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  1. #41
    Main problem with changes is that it proves the oft repeated mantra of "you think you want it, but you don't".
    And yes, maybe these are the final changes, but it is still a change to the actual classic experience done to better emulate it in spirit. Which is a slippery slope as you can apply that to every instance of the game, like tuning raids higher.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Sentynel View Post
    LOL, while you're at it, using wowhead, youtube guides, high speed internet and a million other things also weren't in classic. Jesus fucking Christ.
    Thottbot was a thing in classic, which was the precursor of wowhead. It was used to find exact locations of certain quests etc etc.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Main problem with changes is that it proves the oft repeated mantra of "you think you want it, but you don't".
    And yes, maybe these are the final changes, but it is still a change to the actual classic experience done to better emulate it in spirit. Which is a slippery slope as you can apply that to every instance of the game, like tuning raids higher.
    Crossrealm AV premades were not a thing in vanilla, and these premades ruined games for people solo queuing as Alliance. It was a required change, but way too late showing the ineptitude of blizzard.

    I still expect AV to be the best way to get honour next week, unless you can put together a super WSG team that barely loses.

    Changes were made before Classic even launched, people just say #nochanges for the lols.
    Last edited by Tekkommo; 2020-01-24 at 09:50 AM.

  4. #44
    Not sure if it was answered yet. But does anyone else think that this only benefits the horde and will actually hurt the alliance?

    I'll explain. Good ally premades have near 100% win rate. Ally pugs have damn near 0% win rate. The only wins they get is when they snipe a premade. Horde pugs have near 50% win rate. Wins depending on if they queue into an ally premades or not.

    Now with these changes, if ally cant premade as well, they will move to WSG. So all the good players on ally side still arent in AV. Which means the pugs have no premades to snipe. This will result in a near 100% win rate for horde and 0% for ally. But now horde just have an even longer queue.

    Am I missing something?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Not sure if it was answered yet. But does anyone else think that this only benefits the horde and will actually hurt the alliance?

    I'll explain. Good ally premades have near 100% win rate. Ally pugs have damn near 0% win rate. The only wins they get is when they snipe a premade. Horde pugs have near 50% win rate. Wins depending on if they queue into an ally premades or not.

    Now with these changes, if ally cant premade as well, they will move to WSG. So all the good players on ally side still arent in AV. Which means the pugs have no premades to snipe. This will result in a near 100% win rate for horde and 0% for ally. But now horde just have an even longer queue.

    Am I missing something?
    Well one major thing your missing is that WSG requires actual PVP, and many of these AV premades are infested with opportunist PVE players without any actual skill in PVP. They clog up the rankings because there is 0 barrier to entry.

    Then the second thing that may change is that if horde has longer AV queues because ally is now doing WSG they might start premading WSG more for the shorter queues as well.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Not sure if it was answered yet. But does anyone else think that this only benefits the horde and will actually hurt the alliance?

    I'll explain. Good ally premades have near 100% win rate. Ally pugs have damn near 0% win rate. The only wins they get is when they snipe a premade. Horde pugs have near 50% win rate. Wins depending on if they queue into an ally premades or not.

    Now with these changes, if ally cant premade as well, they will move to WSG. So all the good players on ally side still arent in AV. Which means the pugs have no premades to snipe. This will result in a near 100% win rate for horde and 0% for ally. But now horde just have an even longer queue.

    Am I missing something?
    We will just have to wait and see.

    I think AV will still be good for honour, and perhaps the Horde will stop turtling so much and we get quicker games. When the Horde defend with 30+ people in base you end up having 30-40+ mins games. I expect the Horde to win most games, but as long as Ally can cap towers and kill lieutenants, that's fine, you only compete against Ally for honour anyway.

    You don't even have to be a good player to win AV, just need to stick together and know what the PVE objectives/tactics are. It's a mindless grind.

    Anyone know what the average honour per hour is for WSG, say with a 50% win rate?

    The premade server I use are going to be doing WSG premades, but I think that will be a shit show. Guilds like APES will probably do WSG.

    But yeah, it's a bigger benefit for Horde, unless you're an Ally who queues solo.

    I also expect an addon to be created that shows AV numbers.
    Last edited by Tekkommo; 2020-01-24 at 12:56 PM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    We will just have to wait and see.

    I think AV will still be good for honour, and perhaps the Horde will stop turtling so much and we get quicker games. When the Horde defend with 30+ people in base you end up having 30-40+ mins games. I expect the Horde to win most games, but as long as Ally can cap towers and kill lieutenants, that's fine, you only compete against Ally for honour anyway.

    You don't even have to be a good player to win AV, just need to stick together and know what the PVE objectives/tactics are. It's a mindless grind.

    Anyone know what the average honour per hour is for WSG, say with a 50% win rate?

    The premade server I use are going to be doing WSG premades, but I think that will be a shit show. Guilds like APES will probably do WSG.

    But yeah, it's a bigger benefit for Horde, unless you're an Ally who queues solo.
    I'm personally not worried about honor at all. If you raid you should already have better gear than the blue pvp gear. And i find the epic pvp gear to be a huge waste of time. I missed the rep farming the first few days and now I'm stuck at halfway thru honored. In pugs with 30 min games and no wins, I'm lucky to get 500 honor an hour. In 1 premade snipe, I'm making 500 honor. At 27000 rep to go, I'm looking at 54 more hours of AV and I'm debating if it's really worth it tbh.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    The #NoChanges 'movement' has always been a laughing stock. They have absolutely no backbone, and most level headed individuals knew that was the case from day 1. They are all talk, 'we will speak with our wallets and quit the moment any changes are made'. The reality is they make more excuses than anyone for Blizzard with every additional change. This is very clearly a massive change, no matter which way you frame it, and to say otherwise is disingenuous at best, and downright dishonest at worst.
    Couldn't agree more. Here we are though with them saying "well I agree with THIS change" which is ridiculous. I've not done a single premade game as a Horde Warrior Tank and I win my games regardless. I could care less about this change in the long run, but anyone saying it is now more in line with Vanilla is talking out of their ass. Blizzard didn't take action against guilds or groups doing this, they turned a blind eye until Wrath. This is the reason why RBGs were asked for in the first place. Maybe they should be implemented since the tech wasn't there yet at the time, but it would be "in line" with what Blizzard was thinking at the time.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I'm personally not worried about honor at all. If you raid you should already have better gear than the blue pvp gear. And i find the epic pvp gear to be a huge waste of time. I missed the rep farming the first few days and now I'm stuck at halfway thru honored. In pugs with 30 min games and no wins, I'm lucky to get 500 honor an hour. In 1 premade snipe, I'm making 500 honor. At 27000 rep to go, I'm looking at 54 more hours of AV and I'm debating if it's really worth it tbh.
    If you have an epic mount and are just after rep, join a premade discord and get it done this week.

    But I fully expect AVs to increase greatly for Alliance that solo queue next week.
    Last edited by Tekkommo; 2020-01-24 at 01:06 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfrostzero View Post
    Couldn't agree more. Here we are though with them saying "well I agree with THIS change" which is ridiculous. I've not done a single premade game as a Horde Warrior Tank and I win my games regardless. I could care less about this change in the long run, but anyone saying it is now more in line with Vanilla is talking out of their ass. Blizzard didn't take action against guilds or groups doing this, they turned a blind eye until Wrath. This is the reason why RBGs were asked for in the first place. Maybe they should be implemented since the tech wasn't there yet at the time, but it would be "in line" with what Blizzard was thinking at the time.
    Are you talking about AV? Cause if so no shit you havent done a single premade game. Cause that's not an option for the horde lol. Horde win against pugs. Horde lose against most semi competent premades. Saying you get wins is obvious. I'd like you to try pugging AV as ally.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    If you have an epic mount and are just after rep, join a premade discord and get it done this week.
    All the good ones require high ranks as well. Fucked around in one of the lower tier ones and they are still a mess lol. I just queue for the bottom AV when new ones pop and have like a 25% success rate at sniping one of the good ones.

  11. #51
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post

    AV changes! Bliz listened.


    These fixes are great.
    Whoop-dee-doop...they listened, which means everyone now is happy. Because that is one of the big complaints..how they NEVER listen to the COMMUNITY or PLAYERBASE.

    So great. Then I shat myself laughing because in comes as post number 5:

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpha View Post
    So the Alliance AV will be even worse, gg blizz.
    Yep OP...all Blizzard needs to do is "listen" and immediately everything is fixed and everyone is happy ^^ - Then why is this thread full of ppl arguing and calling each other out?
    Last edited by det; 2020-01-24 at 01:10 PM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    All the good ones require high ranks as well. Fucked around in one of the lower tier ones and they are still a mess lol. I just queue for the bottom AV when new ones pop and have like a 25% success rate at sniping one of the good ones.
    I thought VIP X-Realm II would still be better than pugging.

    It really all depends on how the Horde play, if they mass turtle, even the Royal (rank 10+) queues can struggle.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    I thought VIP X-Realm II would still be better than pugging.

    It really all depends on how the Horde play, if they mass turtle, even the Royal (rank 10+) queues can struggle.
    Ya I think ima just hold off on the grind for now, and see of the changes actually help. I dont mind the long grind as long as I have a chance to win. But the thought of having to do 100 or so more games where every pug is a loss where no one even gets south, is killing me. If win rates were closer to 50% it would be a lot more fun.

  14. #54
    The Lightbringer Twoddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Whoop-dee-doop...they listened, which means everyone now is happy. Because that is one of the big complaints..how they NEVER listen to the COMMUNITY or PLAYERBASE.
    Lol Blizzard don't listen at all, they make whatever changes they want, if that change turns out to be what people were asking they say "We listened".

    That's the way it's always been.

  15. #55
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twoddle View Post
    Lol Blizzard don't listen at all, they make whatever changes they want, if that change turns out to be what people were asking they say "We listened".

    That's the way it's always been.
    Be that as it may...but something triggered the change. I mean...for example why do we suddenly get more rep, more visions and mementos from quests in assault zones? I know that I complained (but I did it here, so I certainly wouldn't claim they listened to me)

    But yeah...I get the problem surrounding these claims as they also work the other way round, when Blizzard gets ptr feedback and doesn't act on it for whatever reasons. Then ppl will go "we gave tons of great feedback". I wonder who decided it was "great"?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Are you talking about AV? Cause if so no shit you havent done a single premade game. Cause that's not an option for the horde lol. Horde win against pugs. Horde lose against most semi competent premades. Saying you get wins is obvious. I'd like you to try pugging AV as ally.
    Not sure why I couldn't have done a premade as a Horde? There are plenty of them that run, but I chose not to join them. I have only lost 2 of the AVs I've ever done regardless of Alliance being a premade or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twoddle View Post
    Lol Blizzard don't listen at all, they make whatever changes they want, if that change turns out to be what people were asking they say "We listened".

    That's the way it's always been.
    I mean, I suggested once (through the in-game suggestion box when they added it) that they allow early access to Monks so people didn't have to sit and grind from 1-100 and catch up to their friends like in BC as a Horde Paladin because you're suddenly days/weeks behind getting ready to raid/PVP.

    When DH came out, and now with DKs and allied races they have done that. So sometimes they listen?
    Last edited by Coldfrostzero; 2020-01-24 at 03:32 PM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfrostzero View Post
    Not sure why I couldn't have done a premade as a Horde? There are plenty of them that run, but I chose not to join them. I have only lost 2 of the AVs I've ever done regardless of Alliance being a premade or not.



    I mean, I suggested once (through the in-game suggestion box when they added it) that they allow early access to Monks so people didn't have to sit and grind from 1-100 and catch up to their friends like in BC as a Horde Paladin because you're suddenly days/weeks behind getting ready to raid/PVP.

    When DH came out, and now with DKs and allied races they have done that. So sometimes they listen?
    Explain how horde can premade for AV and get 25+ ppl in the same AV.

  18. #58
    since they are doing these stupid changes why not buff alliance racials for pvp.......

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Not sure if it was answered yet. But does anyone else think that this only benefits the horde and will actually hurt the alliance?

    I'll explain. Good ally premades have near 100% win rate. Ally pugs have damn near 0% win rate. The only wins they get is when they snipe a premade. Horde pugs have near 50% win rate. Wins depending on if they queue into an ally premades or not.

    Now with these changes, if ally cant premade as well, they will move to WSG. So all the good players on ally side still arent in AV. Which means the pugs have no premades to snipe. This will result in a near 100% win rate for horde and 0% for ally. But now horde just have an even longer queue.

    Am I missing something?
    Yup, and you forgot the nerf to DR on HK that will please the horde. Now they can camp flight paths for even longer for better honor. Menethil Harbor might make a return as the best BG for horde since their AV queue time will explode with the removal of thousands of alliance players and games lasting forever with people just farming kills mid for the first 30min. WSG queue time should be shorter, but it will be full of premade teams now. Not sure how the Alliance ranekrs will deal with fightning Horde premades.

  20. #60
    Oh cool changes, I look forward to the more coming across Classic now that Blizzard are already caving to the community's wishes.

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