[TV] Disney+ Star Wars: Obi-Wan Kenobi

[Ghost of Cow]

There are plenty of other things, little things that make it bad but i think the main one is the lack of jeopardy. I know Vader kills obi wan (spoiler) later on, i know what happens to leia and luke etc. There is no drama or jeopardy in this show because of that.

Indeed, that is a factor sometimes.

Although I think in general we always know the endings of things, it's the quality of the storytelling up to that point that matters.

[Tyris Flare]

Then most people shouldn't watch movies at all. If you can't see your childhood heroes fall or fail, than you haven't grown out of your childhood.

And this is just a very sad view.
.

Then "most people" should never complain about studios delivering trite, recycled garbage ever again.

You are free to think it's a sad view, of course, but this is how genre fiction works in the real world. It's not about being super clever, it is about meeting audience expectations. This is a lesson middle-grade genre writers often have to (painfully) learn (That is, assuming your goal is to be popular and make money.)

There's obviously an audience for the "subverting expectations" crowd. The Expanse are best-selling books, though note that the show was almost cancelled repeatedly for poor viewership despite being excellent.

But some day take a cruise on the top 500 or 1000 books on Amazon, especially independent books. The best advice for authors is not "write the next Dune," it's "know exactly what your readers want in terms of tropes and deliver that"

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ooof this show stinks.

I watched the first 3 episodes and probably will leave it there, can't even hate watch it.

The guy running into the tree branch lmao.
Leia is super janky. I don't know if any of you watched wondershowzen back in the day where they put a kid out on the street with a earpiece and made them say adult stuff in interviews, youtube beat kidz if you want to know what im talking about. It felt like that. Terrible.

There are plenty of other things, little things that make it bad but i think the main one is the lack of jeopardy. I know Vader kills obi wan (spoiler) later on, i know what happens to leia and luke etc. There is no drama or jeopardy in this show because of that.

I feel like this is the show my grandma watches, dribbling and smelling slightly of piss zoned out infront of the TV. Its a safety blanket like old reruns of MASH.

This show feels like the new Star Trek shows, written by a marketing algorithm. Execs are so risk averse that they won't make something that doesn't have a ready made audience. Its not good for the stock price! Its a formula that produces junk. You can fake the online engagement and call the show a success no matter how it does. A show made for the requirements of a machine and not the vision of a mind.

So I think this is also true, which may seem counter to what I said but the difference is in how well you disguise it. For example, Top Gun is raking in the dough and has great reviews despite being a movie that basically takes no chances and is a pure nostalgia injection. Why? It's well made schlock.

Contrast that to poorly-made schlock (Boba, Obi-Wan).

[Darththeo]

You are free to think it's a sad view, of course, but this is how genre fiction works in the real world. It's not about being super clever, it is about meeting audience expectations. This is a lesson middle-grade genre writers often have to (painfully) learn (That is, assuming your goal is to be popular and make money.)

There's obviously an audience for the "subverting expectations" crowd. The Expanse are best-selling books, though note that the show was almost cancelled repeatedly for poor viewership despite being excellent.

But some day take a cruise on the top 500 or 1000 books on Amazon, especially independent books. The best advice for authors is not "write the next Dune," it's "know exactly what your readers want in terms of tropes and deliver that"

This mindset would have not led us to not have to works we do. Star Wars would have been totally different if Lucas shared this view. So it is ironic that people are arguing for a viewpoint that if applied to the origin of the series would have completely altered what we got, and likely killed the series.

While the first movie is very Hero of Many Faces trope, the series goes off the expectations of that trope with ESB where the heroes lose. And even in RotJ, Luke doesn't defeat the Emperor and would have die if not for Vader. Luke only defeats Vader because he gave into aggression when Vader threaten Leia. Neither of these fit the mold people seem to want now of the hero always being the hero.

[Tyris Flare]

This mindset would have not led us to not have to works we do. Star Wars would have been totally different if Lucas shared this view. So it is ironic that people are arguing for a viewpoint that if applied to the origin of the series would have completely altered what we got, and likely killed the series.

While the first movie is very Hero of Many Faces trope, the series goes off the expectations of that trope with ESB where the heroes lose. And even in RotJ, Luke doesn't defeat the Emperor and would have die if not for Vader. Luke only defeats Vader because he gave into aggression when Vader threaten Leia. Neither of these fit the mold people seem to want now of the hero always being the hero.

I know man, but it's not 1977. Not saying audiences shouldn't crave or want this awesome stuff (I mentioned the Expanse, which is great sci-fi), just saying that creators are generally not rewarded when they produce it. There is major survivorship bias. Every nascent sci-fi writer dreams of firing off the next Dune, but it's not what pays the bills.

And a mass market thing like SW is going to always hit landmines when it tries to break the mold. Mass viewers show up to see Luke carve through dudes, not Obi-Wan slouching around being pathetic. You could try to write an incredibly awesome and subversive romance novel where the MCs both die at the end, and guess how well that would do (you wouldn't even get an agent to try and sell it, they'd instantly throw it out)

Basically, we can hate Hollywood for producing this shit all we want, but it's what gets rewarded by audiences.

[Kyphael]

Part III was good. I'm not even going to question or debate the logistics of The Force, and why Vader wouldn't snuff out the flames or simply raise Obi-Wan and toss him over the wall of flames back to his side with it. This is Star Wars, just turn off my brain for 35 minutes and enjoy some space wizard soap opera.

Best part was the tense scene of Obi-Wan sitting with the Storm Troopers. Man they're dumb, I'm shocked he didn't use the Jedi mind trick like in New Hope. Guess he didn't need to. Why The Empire decided to replace clones with storm troopers this dumb is beyond me. Then again, clones weren't exactly the brightest, but at least they were better shooters. Five Storm Troopers armed and ready, and none could hit Obi-Wan, who was just armed with one gun.

[Darththeo]

I know man, but it's not 1977. Not saying audiences shouldn't crave or want this awesome stuff (I mentioned the Expanse, which is great sci-fi), just saying that creators are generally not rewarded when they produce it. There is major survivorship bias. Every nascent sci-fi writer dreams of firing off the next Dune, but it's not what pays the bills.

And a mass market thing like SW is going to always hit landmines when it tries to break the mold. Mass viewers show up to see Luke carve through dudes, not Obi-Wan slouching around being pathetic. You could try to write an incredibly awesome and subversive romance novel where the MCs both die at the end, and guess how well that would do (you wouldn't even get an agent to try and sell it, they'd instantly throw it out)

Basically, we can hate Hollywood for producing this shit all we want, but it's what gets rewarded by audiences.

But, it really isn't breaking the mold of Star Wars. Star Wars has always done stuff like this. What we are seeing in Kenobi is nothing new for the series.

The complaint just rings hollow to me that this somehow isn't Star Wars because what people are asking for to me isn't Star Wars. Luke's entrance at the end of Season 2 of the Mandalorian works because that's all we get. Now imagine a series where EVERY fight Luke does is that, because at that time, there were few if anyone who could match the powers of a Jedi. How is there any interest in seeing a series where the Hero has plot armor so thick that not only know he can't die, but there is nothing that will or could challenge him on any level.

That is a problem with prequels of course, the character will have plot armor to some extent. But, people seem to want a series where we have plot armor that makes other plot armor look like tissue paper.

[formerShandalay]

Part III was good. I'm not even going to question or debate the logistics of The Force, and why Vader wouldn't snuff out the flames or simply raise Obi-Wan and toss him over the wall of flames back to his side with it. This is Star Wars, just turn off my brain for 35 minutes and enjoy some space wizard soap opera.

Best part was the tense scene of Obi-Wan sitting with the Storm Troopers. Man they're dumb, I'm shocked he didn't use the Jedi mind trick like in New Hope. Guess he didn't need to. Why The Empire decided to replace clones with storm troopers this dumb is beyond me. Then again, clones weren't exactly the brightest, but at least they were better shooters. Five Storm Troopers armed and ready, and none could hit Obi-Wan, who was just armed with one gun.

I don't think Obi-Wan is capable of a mind trick at this moment. He can't even see in the dark, which is kind of the first thing younglings learn, he was barely even able to keep Leia from falling to her death and couldn't force jump for shit.
I might give him some form of Jedi reflexes, as those needn't be trained if you just want them to work on mundane tasks or non force-using people (like Stormtroopers), but as soon as he tries actively reaching out to the Force he is lost. I mean... he could probably become a really powerful Dark Side user atm, with all of his emotions interfering in his way of using the Force, but Light Side? Nah. You need inner peace for that and he doesn't have that.

[Kathandira]

This mindset would have not led us to not have to works we do. Star Wars would have been totally different if Lucas shared this view. So it is ironic that people are arguing for a viewpoint that if applied to the origin of the series would have completely altered what we got, and likely killed the series.

While the first movie is very Hero of Many Faces trope, the series goes off the expectations of that trope with ESB where the heroes lose. And even in RotJ, Luke doesn't defeat the Emperor and would have die if not for Vader. Luke only defeats Vader because he gave into aggression when Vader threaten Leia. Neither of these fit the mold people seem to want now of the hero always being the hero.

I think if the Obi Wan saga was a stand alone and in sequential order, it would be seen differently.

The way the star wars story is being told is like being in a rubber room, bouncing off the walls.

Start in the middle, then all the way back to the beginning, then a story between the two, then a later sequel series, then back to between the original and the sequel, then back to between the prequel and the OG, and back and forth over and over. When looking at the order of release vs order of events, it is a disjointed mess. And due to that, keeping track of these characters journeys tends to be more difficult. Especially in a story where there are many "main characters" who all get their own sagas.

[babalou1]

I think if the Obi Wan saga was a stand alone and in sequential order, it would be seen differently.

The way the star wars story is being told is like being in a rubber room, bouncing off the walls.

Start in the middle, then all the way back to the beginning, then a story between the two, then a later sequel series, then back to between the original and the sequel, then back to between the prequel and the OG, and back and forth over and over. When looking at the order of release vs order of events, it is a disjointed mess. And due to that, keeping track of these characters journeys tends to be more difficult. Especially in a story where there are many "main characters" who all get their own sagas.

Its this kind of shit that makes me wonder why they wont touch The Old Republic. Give us shit thousands of years before Movies. As much as I hate to say it because Id love to see a Revan series/trilogy, but they have TONS of material to pull from to make new stories. That dont fuck with the canon of the originals.

Ive enjoyed Mando, Obi Wan, and even Boba Fett. But I dont really care about the inbetween stuff.

[Kathandira]

Its this kind of shit that makes me wonder why they wont touch The Old Republic. Give us shit thousands of years before Movies. As much as I hate to say it because Id love to see a Revan series/trilogy, but they have TONS of material to pull from to make new stories. That dont fuck with the canon of the originals.

Ive enjoyed Mando, Obi Wan, and even Boba Fett. But I dont really care about the inbetween stuff.

I hear ya, and I don't mean for my comment to come off as someone who doesn't like the stories that have been told. But I agree, moving away from the current icons and onto new stories that have not seen a theater release would be refreshing.

I'd be happy with either going back thousands of years, or forward hundreds of years. I love the Star Wars universe and lore, just want to see it expanded in either direction and not stuck in the same 50-100 year time frame.

[Kyphael]

I don't think Obi-Wan is capable of a mind trick at this moment. He can't even see in the dark, which is kind of the first thing younglings learn, he was barely even able to keep Leia from falling to her death and couldn't force jump for shit.
I might give him some form of Jedi reflexes, as those needn't be trained if you just want them to work on mundane tasks or non force-using people (like Stormtroopers), but as soon as he tries actively reaching out to the Force he is lost. I mean... he could probably become a really powerful Dark Side user atm, with all of his emotions interfering in his way of using the Force, but Light Side? Nah. You need inner peace for that and he doesn't have that.

Well he's going to have to find that inner peace in the next three episodes because I'm sure Kathleen wasn't referring to the stomping Vader just dished out on Obi-Wan as the "re-match of the century."

[Syegfryed]

And no Luke wasn't anywhere close to killing his nephew. Luke had an automatic reaction to the darkness he felt then immediately checked him on it. They tell the story twice because you as the fewer is supposed to how Kylo warped the incident in his mind (can't really blame him from his PoV)

Memories are a bit foggy, but automatic reaction was to pull out his lightsaber and make an quick move to kill? then just give up all for this little thing? at least obi-wan did though he actually killed Anakin.

Really all I'm saying is that people are placing Obi on a higher platform than was ever meant to be on. He messed up, bad. The showing us how he dealt existed in that mindset. Most of the Skywalker saga is a bleak experience where many of the good guys fail and die, Obi, Luke, Yoda, are not exceptions to the rules.

And im saying there is some fundamental differences of why obi-wan as a broken hero works and luke dont, and those are the reasons people cab like one and not the other.

[Tyris Flare]

But, it really isn't breaking the mold of Star Wars. Star Wars has always done stuff like this. What we are seeing in Kenobi is nothing new for the series.

The complaint just rings hollow to me that this somehow isn't Star Wars because what people are asking for to me isn't Star Wars. Luke's entrance at the end of Season 2 of the Mandalorian works because that's all we get. Now imagine a series where EVERY fight Luke does is that, because at that time, there were few if anyone who could match the powers of a Jedi. How is there any interest in seeing a series where the Hero has plot armor so thick that not only know he can't die, but there is nothing that will or could challenge him on any level.

That is a problem with prequels of course, the character will have plot armor to some extent. But, people seem to want a series where we have plot armor that makes other plot armor look like tissue paper.

I said a while back that as long as OW kicks ass at the end, it will be fine. So I agree. This storyline could work!

Just saying that he absolutely has to be cool by the end or everyone is going to be sour.

(the other problems of the series aren't as easily resolved)

[Darththeo]

I said a while back that as long as OW kicks ass at the end, it will be fine. So I agree. This storyline could work!

Just saying that he absolutely has to be cool by the end or everyone is going to be sour.

(the other problems of the series aren't as easily resolved)

I like seeing Obi-wan struggle with his past and his various duties he has. I am seeing the character that I first saw when I watched the OT as a kid in the 80s and 90s on VHS. I don't need to see him kick ass, I just need to see him overcome his own doubts. As I said a few times, this Obi-wan adds so much to Obi-wan's line in Rebels about what he has risen above.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Memories are a bit foggy, but automatic reaction was to pull out his lightsaber and make an quick move to kill? then just give up all for this little thing? at least obi-wan did though he actually killed Anakin.

Luke never made any move to kill he just had his saber out and turned it on and then Kylo woke up and swung at luke which he blocked.

[jonnysensible]

So I think this is also true, which may seem counter to what I said but the difference is in how well you disguise it. For example, Top Gun is raking in the dough and has great reviews despite being a movie that basically takes no chances and is a pure nostalgia injection. Why? It's well made schlock.

Contrast that to poorly-made schlock (Boba, Obi-Wan).

This is a fair observation. I'll watch Top Gun and think about it.

[everydaygamer]

Memories are a bit foggy, but automatic reaction was to pull out his lightsaber and make an quick move to kill? then just give up all for this little thing? at least obi-wan did though he actually killed Anakin.

No Luke sensed the darkness in Kylo and was overcome with so much fear that in a brief moment of weakness he pulled out his Lightsaber and considered killing him. He immediately came to his senses but Kylo saw what he was about to do and that sent him down his dark path.

Overcome with guilt over what his weakness caused Luke went into exile.

[DingDongKing]

Be careful how far out on the horseshoe you go..... you sound just like them

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The question comes down to, did they want him because he was black, or did they want him because he is Samuel L-ucking Jackson? There is a VAST difference between "I want this black man to play this role because he is an amazing actor that I want in my movie" and "I want this black man to play this role because he is a black man and I really want that in my movie".


One is fine, the other is.....

I’m okay, thanks.

[Syegfryed]

Luke never made any move to kill he just had his saber out and turned it on and then Kylo woke up and swung at luke which he blocked.

"he turned on" you said...

No Luke sensed the darkness in Kylo and was overcome with so much fear that in a brief moment of weakness he pulled out his Lightsaber and considered killing him..

Yeah, that is something that people didn't like, totally understandable.

Especially when we know how Luke, unlike other jedi, didn't gave up, don't think is comparable to Obi-wan, especially that even broken he went to save leia...

[baskev]

The bolded is Dutiful spelt wrong.

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Additionally to this point. His emotional instability likely has a role in his lack of connection to the light side of the force.

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That was very evident when justs a few moments before, we watched Vader snap someone's neck with the force. Obi-Wan was struggling to fight back against Vader, and his connection to the force is quite weak. If Vader wanted to end the fight, he could have done so with the twist of the wrist. But he didn't. He wanted to watch him suffer.

yup. My points excatly. Thats what i dislike about all the hate. its easy to see what is happening.