lightforged undead racial leader. The difference ofc, is that Calia hasn't been establisehd as a leader of anone, Bolvar has ruled the undead for years now.