1. #1

    Could YoggSaron explain the Nerubian / Maldraxxus architecture retcon?

    The non existant plot line about Yoggy being the God of Death (despite the forshadowing of Saronite and the reasons the Scourge used it so much) was always a sticking point for me in WotLK. Now that we see that Maldraxxus inspired Scourge architecture despite it being inspired by Nerubians. I am wondering if there is a chance here to fix that earlier plot issue.

    Could Yoggs connection to death, and maybe possibly the Shadowlands have shaped the Aqir to their spider forms and given them visions of Maldraxxus? Could this be the explanation for the similarities? While also finally giving us the hinted lore that Blizz admitted they never clearly explained (e.g. the connection between the Lich King and YoggSaron).

    Another idea is that the presence of YoggSaron weakened the veil in Icecrown.
    Last edited by Salty Schro; 2020-01-21 at 12:51 PM.

  2. #2
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    Probably easier to just say that Maldraxxus inspired Nerubian architecture somehow, or that the Scourge combined Nerubian and Maldraxxan architecture (as later Scourge aesthetics kind of part ways from the earlier Nerubian influences shown in Naxxramas).
    "I remember what I told you, but I can't remember why. The moon is turning red and bleeding through the sky. Absolution, redemption, salvation at the end - when justice is served don't expect me to attend." - Trust Obey, "Raymond Chandler Evening"

  3. #3
    You got it in reverse. The gateway to the Shadowlands always existed in Icecrown. Lich King was placed directly on this conduit in order to fuel his powers. Yogg Saron, on the other hand, since being imprisoned, was slowly burrowing under Northrend, eventually reaching the place of current ICC as well. Connecting to the gateway granted him his deathly powers. It also influenced his decision making regarding Nerubians. In essence, he got death-corrupted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    When an orc eats an orc, two orcs rip out of the orcs stomach, they eat each other and a brand new orc walks through the door, and then his chest explodes and 20 full grown orcs crawl out of his body. They then eat each other and the bodies until there are 3 orcs left. The mystery of the orc reproduction cycle.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafoel View Post
    You got it in reverse. The gateway to the Shadowlands always existed in Icecrown. Lich King was placed directly on this conduit in order to fuel his powers. Yogg Saron, on the other hand, since being imprisoned, was slowly burrowing under Northrend, eventually reaching the place of current ICC as well. Connecting to the gateway granted him his deathly powers. It also influenced his decision making regarding Nerubians. In essence, he got death-corrupted.
    But how do you know that it has always existed? How do we know that YoggSaron isn't the reason for the veils weakness in that location? Yogg being in Icecrown is among the oldest history we have about early Azeroth.

  5. #5
    The connection between Yogg-Saron and the forces of Death stretches back way further than the Lich King. Vordrassil (4,500 BDP) and Galakrond (10,000+ BDP) are both examples of Death-aligned (specifically, anti-Life) forces being active in Northrend. As @Rafoel pointed out, the veil was weakest in Northrend already which is why the Dreadlords placed Nerzhul there at the Lich King's creation. It seems Shadowlands is set to iterate on the role of the just-very-cool Dreadlords mysterious origins, but between their newly established connection to the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne, and their pre-existing knowledge of the "thin veil" in Northrend, they seem to know more about the Death realm than ever confirmed before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Schro View Post
    But how do you know that it has always existed? How do we know that YoggSaron isn't the reason for the veils weakness in that location? Yogg being in Icecrown is among the oldest history we have about early Azeroth.
    We don't know for sure that the veil was weakest there as it's only been suggested in interviews which aren't canon. We won't get confirmation until the pre-patch probably. But the facts that we do know are that Icecrown Glacier was chosen by the Dreadlords as the place the Lich King should go, that his powers were beyond what Kil'jaeden anticipated (which implies that the Dreadlords knew something Kil'jaeden didn't) and that being on the glacier magnified his psychic powers globally. So we can assume there's something special about ICC.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by thesmall001 View Post
    The connection between Yogg-Saron and the forces of Death stretches back way further than the Lich King. Vordrassil (4,500 BDP) and Galakrond (10,000+ BDP) are both examples of Death-aligned (specifically, anti-Life) forces being active in Northrend. As @Rafoel pointed out, the veil was weakest in Northrend already which is why the Dreadlords placed Nerzhul there at the Lich King's creation. It seems Shadowlands is set to iterate on the role of the just-very-cool Dreadlords mysterious origins, but between their newly established connection to the Helm of Domination and Frostmourne, and their pre-existing knowledge of the "thin veil" in Northrend, they seem to know more about the Death realm than ever confirmed before.

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    We don't know for sure that the veil was weakest there as it's only been suggested in interviews which aren't canon. We won't get confirmation until the pre-patch probably. But the facts that we do know are that Icecrown Glacier was chosen by the Dreadlords as the place the Lich King should go, that his powers were beyond what Kil'jaeden anticipated (which implies that the Dreadlords knew something Kil'jaeden didn't) and that being on the glacier magnified his psychic powers globally. So we can assume there's something special about ICC.
    Which doesn't contradict what I am saying as both examples you give don't predate YoggSarons imprisonment. As you mentioned Northrend has deep connections to death, it seems very likely that this connection is literally due to the god of death being trapped there.

  7. #7
    The Old Gods' titles are just self proclaimed and are not what they represent for...

    It's like a kid saying they're the King of the Hill. Doesn't make them any King...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    The Old Gods' titles are just self proclaimed and are not what they represent for...

    It's like a kid saying they're the King of the Hill. Doesn't make them any King...
    The Old Gods do have some exceptional circumstances relating to their existence though. None of the other Old Gods employed wide-scale Decay/Necrotic magic in their schemes except for Yogg-Saron, whose plots directly counteracted the forces of Life in the balance of things (Emerald Nightmare, Andra/Vordrassil, Galakrond). N'zoth employed far more Elemental magic than the others (Deathwing [Earth], Naga [Water], Tol'vir [Air] and Ragnaros [Fire]). Y'shaarj seemed to favour a perversion of Spirit/Life magic, the Sha lingering as manifestations of people's Chi (Spirit) and the relative free-will of his chosen Aqir (the Mantid) seem to indicate this (Spirit is frequently acquainted with free-will in WoW). C'thun seems to have been the most chaotic of the Old Gods, with less ability to plot and "orchestrate" his forces than the others, this could indicate his closest alignment with his Void powers.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by thesmall001 View Post
    The Old Gods do have some exceptional circumstances relating to their existence though. None of the other Old Gods employed wide-scale Decay/Necrotic magic in their schemes except for Yogg-Saron, whose plots directly counteracted the forces of Life in the balance of things (Emerald Nightmare, Andra/Vordrassil, Galakrond). N'zoth employed far more Elemental magic than the others (Deathwing [Earth], Naga [Water], Tol'vir [Air] and Ragnaros [Fire]). Y'shaarj seemed to favour a perversion of Spirit/Life magic, the Sha lingering as manifestations of people's Chi (Spirit) and the relative free-will of his chosen Aqir (the Mantid) seem to indicate this (Spirit is frequently acquainted with free-will in WoW). C'thun seems to have been the most chaotic of the Old Gods, with less ability to plot and "orchestrate" his forces than the others, this could indicate his closest alignment with his Void powers.
    If C'thun was developed now, I wonder if he would of had chaos magic or fel spells....

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Schro View Post
    The non existant plot line about Yoggy being the God of Death (despite the forshadowing of Saronite and the reasons the Scourge used it so much) was always a sticking point for me in WotLK. Now that we see that Maldraxxus inspired Scourge architecture despite it being inspired by Nerubians. I am wondering if there is a chance here to fix that earlier plot issue.

    Could Yoggs connection to death, and maybe possibly the Shadowlands have shaped the Aqir to their spider forms and given them visions of Maldraxxus? Could this be the explanation for the similarities? While also finally giving us the hinted lore that Blizz admitted they never clearly explained (e.g. the connection between the Lich King and YoggSaron).

    Another idea is that the presence of YoggSaron weakened the veil in Icecrown.
    good theory, they could totally explore yogg saron more in the next expansion, even if he is already dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafoel View Post
    You got it in reverse. The gateway to the Shadowlands always existed in Icecrown. Lich King was placed directly on this conduit in order to fuel his powers. Yogg Saron, on the other hand, since being imprisoned, was slowly burrowing under Northrend, eventually reaching the place of current ICC as well. Connecting to the gateway granted him his deathly powers. It also influenced his decision making regarding Nerubians. In essence, he got death-corrupted.
    yoggsaron never exhibited any death related powers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thesmall001 View Post
    The Old Gods do have some exceptional circumstances relating to their existence though. None of the other Old Gods employed wide-scale Decay/Necrotic magic in their schemes except for Yogg-Saron, whose plots directly counteracted the forces of Life in the balance of things (Emerald Nightmare, Andra/Vordrassil, Galakrond). N'zoth employed far more Elemental magic than the others (Deathwing [Earth], Naga [Water], Tol'vir [Air] and Ragnaros [Fire]). Y'shaarj seemed to favour a perversion of Spirit/Life magic, the Sha lingering as manifestations of people's Chi (Spirit) and the relative free-will of his chosen Aqir (the Mantid) seem to indicate this (Spirit is frequently acquainted with free-will in WoW). C'thun seems to have been the most chaotic of the Old Gods, with less ability to plot and "orchestrate" his forces than the others, this could indicate his closest alignment with his Void powers.
    when has yogg saron use death magic?? not saying he cant, but so far his title of god of death is nothing more than just that, a title.

    Nzoth didnt use elemental magic, he just used void magic to enslave the elements, we know old gods can do this.

    The sha just feed on negative emotions, which is another known characteristic of void creatures.

  11. #11
    If you look at the cosmo map that's in chronicle - The Emerald Dream is opposite to the Shadowlands. Considering there was supposed to be a deeper connection (Blizzard Words) between Yogg Saron and The Lich King, would it really be so hard to imagine that Yogg Saron has some influence in The Shadowlands? He corrupted the Emerald Dream and reached in to that realm, why not The Shadowlands?

    If you look below Icecrown Citadel down the big hole - it's clear Yogg Saron was trying to get beneath ICC - perhaps to deepen his connection to the ShadowLands as ICC is the place of power connected to The Shadowlands?

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