AV changes! Bliz listened.

[Hinastorm]

These fixes are great. Adding the 5 person queue option was a great addition as well. The current state of AV is horrendous, and i'm glad they realized that it needed to be fixed.

Notice me using the word fix, not change, because ranking in AV was never a thing in vanilla, so this is not a change, more of a fix.

I only hope this moves the rankers into WSG, but we'll see on that.

[enigma77]

It's a good change, but it is indeed a change. Anything that was possible back then, if the game is to be unchanged, should also be possible now.

[Hinastorm]

It's a good change, but it is indeed a change. Anything that was possible back then, if the game is to be unchanged, should also be possible now.

No changes was always more about the spirit of it. Discord AV premades were not in the spirit of classic.

[Warning]

It's a good change, but it is indeed a change. Anything that was possible back then, if the game is to be unchanged, should also be possible now.

No changes is a dumb idea and I'm glad Blizzard abandoned it. Lets say we suddenly find an exploit that was present but never found in 2005 that allows you to oneshot any boss. That exploit should be fixed, even if it existed back then. Similarly things that come up now that really screw up the game, like the premade meta should be addressed.

[Serpha]

So the Alliance AV will be even worse, gg blizz.

[Coldfrostzero]

AV premades were a thing though. Saying they weren't is false. They were a thing up until Wrath when they stopped displaying which AV/AB/WSG/whatever you were queued into. It was intended to have more debuff slots than 16 in vanilla, but they didn't change that. It would still been "in line" with their thinking back then, but that doesn't change. Not to mention, the people who benefited from this already got away with a lot of it with no punishment.

The "no changes" crowd should be losing their mind about this. It's stupid of them to say changes are made "in spirit" or "in line" with thinking back then, but nothing is done about the things they couldn't change that they would have. Either no changes or let's get some changes that make sense for the health of the game too.

[arkanon]

AV premades were a thing though. Saying they weren't is false. They were a thing up until Wrath when they stopped displaying which AV/AB/WSG/whatever you were queued into. It was intended to have more debuff slots than 16 in vanilla, but they didn't change that. It would still been "in line" with their thinking back then, but that doesn't change. Not to mention, the people who benefited from this already got away with a lot of it with no punishment.

The "no changes" crowd should be losing their mind about this. It's stupid of them to say changes are made "in spirit" or "in line" with thinking back then, but nothing is done about the things they couldn't change that they would have. Either no changes or let's get some changes that make sense for the health of the game too.

The #NoChanges 'movement' has always been a laughing stock. They have absolutely no backbone, and most level headed individuals knew that was the case from day 1. They are all talk, 'we will speak with our wallets and quit the moment any changes are made'. The reality is they make more excuses than anyone for Blizzard with every additional change. This is very clearly a massive change, no matter which way you frame it, and to say otherwise is disingenuous at best, and downright dishonest at worst.

[Utrrabbit]

It will actually get better. This change actually benefits alliance more than horde and makes it easier to rank.

[Majestic12]

No changes was always more about the spirit of it. Discord AV premades were not in the spirit of classic.

This still doesn't stop them. They have hundreds of people queing at the same time, only now in 5 man grps. They can still pop games and get loads of people inside.

Private servers tried Blizzard's solution too and it didn't stop anyone.

[Utrrabbit]

The original nochanges was never about buffing or fixing stuff that clearly wasnt working.

It was always about going back to the original game design

Original classes
Original quests
Original raids
No flying
First mount at 40
Etc.

It was never about blizzard implementing hotfixes to deal with rising issues.

The people sprouting nochanges now do not understand the originak intent and are completely false with their idea of what it means.

[munkeyinorbit]

These fixes are great. Adding the 5 person queue option was a great addition as well. The current state of AV is horrendous, and i'm glad they realized that it needed to be fixed.

Notice me using the word fix, not change, because ranking in AV was never a thing in vanilla, so this is not a change, more of a fix.

I only hope this moves the rankers into WSG, but we'll see on that.

Another thread about a change that OP likes dressed up as a bug fix. That is what a fix is. First it was the gy change. Now it's the group and label thing. What about the raid difficulty? Will you still be calling it a fix? Or will you pull your pitchforks out then. What about druids rezzing capabilities? Paladins taunt? Doing away with 16 debuff slots? Where does it end?

To be fair I agree with all the changes I have listed. I think it would make the game better. But the question is how far is too far. How many changes until we get ourselves into retail territory? Is it basic QoL changes like the ones listed. Is it reducing the cost of respec? Is it dual spec? Maybe it is a blizzard backed group finder. Maybe it's the LFD system we have now. There are 1000 different answers to that question and that is why it is absolutely stupid to make any changes at all. The line had already been drawn in the sand and now we are seeing that line move. We cannot trust Blizzard to make any changes and we cannot trust ourselves. This is the beginning of the end.

[arkanon]

The original nochanges was never about buffing or fixing stuff that clearly wasnt working.

It was always about going back to the original game design

Original classes
Original quests
Original raids
No flying
First mount at 40
Etc.

It was never about blizzard implementing hotfixes to deal with rising issues.

The people sprouting nochanges now do not understand the originak intent and are completely false with their idea of what it means.

I completely disagree with your personal opinion on what #NoChanges means.

- - - Updated - - -

Another thread about a change that OP likes dressed up as a bug fix. That is what a fix is. First it was the gy change. Now it's the group and label thing. What about the raid difficulty? Will you still be calling it a fix? Or will you pull your pitchforks out then. What about druids rezzing capabilities? Paladins taunt? Doing away with 16 debuff slots? Where does it end?

To be fair I agree with all the changes I have listed. I think it would make the game better. But the question is how far is too far. How many changes until we get ourselves into retail territory? Is it basic QoL changes like the ones listed. Is it reducing the cost of respec? Is it dual spec? Maybe it is a blizzard backed group finder. Maybe it's the LFD system we have now. There are 1000 different answers to that question and that is why it is absolutely stupid to make any changes at all. The line had already been drawn in the sand and now we are seeing that line move. We cannot trust Blizzard to make any changes and we cannot trust ourselves. This is the beginning of the end.

Based on the response from the community, they secretly all wanted changes all along. Nothing but excuses and praise for every change Blizzard makes.

[Utrrabbit]

Than you are wrong. I don't know what to say. But you are.

[Akasha64]

These fixes are great. Adding the 5 person queue option was a great addition as well. The current state of AV is horrendous, and i'm glad they realized that it needed to be fixed.

Notice me using the word fix, not change, because ranking in AV was never a thing in vanilla, so this is not a change, more of a fix.

I only hope this moves the rankers into WSG, but we'll see on that.

Ranking in AV absolutely was a thing in Vanilla. This should even the playing field a bit though.

[Sentynel]

No changes was always more about the spirit of it. Discord AV premades were not in the spirit of classic.

LOL, while you're at it, using wowhead, youtube guides, high speed internet and a million other things also weren't in classic. Jesus fucking Christ.

[Spazlord]

Good change.

[Fancydress]

No changes was always more about the spirit of it. Discord AV premades were not in the spirit of classic.

Yeah. It looks like the promised BWL buff is coming now. Blizzard are not afraid to adjust the way Classic players consume their content.

[Nurvus]

It's simple.

No changes means no changes - exactly as it was - for better and for worse.

However, the sad truth is that Classic will never be Vanilla.
We cannot unlearn what we have learned all these years.

There's pretty much nothing to discover anymore - all has been done and everyone is running around with optimal efficiency and builds.

So even though I enjoyed playing with old mechanics like Seals, Totems and Hunter Pets, the only really good thing about Classic is how it can serve as feedback and what lessons Blizzard can learn from it to bring to Retail.

[garicasha]

There was no chance, precisely zero, they were going to let AV be the way it currently is now. Horde get crushed in 7 minutes by Tier 2 premades, and in turn crush into the stonehearth graveyard any pugs. The only remotely competitive games were Tier 1 premades v Horde pugs. (And depending on time of day, favored both Alliance and Horde).

These changes are the least disruptive thing they could have done, and hopefully they'll have the intended effect.

[Kagthul]

It's a good change, but it is indeed a change. Anything that was possible back then, if the game is to be unchanged, should also be possible now.

The "change" is to prevent behaviour that was against the ToS then; it was -rare- then, so they simply handed out suspensions to people violating the ToS who were caught.

If the behaviour had been as common in vanilla as it is now, they'd have made this change.

But hey, if you want to stick to #nochanges, im game.

Gonna be a LOT of salty Alliance players when they get handed six month account suspensions for ToS violations.

But im down.

- - - Updated - - -

LOL, while you're at it, using wowhead,

Thottbot, Allakhazam

youtube guides,

Warcraft Videos guides

high speed internet

Lolwut i had 25/5 Mb Cable in 2000.

and a million other things also weren't in classic.

Such as?

Discord?

Teamspeak and Ventrilo would like a word.

Chatrooms?

AIM and ICQ would like a word.

Keep on keepin on though.

- - - Updated - - -

No changes is a dumb idea and I'm glad Blizzard abandoned it.

Except they didn't but in the most VERY technical sense.

This behaviour was against the ToS even in Vanilla. People caught doing it got suspended/banned. Entire guilds got banned for doing it.

However, it was nowhere near as rampant, so handing out suspensions/bans was enough of a deterrent.

IF it had been as pervasive in Vanilla as it is in Classic, they would have made this change in Vanilla , because its a time-saving alternative (and customer-serving alternative) to just banning about 50% of the Ally playerbase.

Lets say we suddenly find an exploit that was present but never found in 2005 that allows you to oneshot any boss. That exploit should be fixed, even if it existed back then. Similarly things that come up now that really screw up the game, like the premade meta should be addressed.

Exactwy