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  1. #1

    Now that we have five months of parses, any surprises in DPS?

    75th Percentile DPS for the following bosses Jan 20:

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...00/#dataset=75

    And I'm more interested in the guilds that are doing the fights "normally", not the epic speedrunners killing Shazzrah in 13 seconds (gratz Maximum Effort and some Russian Guild).

    Data seems to be similar to what I pulled out of dps meters from old warcraftmovies.com videos, with the trinity war/rogue/mage at the top and the meme specs doing about half of their dps. I guess I was slightly surprised by two things: hunters are doing pretty ok in Molten Core and warlocks are doing worse than I expected. (I'm guessing this is due to a lack of spell hit gear.)

    Lucifron:
    War 575
    Rogue 525
    Hunter 425
    Ret/Feral/Shadow/Warlock/Mage ~270
    Balance 210

    Magmadar:
    War/Rogue 525
    Hunter 410
    Mage/Priest/Lock 370
    Feral/Ret/Balance 300-234

    Garr:
    Rogue/War 450
    Hunter/Mage/Shadow 340
    Lock/Ret/Feral/Balance 290-220

    Geddon:
    Mage/Rogue/Hunter/Warlock/Shadow 350-300
    Warr 280
    Balance/Feral/Ret 200-150

    Golemagg:
    War 550
    Rogue 520
    Hunter 425
    Lock/Shadow/Mage 380
    Feral/Ret/Balance 350-240

    Domo:
    Rogue 390
    Warr 350
    Hunter 295
    Lock 270
    Shadow/Mage 250
    Ret/Balance Feral 220-168

    Ragnaros:
    Mage 395
    Rogue 385
    Hunter 355
    Lock 345
    Shadow 325
    Warr 300
    Feral/Balance/Ret 225-190

    25th percentile all bosses:
    Rogue 39 (score)
    Hunter 37.5
    Mage 31
    Lock 29
    Shadow 26.5
    Warr 23.20
    Ret 18.42
    Balance 16.68
    Feral 16.42

    No surprises there, warriors/rogues/mages are generally in the top, with mages a little lower than expected because of the decurse fights. Hunters did better than I thought, they were within 25% of the top on most fights. Warlocks probably suffer from a lack of spell hit at this point, they're typically 2/3 of the top DPS. Feral, Ret, and Balance are unsurprisingly not in a good place, in the bottom 3 on every Molten Core fight with a DPS roughly half the top DPS on multi-target fights and 2/3 the top DPS on single target fights.

    Warriors are highly gear dependent, and are clearly top dog at the 99th percentile, but steadily drop in performance as you look at lower percentiles, being in the middle around the 50th percentile of players.

    The 25th percentile represents players that are killing Rag in about 2:46, 15 seconds before submerge. Only the bottom 15% or so of parses have a Rag kill post-submerge. https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...2&metric=speed
    Reminders of what vanilla was like: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...nilla-was-like
    17 hazed on the Golemagg "cinematic": https://i.imgur.com/nlZM3cj.jpg

  2. #2
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Nothing surprising here, lines up pretty much identically with P Server parses.

    Remember that in Vanilla most average guilds weren't collecting world buffs before crushing MC so numbers are very skewed from what it was like in Vanilla.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  3. #3
    how are shadow priests doing on the shorter figths?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    how are shadow priests doing on the shorter figths?
    on par with warlocks, i.e bad compared to the good classes, but middle of the road overall.

  5. #5
    Feral numbers will be extremely skewed due to so many being specc'd for tanking. I did 356dps on our last Rag kill but that puts me into >90th percentile. This is without a flask or world buffs. Still not coming close to the top DPS classes but just something to consider.

    https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon.../1000#boss=672

  6. #6
    why are you looking at such low percentiles? i dont care what dps the shitters are doing.

  7. #7
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NihilSustinet View Post
    why are you looking at such low percentiles? i dont care what dps the shitters are doing.
    This is also true, it's not very hard to parse above 95% on most fights unless you get hosed by things like Baron or Rag RNG.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by NihilSustinet View Post
    why are you looking at such low percentiles? i dont care what dps the shitters are doing.
    I'm gonna be leading a PUG for BWL and I ain't gonna have the cream of the crop in my first run :-)

    Wrote the post to try and establish what "normal" is.
    Reminders of what vanilla was like: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...nilla-was-like
    17 hazed on the Golemagg "cinematic": https://i.imgur.com/nlZM3cj.jpg

  9. #9
    The Patient Rathwirt's Avatar
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    Warlocks are a bit low because they can't use their DoTs, need a spec that sucks outside of raids for top MC damage so most won't bother, and they have to keep curses up on the enemies, which might get resisted a few times as well. The amount they boost all those other specs damage is impressive, however. Still crucial to have.

  10. #10
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by NihilSustinet View Post
    why are you looking at such low percentiles? i dont care what dps the shitters are doing.
    As a Bernie supporter, you should be glad to share your top parses with the shitters or no?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    This is also true, it's not very hard to parse above 95% on most fights unless you get hosed by things like Baron or Rag RNG.
    This is really amusing: "it's not very hard to parse above 95% on most fights" because 95% of the players don't!
    “I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: ‘O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.’ And God granted it.” -- Voltaire

    "He who awaits much can expect little" -- Gabriel Garcia Marquez

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    This is also true, it's not very hard to parse above 95% on most fights unless you get hosed by things like Baron or Rag RNG.
    94% of people would disagree with you. The point of being 95% is that you are at the very top of the meters over everybody. All 11 million people that play classic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  12. #12
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scathbais View Post
    This is really amusing: "it's not very hard to parse above 95% on most fights" because 95% of the players don't!
    With a modicum of effort you can get a 95% parse easily, go try it. There are plenty of, for instance, Hunters who do nothing but autoshot in MC, or don't use a shot timer, etc. The same goes for any class.

    It's vastly easier to get a 95% parse over anything lower than it is to get a 96% parse over a 95% one. There's only so optimally that you can prep yourself and perform in Classic, and the top parses are all very close together so it mostly comes down to luck for 95%+.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    94% of people would disagree with you. The point of being 95% is that you are at the very top of the meters over everybody. All 11 million people that play classic.
    Which takes into account a ton of people that do MC with no world buffs, songflowers, DM buffs, etc. It also takes into account fresh 60's with no gear who obviously can't compete (of which there are a ton) and just happen to get into a MC PUG or are invited along on a guild run, fresh alts, etc. Not to mention taking into account parses by people who AFK on bosses, zone out and don't try for whatever reason, die early, or get hosed by stuff like getting multiple Baron bombs.

    The point being that the difference between hitting 95% parses routinely and hitting 75% parses routinely comes down to some very simple things most of the time: swing/shot timers, gear, and buffs/consumes. None of these three things require any real increase in skill, just prep and time invested.

    You get gear just by raiding so there's no actual improvement in gameplay to be made. You can download a swing/shot timer and immediately see an increase in DPS by not clipping AA's. You can see a massive increase in DPS by doing buff prep pre-raid. Just because most people don't do them doesn't mean that these aren't easy things to do.

    Then there's also the point that most decently geared raid groups are now doing high parse strats that aren't hard to perform but are only possible with a certain amount of raid gear.
    Last edited by jackofwind; 2020-01-21 at 08:45 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  13. #13
    When the stars align, our Feral druid is one of our best DPS. He was second on the meters against Ragnaros on one of our kills, behind the Fury Warrior by a margin, but ahead of everyone else. It was pretty impressive.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfrostzero View Post
    When the stars align, our Feral druid is one of our best DPS. He was second on the meters against Ragnaros on one of our kills, behind the Fury Warrior by a margin, but ahead of everyone else. It was pretty impressive.
    I could see relative placement becoming more consistent as crit values go up. But with these shorter lived fights in MC, burst is going to make a big difference for sure.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Rathwirt View Post
    Warlocks are a bit low because they can't use their DoTs, need a spec that sucks outside of raids for top MC damage so most won't bother, and they have to keep curses up on the enemies, which might get resisted a few times as well. The amount they boost all those other specs damage is impressive, however. Still crucial to have.
    Much like shaman contribution shows up in warrior/rogue numbers...

  16. #16
    Seems about right.
    Warlocks start weak (except in PvP) and by Naxx are really good, Hunters start off stronger and get weaker over time in comparison to better scaling specs, so those shouldn't be too surprising.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jackofwind View Post
    This is also true, it's not very hard to parse above 95% on most fights unless you get hosed by things like Baron or Rag RNG.
    Oh dear......surely you understand how strange this comment is.

  18. #18
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Oh dear......surely you understand how strange this comment is.
    Go look at my responses earlier in the thread and understand.

    TL;DR - Parsing high in Classic is about prep, RNG and gear. It's not about skill, and none of the prep is hard - this means it can't be difficult. It's just that 95% of the people who have parsed in MC either aren't trying at all, have no gear, did no prep, died early, or are basically braindead.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    how are shadow priests doing on the shorter figths?
    Well technically if the majority of spriests went full out they'd be competing with top dps.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    94% of people would disagree with you. The point of being 95% is that you are at the very top of the meters over everybody. All 11 million people that play classic.
    11 Million? I am always curious where people find these numbers YEARS after Blizz stopped making them public. Also, it depends on what you are after. I am confident, that every person of average intelligence can reach easily 95percentiles. I all comes down to how much time you invest into researching your class/getting consumeables. So yes, something only 5% of the playerbase achieves can still be easy.

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