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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Nothing arbitrary at all. "The game has ALWAYS been like this" is straight ignoring the magnitude and nuance that exists within the situation. That's called an appeal to tradition. Just because the game has always had dumb shit like this doesn't mean it should continue to, and it doesn't mean it wasn't less pronounced in the past, either
    You just got done saying that it has always existed. It is just more work to set up the insane parses. I am not ignoring any nuance that exists with in the situation. Insane parses have always required luck or setup. Nothing has changed about it that with the game. Only the tools you use to get those insane parses have changed. And if you are interested in top parsing you either aim for "normal" game play ranking or "set up" game play ranking.

    You keep trying to claim you were the first while arguing the second ruins the game with corruption. A mechanic you won't even experience yet still hurts your ego apparently. Because you wouldn't be able to obtain it even if you were playing since your support system isn't good enough. This isn't a corruption issue. It is a you issue.

    The only reason why a few can do insane parses now is because corruption hasn't equalized yet. Further into the expansion more will be getting good corruptions, or stacking different combinations, where these early crazy parses are meaningless. Unless you are an ex-player with ego issues.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    This isn't a corruption issue. It is a you issue.
    Completely an issue caused by corruption.

    If they would go back to tier gear, a'la WOTLK, this conversation would be nonexistent.

    The only reason why a few can do insane parses now is because corruption hasn't equalized yet.
    False. All that needs to be is the possibility for me to see it as faulty, but I'm willing to wager there will be live cases as well... whereby someone out there won't get the parse they would if gear were a non-issue. Which is to say they won't get the parse they deserve.

    Further into the expansion more will be getting good corruptions, or stacking different combinations, where these early crazy parses are meaningless. Unless you are an ex-player with ego issues.
    Unless you think there will eventually be a point where everyone is capped out and cannot possibly get any more corruption, and they also have enough resistance to make corruption's negatives 0 or near 0, this won't be the case and there will always be disparity. I suppose they ARE leaving players hanging for a FULL FUCKING YEAR, so maybe we will get there? Idk. I'm not willing to wait that long. Competition is best and most fierce when it's fresh. 3 months is when raid tiers start to lose interest.

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    In fact if you don't have a good corrupted piece I seriously question how much content you do.
    Feel free to question.
    Also feel free to look up RNG on your search engine of choice, and calculate the chances of getting a decent corruption trait per M+ run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    I'm slowing coming around to the corruption system. The issue is the acquisition method being randomized. However, it is an improvement on Titanforging.

    Here's why:

    - There's a cap on how much corruption you can realistically use without significantly impacting your group by getting yourself in trouble
    That's the big upside of the system, I really can't complain about that, it's actually a fairly good idea.
    What irks me is the 7000% difference between the lowest and highest trait (for single target DH).

  4. #604
    Isn't it wonderful when some dude with shit trinkets and 10 item levels lower is doing more dps than you because he found Infinite Stars corruption on the playground?

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    And at the end of it, Legion is still viewed rather favorably by players. Still not seeing what the problem is. The prior 2 expansions also had '*forged' gear based on an RNG system, and there wasn't a huge outcry about it.

    Is it that a non raider can effectively become as geared as a raider with the correct focus on the correct content? There's all sorts of player-exclusionary tools out there to ensure that this is a non issue, so I'm not sure why anyone really cares about that.

    Prior to all these expansions, gear was FAR more static, and you were either raiding, or you weren't. And each group of players would very loudly complain that after a certain point in the week, there was "nothing to do"... because there wasn't.

    So which scenario is worse for the player?
    You are missing the point entirely.

    The problem isnt the existance of corrupted gear, nor was the problem the existance of legendarys in legion.

    Its the aquisition of it either that is bullshit. Theres no reliable way to farm for the corrupt you need. Its basicly a slot machine each reset, either your lucky or your fucked and will remain a useless ancor on the raid for another reset, and theres nothing you can do about it.
    Given how powerful these are, it becomes absolutely mandatory to have a good corrupt.

    Funny thing that you brought up mop and wod, because that was a 100% reliable way to farm the legendarys in those Qlines. No player was fucked by rng and ended up being usless in the raid for entire teirs because of bad luck.

    Immagine if wod and mop isntead had a chest with a 1/50 (there are exactly 51 possible corruption outcomes atm) chance of giving you those insanely op legendarys with 1 chance per week. How would that go down do you think? Would you enjoy playing hellfire citade without the ring for an entire year? with other ppl in the raid having it and outpreforming you by miles? It would ahve been an absolutely dogshit system. Just as the current corruption system is.

    It has nothing to do with ahrdcores vs casuals, it has nothing to do with raiders vs non-raiders.
    It has to do with a system based on pure fucking luck and nothing else. No player agency whatsoever. We might aswell be playing yatzy.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  6. #606
    Dreadlord Miseration's Avatar
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    Its pure luck and nothing else. RNG huh.. just like War/titanforged was.
    Stars Wars is lame. Change my mind.

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    So what is the dps difference between you and the top guy

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    Can someone explain to me how having three mechanics that you and your healers have to play around is not related to skill

    And I can guarantee you that sub optimal specs do not wipe raids
    Dps checks are all around. So playing a suboptimal spec can wipe raids. More damage == decreased lenght of fight == less mana strain on healers etc.

    I agree with the fact that ofcourse healing does require skills and healing people with insane amounts of corruption is even more fun. Looking at dps though, 10k+ difference in DPS that comes not from skill but from RNG lotery doesn't. You did what exactly skillwise to get that? Obviously apart from getting the gear itself (which in a way is also luck/rng). That being said; How the hell does it work that gear with 15-20 ilvls higher is not worth it, because of not having the right corruption effect?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    You are missing the point entirely.

    The problem isnt the existance of corrupted gear, nor was the problem the existance of legendarys in legion.

    Its the aquisition of it either that is bullshit. Theres no reliable way to farm for the corrupt you need. Its basicly a slot machine each reset, either your lucky or your fucked and will remain a useless ancor on the raid for another reset, and theres nothing you can do about it.
    Given how powerful these are, it becomes absolutely mandatory to have a good corrupt.

    Funny thing that you brought up mop and wod, because that was a 100% reliable way to farm the legendarys in those Qlines. No player was fucked by rng and ended up being usless in the raid for entire teirs because of bad luck.

    Immagine if wod and mop isntead had a chest with a 1/50 (there are exactly 51 possible corruption outcomes atm) chance of giving you those insanely op legendarys with 1 chance per week. How would that go down do you think? Would you enjoy playing hellfire citade without the ring for an entire year? with other ppl in the raid having it and outpreforming you by miles? It would ahve been an absolutely dogshit system. Just as the current corruption system is.

    It has nothing to do with ahrdcores vs casuals, it has nothing to do with raiders vs non-raiders.
    It has to do with a system based on pure fucking luck and nothing else. No player agency whatsoever. We might aswell be playing yatzy.
    Exactly, because Blizzard does take corruption effects into account when they calculate bosshealth etc. Does it mean that it's unkillable with having ony 20% of the raid geared with the luck RNG pieces in comparison with 70%? No, but makes life a lot easier!

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    You are missing the point entirely.

    The problem isnt the existance of corrupted gear, nor was the problem the existance of legendarys in legion.

    Its the aquisition of it either that is bullshit. Theres no reliable way to farm for the corrupt you need. Its basicly a slot machine each reset, either your lucky or your fucked and will remain a useless ancor on the raid for another reset, and theres nothing you can do about it.
    Given how powerful these are, it becomes absolutely mandatory to have a good corrupt.

    Funny thing that you brought up mop and wod, because that was a 100% reliable way to farm the legendarys in those Qlines. No player was fucked by rng and ended up being usless in the raid for entire teirs because of bad luck.

    Immagine if wod and mop isntead had a chest with a 1/50 (there are exactly 51 possible corruption outcomes atm) chance of giving you those insanely op legendarys with 1 chance per week. How would that go down do you think? Would you enjoy playing hellfire citade without the ring for an entire year? with other ppl in the raid having it and outpreforming you by miles? It would ahve been an absolutely dogshit system. Just as the current corruption system is.

    It has nothing to do with ahrdcores vs casuals, it has nothing to do with raiders vs non-raiders.
    It has to do with a system based on pure fucking luck and nothing else. No player agency whatsoever. We might aswell be playing yatzy.
    Yep. In legion, I dropped the Bis leg for Shaman (the gloves) at the end of Legion while raiding Antorus. Literally the last leg I was missing. Some ppl dropped it for their first leg. So for the whole expansion, I could not use the Bis for my class (that thing was the bis for at least the 2 dps specs of shaman). Since I am a good player, I still did good parse and dps but as soon as I got those, I did legendary parse all day any day. God I hate that kind of rng, and the corruption system is akin to that. Yes, in 2-3-4 months, everyone will have a lot of corrupted gears, but it won't matter because we need it now for progression.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by Curaga View Post
    Dps checks are all around. So playing a suboptimal spec can wipe raids. More damage == decreased lenght of fight == less mana strain on healers etc.

    I agree with the fact that ofcourse healing does require skills and healing people with insane amounts of corruption is even more fun. Looking at dps though, 10k+ difference in DPS that comes not from skill but from RNG lotery doesn't. You did what exactly skillwise to get that? Obviously apart from getting the gear itself (which in a way is also luck/rng). That being said; How the hell does it work that gear with 15-20 ilvls higher is not worth it, because of not having the right corruption effect?

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    Exactly, because Blizzard does take corruption effects into account when they calculate bosshealth etc. Does it mean that it's unkillable with having ony 20% of the raid geared with the luck RNG pieces in comparison with 70%? No, but makes life a lot easier!
    So you are saying that the only reason you get 10 on a boss rank instead of 1 is corruption and luck (because 10k is the average difference on warrior dps rank 1 vs 10)

    I should go and tell my fire mage that he played the wrong spec all past tier

    Heck the demo lock should reroll

    Every spec currently has representation in someway on her Roeck and most on mythic so to say that a sub optimal spec is enough to wipe parade is complete and utter bullshit and it’s only perpetuated by the idiots who decide to look at mythic grade teams and decide they don’t have a certain spec so they will never use that spec and then they go into pugs and they see a player playing that spec that is incorrect and these tell them you should re-roll because it’s a terrible spec but in reality it’s all based on the player just looking at the Sims There isn’t that much of a difference between the top and the bottom it’s fine if you turn someone away from a raid that you are bugging just because they are the wrong spec you’re kind of a dick if you sit someone from a non-mythic rate because they play something like a survival Hunter then you’re kind of a dick

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by Miseration View Post
    Its pure luck and nothing else. RNG huh.. just like War/titanforged was.
    Just like BIS, run this content and pray to RNGsus that the gear your looking for drops.

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    you won't have bis in week 40. That's the issue here. nice try tho
    I didn't have my BiS back at the end of Cataclysm either and I think that was over 38 weeks of doing the last tier at least. This is like that ONE argument people seem to hang onto for dear life: I used to be able to get full BiS but now it's hard so it makes me not want to play anymore. Right. Cause waiting for 27 weeks for that one neck to drop or never seeing that ring for the whole tier was very rewarding. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.
    Btw, my first item is a belt that has echoing void tier 3 on it that I'll probably keep for the rest of the expansion. Can I call it BiS? We're making such a big deal over sockets and tertiary stats as well, as if they haven't been here for quite a few expansions already.

  12. #612
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    I didn't have my BiS back at the end of Cataclysm either and I think that was over 38 weeks of doing the last tier at least. This is like that ONE argument people seem to hang onto for dear life: I used to be able to get full BiS but now it's hard so it makes me not want to play anymore. Right. Cause waiting for 27 weeks for that one neck to drop or never seeing that ring for the whole tier was very rewarding. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.
    Aside from BiS trinkets that could be worth a few percent by themselves, BiS vs similar but not BiS gear had very little in it, as a rule, prior to Legion. Getting your four-piece was more important than having otherwise BiS gear, and it wasn't a super big deal for most specs in most raid tiers. This is different - bad rng of the sort that meant you went an ground out the arena weapon for that tier because your weapon luck sucked meant a few percent DPS loss, maybe a bit more if you had a last-tier weapon. Now it's 20%+ DPS, no matter how good your gear otherwise is. That's a very different matter.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Completely an issue caused by corruption.

    If they would go back to tier gear, a'la WOTLK, this conversation would be nonexistent.
    I would like that - being able to buy tier pieces with currency (Justice, Valor, whatever). Benthic was a step in the right direction. But thats been dropped.

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