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  1. #1301
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    Anyway, it's possible it could lead into a good redemption story.
    It's not possible. Well in good writing that is.

    You can't go from cutting innocent people hands off for no reason to "my Force, what have I done" in a week.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  2. #1302
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Guys, come on.

    Even I can come up with a reasonable plausible explanation of why Reva survived that even I can agree with

    The problem is - I don't see it in the show.
    And no one of you have come up with it.

    She might be a cyborg. After that first stab at the temple. They found her alive fueld by rage, fixed her with cybernetics and a bacta tank - and bam - Vader stabbed her into cybernetics and she is still kicking because well, it's all cyber there.

    Same for GI, as I mentioned much much earlier he did say in Rebels right before finally dying - "there's worse fate than death" (c) paraphrasing.

    But we don't see that in the show. If GI was just picked up by a trauma team off screen and fixed up. Reva is shown as WOUNDED. So no cybernetics in her chest.
    We saw cybernetics in Fennec resurrection, Cobb resurrection, even Cad Bane is probably cybernetically alive still.

    So this is a thing now. But not for Reva.

    That's just lazy sensational strong woman of color writing.
    One, cybernetics in Star Wars can feel pain. So the fact she is wounded would not mean she does not have cybernetics there. Luke's hand was shot in RotJ and he reacted to that shot with pain. Now you could argue that it was the fake flesh over the injury that felt pain, but then I could easily say, maybe Reva has fake flesh over her cybernetics.

    Two, we know already she is near a bacta tank currently. While it was last shown empty, I don't think they would have taken the time to load major medical equipment onto the shuttle and therefore bacta may be nearby available to her.

    Three, the reason we don't have enough to show she will survive or how is that is literally the end of the current episode. Do you expect them to take time to spell it out on how she will survive for you while they are setting up the threat to Luke?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    This isn't Reva's story either though! It's Obi-Wan

    Anyway, it's possible it could lead into a good redemption story. But that's betting on a future we don't know about. Personally to me, at this moment, I think showing the stakes of the universe with Vader just killing her outright after humiliating her would make this whole "Jedi Purge" era much darker and scarier and real. It would also help paper over some of the cartoonish stuff and aid future shows by demonstrating there are actual stakes in this universe, not just literal beskar plot armor and the like!

    Edit: oh also, build up Luke since he is the Chosen One and the whole point in this arc! Helps make it clear that nobody else can defeat Vader, certainly not random youngling upstarts. They all try and fail and die.
    Could it? Maybe, but they have done at lot of odd story choices and we kind of already seen a better version of Reva's story with Trilla in Fallen Order.

    Also, Luke is not the Chosen One. Anakin is. Luke is just the only person we know of that could redeem Anakin. We can assume Padme or Leia could as well.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  3. #1303
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    This isn't Reva's story either though! It's Obi-Wan
    I'm pretty sure the big finale is Kenobi's conversion of Reva. We'll find out on Wednesday.

    Edit: oh also, build up Luke since he is the Chosen One and the whole point in this arc! Helps make it clear that nobody else can defeat Vader, certainly not random youngling upstarts. They all try and fail and die.
    Vader's the Chosen One. Luke in the OT is essentially an ambulatory Maguffin who exists to trigger his dad's parental emotions. This is literally the point of the finale of RotJ and what made that finale such an interesting take. That Luke could only beat Vader if he tapped into the Dark Side, losing himself to the Emperor in the process. Luke could not win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Two, we know already she is near a bacta tank currently. While it was last shown empty, I don't think they would have taken the time to load major medical equipment onto the shuttle and therefore bacta may be nearby available to her.
    They also included a line about leaving everything you didn't need and getting on the ships.

    I'm sure that's gonna apply to the Bacta tank. I also think it's gonna turn out to have applied to that case of lightsabers that Kenobi briefly noticed and got melancholy over. Especially that, because it's a weird thing to throw into Ep 5 if it's not clear foreshadowing/planting a Chekov's Gun in the scene.

    Things I assume happen in Ep 6 (all speculation, obviously, so not bothering with spoiler tags);
    1> Reva grabs a saber, fires it up, lighting her face in blue, foreshadowing a future turn to the Light Side.
    2> Reva hunts Obi-Wan down on Tattooine, tracking down Luke knowing she can use him as she used Leia.
    3> Reva and Obi-Wan fight. She's definitely trying to kill him. Obi-Wan is trying to talk. This plays out as a reflection of the Vader/Reva fight which was a reflection of the Obi/Anakin sparring flashback; Obi won't even use his saber for much of the fight, and it PROBABLY ends with him disarming her rather than harming her.

    None of that's particularly odd; it's genre trope stuff combined with fairly obvious (to me at least) foreshadowing. That's not where they'll end it, but I'm not speculating about how they wrap it up, just some scene elements I fully expect to see come up because they seem so obvious to me.
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-06-19 at 03:27 PM.


  4. #1304
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    What makes no sense is she got stabbed twice, youngling n last episode, n it's not deadly?
    Lightsabre doesn't slice neatly through, it makes, whst? A 2 inch circulsr hole through your body evaporating everything in its path, prob cooks your intestines!
    Was there a bacta tank right next to her in the jedi temple or what?

    N why did no other younglings n jedi (hundreds? thousands?) survive stabbings? Even once?


    Maul died. They brought him back to serve as villain for a cartoon that few have watched.
    Did lucas intend for maul to survive?

    Again. Why didn't all those jedi from ord.66 not survive lesser..'wounds' ?
    This is basically my problem with it. Storm Trooper can be shot literally anywhere in the armor, like even near the shoulder and they die. But other folks are impaled and non-the-worse-for-wear. While 3 Jedi Masters are hit in the guts and immediately die. There's no consistency, and they rely too heavily on the "you just thought they died", trope.

    That said, I'm better with how they handled it with Reva, since they showed she wasn't dead, and was moving around and what not, but like how they did the GI was dumb. Being shot or stabbed in the gut doesn't "knock you out". So if they fall and are unresponsive, that informs us they are dead. So that brings me to Annie Wilkes complaint in Misery. You can't show us something in one episode to inform us something happens, then in the next episode be all like, "ha we tricked you, the thing didn't actually happen".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I'm pretty sure the big finale is Kenobi's conversion of Reva. We'll find out on Wednesday.
    That basically agrees with the statement that the show is Reva's story, since we are watching her journey. Were you intending to agree with the person you quoted, or were you saying Obi-Wan converting her makes it back to OW's story?

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  5. #1305
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    That basically agrees with the statement that the show is Reva's story, since we are watching her journey. Were you intending to agree with the person you quoted, or were you saying Obi-Wan converting her makes it back to OW's story?
    It's the end of Obi-Wan's story, and the beginning of Reva's. That conversion has as much to do with Obi-Wan coming back to being a teacher and leading people to the Light as it as to do with Reva, and Reva's story isn't going to get tied off here, whereas Obi-Wan's will.

    She's still a part of this story, and it's part of her story, but she's not the protagonist, she's the important secondary character that's gonna get spun off into her own story.


  6. #1306
    The dialogue in the show is so bad that when paired with the acting is a tough watch.

    "I need you to do this thing."
    "I'm sorry. I can't do that thing or the Empire will come after me".
    "Please, I need your help."
    "Okay, you got my help."

    Ugh. It's like written by 7 year olds.

  7. #1307
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Again; genre conventions.

    Stories are not reality. Dialogue isn't written or presented naturally in most cases (it can be, but it stands out when it's done, and usually is only done so intentionally). People position themselves in certain ways so the camera can get them both in the shot. Whether it's movies or TV, the visual medium is used to tell a story, it isn't meant to be live footage of real events, particularly as live footage of real events is often confusing or unclear, and that's a cinematographic failure unless that confusion is the intent.

    Complaining about genre conventions doesn't make you a better audience member. It's ignoring the basic premise that you're experiencing a story. It's the equivalent of complaining that your parent pauses every time they have to flip a page while reading you your bedtime story. Or why all the voices sound the same because it's only your parent doing them.
    Ok, but the important question is...do you like Jar Jar?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    The dialogue in the show is so bad that when paired with the acting is a tough watch.

    "I need you to do this thing."
    "I'm sorry. I can't do that thing or the Empire will come after me".
    "Please, I need your help."
    "Okay, you got my help."

    Ugh. It's like written by 7 year olds.
    How dare you. Bad dialog is a Star Wars trope.

    I don't know why you hate Star Wars so much.

  8. #1308
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I'm pretty sure the big finale is Kenobi's conversion of Reva. We'll find out on Wednesday.


    Vader's the Chosen One. Luke in the OT is essentially an ambulatory Maguffin who exists to trigger his dad's parental emotions. This is literally the point of the finale of RotJ and what made that finale such an interesting take. That Luke could only beat Vader if he tapped into the Dark Side, losing himself to the Emperor in the process. Luke could not win.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What I mean is that the entire premise is that Kenobi is protecting Luke because he is the only one who can destroy the Empire (thinking of the Obi vs Maul fight in Rebels, which was great). Making Vader more of a badass makes Luke and the Rebellion and the original chars more awesome too! He ruthlessly trashed everyone for 20 some years. Awesome!

    Gotta sell that, not have a jillion random survivors here and there or its less meaningful imo.

  9. #1309
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    I kinda prefer they keep creating new music. Especially when it’s with different composers. So long as it fits the style of Star Wars I’m always excited for people to get a chance to make their mark on the franchise. If we kept everything restricted to people who did the work on the first film the shit would die quickly. And I enjoy stuff that’s both canon and legends, so keep it all coming. Some will not be for me(there’s a lot I haven’t enjoyed), but I just want more stories being told so that the ones I do enjoy keep coming along.
    New music is nice but you gotta use the classic stuff in certain scenes imo.
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  10. #1310
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It's the end of Obi-Wan's story, and the beginning of Reva's. That conversion has as much to do with Obi-Wan coming back to being a teacher and leading people to the Light as it as to do with Reva, and Reva's story isn't going to get tied off here, whereas Obi-Wan's will.

    She's still a part of this story, and it's part of her story, but she's not the protagonist, she's the important secondary character that's gonna get spun off into her own story.
    Feels to me that Obi-Wan has a small part to play in this show called, "Obi-Wan Kenobi," that delivers Reva's story. Kinda like how "The Three Musketeers" is really about the forth Musketeer.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  11. #1311
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashana Darkmoon View Post
    What I mean is that the entire premise is that Kenobi is protecting Luke because he is the only one who can destroy the Empire (thinking of the Obi vs Maul fight in Rebels, which was great). Making Vader more of a badass makes Luke and the Rebellion and the original chars more awesome too! He ruthlessly trashed everyone for 20 some years. Awesome!

    Gotta sell that, not have a jillion random survivors here and there or its less meaningful imo.
    That's what I've said about Vader in the past - actually in this thread too, I think. He gets hit with the Worf Effect a lot. To the point where he stops feeling like this terrifying force of evil and more like just another Stormtrooper in black who can do neat magic tricks.

    I guess part of it is just the constant need to expand the SW universe, to add more characters and more stories, and in doing so always have the scrappy protagonists succeed in the end. So he just has to constantly keep losing, keep getting clowned on, even when he's throwing his power around he's still just endlessly outmaneuvered, outwitted, or just plain out-lucked.

    It makes the whole original story with Luke and the gang less meaningful, and makes Vader less of an imposing character in the end.

  12. #1312
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    The dialogue in the show is so bad that when paired with the acting is a tough watch.

    "I need you to do this thing."
    "I'm sorry. I can't do that thing or the Empire will come after me".
    "Please, I need your help."
    "Okay, you got my help."

    Ugh. It's like written by 7 year olds.
    Controversial take here, but I think a lot of this in some modern television (like a lot in the rest of our society) is that writer's rooms are often staffed by people from elite schools and/or nepotists who never had to go through a crucible of actually appealing to a real audience. Meaning that they've studied writing theoretically and their dad knew someone at the studio so they got the gig. This is basically elite rot at every level in society and culture is no different.

    The best thing that could probably happen to this stuff is putting writers through the crucible of needing to actually sell books by themselves on Amazon for a year or two. Compete in the real market and see if they could make a living as a middle grade writer with a Patreon (most of them could not, I suspect).

    Just saying this as a bit of personal experience as someone who went through this to a degree, you will learn so much more about how to please an audience by getting your ass kicked on Kindle Unlimited than jumping through elite hoops. You will have to unlearn what you have learned about trying to be clever and subversive and instead focusing on hitting correct story beats and tropes.

    And fundamentally, writing genre shows is about pleasing your audience, whether Disney or whoever likes that or not. Even if that upsets whatever sensibilities you are trying to project to the world.

    Mandalorian did this pretty well. Boba Fett did not. This seems to be somewhere in the middle at best.
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  13. #1313
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    Feels to me that Obi-Wan has a small part to play in this show called, "Obi-Wan Kenobi," that delivers Reva's story. Kinda like how "The Three Musketeers" is really about the forth Musketeer.
    If it was called "D'Artagnan" and followed the story of Jussac - you'd have a point.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  14. #1314
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    That's what I've said about Vader in the past - actually in this thread too, I think. He gets hit with the Worf Effect a lot. To the point where he stops feeling like this terrifying force of evil and more like just another Stormtrooper in black who can do neat magic tricks.

    I guess part of it is just the constant need to expand the SW universe, to add more characters and more stories, and in doing so always have the scrappy protagonists succeed in the end. So he just has to constantly keep losing, keep getting clowned on, even when he's throwing his power around he's still just endlessly outmaneuvered, outwitted, or just plain out-lucked.

    It makes the whole original story with Luke and the gang less meaningful, and makes Vader less of an imposing character in the end.
    Absolutely!

    This was (I guess, is?) a great opportunity to remind us why he's the most feared villain of all time. He sees through Reva's plan and kills her right there after completely humiliating her. Awesome! He's scary again, like when he showed up in Ep 4 and just choked the shit out of that dude!

    That is the Vader fans want to see, imo!

    It's just hard not to be cynical and see other motives besides building the narrative! They probably want to create a character for another show more than cement the legacy of an old character.

    This is why I prefer new shows with totally new characters, given the choice. All this rehashing is tired, especially if you're just using it to springboard other stuff.

  15. #1315
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    How dare you. Bad dialog is a Star Wars trope.

    I don't know why you hate Star Wars so much.
    Not really the same thing as the other complaint. You are getting worse at this mockery. You should have quit while you were ahead.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  16. #1316
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    If it was called "D'Artagnan" and followed the story of Jussac - you'd have a point.
    I mean, feels like I still have a point, even if your point is better. /shrug

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  17. #1317
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    I mean, feels like I still have a point, even if your point is better. /shrug
    You really don't since the story of Three Musketeers is a story of Three musketeers as they meet D'Artagnan who is not a musketeer but wants to be one.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  18. #1318
    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Pretty uncommon that one dies and the other is completely fine days later. You can be cool with it, doesn't mean I have to be.
    No, it actually isn't. It's called advancements in medical science. Or magical miracle cure fluid. It's called a Bacta Tank. Look it up. You don't have to be ok with that, but that's 1005 a 'you' issue. It says nothing about the quality of the show, only about the quality of your imagination.

  19. #1319
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    No, it actually isn't. It's called advancements in medical science. Or magical miracle cure fluid. It's called a Bacta Tank. Look it up. You don't have to be ok with that, but that's 1005 a 'you' issue. It says nothing about the quality of the show, only about the quality of your imagination.
    Everyone keeps bringing up bacta but she's lying there on the floor of a dusty landing pad with no one around and no sign of any medical attention.

    I suppose Vader could have left her ship there, and I suppose there could be some bacta there. That's left to our imagination though, which is fine.

  20. #1320
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    Everyone keeps bringing up bacta but she's lying there on the floor of a dusty landing pad with no one around and no sign of any medical attention.

    I suppose Vader could have left her ship there, and I suppose there could be some bacta there. That's left to our imagination though, which is fine.
    There's bacta delivery number in that holotransmitter. Domino's Bacta. 30 minutes delivery or it's free.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

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