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  1. #1601
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Splitting hairs is getting boring. You know what I meant. I know what I meant, everyone knows what I meant. And yet you cannot be wrong.
    Actually I think you're just a misogynist who just wants to blame the woman for anything you deem a failure in modern Star Wars. F&F do a good job? The woman had nothing to do with it. JJ Abrams does a bad job? The woman had everything to do with it. That's what I think you meant.

    The reality is she's a done a good job of making money. She did a good job demanding re-shoots for Rogue One. She did a bad job demanding re-shoots for Solo (or more precisely letting L&M get 3/4 of the way done before realizing they were doing the wrong thing). Etcetcetc.

    PS Kenobi is pretty good. Its got its flaws but quite frankly I'm almost shocked when anything is good. Thanks KK for giving us Kenobi.

  2. #1602
    Over 9000! Kathranis's Avatar
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    Show overall was pretty solid. Obi-Wan and Vader were great, props to Ewan and Hayden. The Inquisitors were a bit weak but I'd chalk that up to the material they were given, which was pretty cartoony. Leia was cute and pretty solid as far as child actors go.

    Some of the action was a bit silly (the Leia chase scene in the first episode for example), but not more than anything we've seen in other Star Wars stuff. The lightsaber duels were decent, solid enough choreography, but I wasn't a big fan of the handheld camera which felt a bit too shaky.

    The Inquisitor subplot felt a bit half-baked in its execution and makes me wonder if it was added to pad out the runtime a bit, given that this Kenobi project started out as a film. But it had an arc that went full circle, and had an enjoyable if somewhat predictable twist with Reva getting washed by Vader.

    That said, I feel like putting Reva's cards on the table a bit earlier to give her something more weighty to chew on might have worked better. When a character's motivations are left ambiguous it can be hard to for them to connect to the audience.

    Obi-Wan's arc was pretty well executed. This was arguably a story that didn't need to be told, but it did a great job of bridging his appearances in Episodes III and IV, and in retrospect it dealt with some things that were very much left unresolved at the end of RotS. That last exchange between "Ben" and "Darth" feels like something we should have seen in the prequel trilogy itself. The broken mask was something that obviously needed to happen after they announced Hayden's return, even if Rebels did it first.

    Anyway, pretty good. I'd probably rather rewatch this than Attack of the Clones or The Rise of Skywalker. Blows Book of Boba out of the water, not that that's a high bar. Better than most animated series episodes, maybe not as good as the best of them. Doesn't really approach the level of The Mandalorian, which I still consider to be the best Star Wars has been since maybe Empire.


    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    But she can take no credit for Mando's success in reality.
    If it had failed, would she be taking the blame for its failure?

    Because it feels to me like you're trying to have it both ways. If she doesn't get credit for greenlighting and putting the right people on The Mandalorian, why does she take the blame for putting the wrong people on the sequel trilogies?

    Whose to blame for Book-o-Boba, which was a dumpster fire? Five executives on that show, Kennedy was only one of them and I can't even find anything explaining her involvement. Seems like that was Favreau's deal, and he wrote the entire thing, with Filoni helping on one episode.

    Kenobi wasn't perfect, but I'd still at least put it in the top half of Star Wars shows and movies.
    Last edited by Kathranis; 2022-06-24 at 01:58 PM.

  3. #1603
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    If it had failed would she be taking the blame for its failure?
    Come now. Do you even need to ask?

  4. #1604
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Actually I think you're just a misogynist who just wants to blame the woman for anything you deem a failure in modern Star Wars.
    Ah, that kind of card. Well if that narrative helps you feel right, then by all means. You can also call me sexist because women are perfect beings of light.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    If it had failed, would she be taking the blame for its failure?
    Not from me, since I know she had nothing to do with it.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  5. #1605
    I am shocked the editing was not given another pass on this show. Horrible.

    Bet this is because of all the delays among VFX houses nowadays.

    But some of these errors are just basic establishing cuts and two-shots. Shocking really.

  6. #1606
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Splitting hairs is getting boring. You know what I meant. I know what I meant, everyone knows what I meant. And yet you cannot be wrong.
    Proven by ridiculous statement that since she's the boss she gets the credit for everything done under her.
    While it should be obvious she can only take credit for something she was involved with directly. Just like the Disney shareholders can't take credit for everything Disney does.
    The deal with Mando (the pilot live action series for Disney SW) was carte blanche to do what they wanted within the budget and canon. If it succeeds - they make more live action shows and KK takes credit for being so foreseeing. If it doesn't - Filoni/Favro fault.
    It's business.
    But she can take no credit for Mando's success in reality.
    They didn't have a full carte blanche. They were restricted to the current canon. They were allowed a wide freedom as was JJ and Rian were with the ST.

    If you applied YOUR logic consistently, KK would not to be blamed for the sequels.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  7. #1607
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Ah, that kind of card. Well if that narrative helps you feel right, then by all means. You can also call me sexist because women are perfect beings of light.


    Not from me, since I know she had nothing to do with it.
    See this is the kind of hyperbolic bullshit I'm talking about. I do not think women are perfect beings of light. I've provided numerous examples of were I think she's fucking up. Unlike you, I'm not trying to have it both ways.

    How convenient that you weren't tested on this. If F&F drop a turd with season 3, many of us will likely remember this little quote.

  8. #1608
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    How convenient that you weren't tested on this. If F&F drop a turd with season 3, many of us will likely remember this little quote.
    If F&F fuck up season 3 I would be the first throwing shit at them. But you can test your memory if you wish.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  9. #1609
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    I don't think Kathleen Kennedy is writing jack shit. She's an executive. She's been producing blockbuster movies for 40 years. She just wants to sell the product to as many people as possible.
    She determines what directions the writers write.. she doesn't need to physically write the show or a single episode. NEver sat in meetings on creative direction or job interviews as a wirter when the employer tells you what sort of story they want you to write?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ihavewaffles View Post
    Haven't watched ur vid yet, but what bothers me is that disney felt they had to hire a freaking youtuber after Mandalorian s01 for him improving luke skywalker's face.

    Now...with anakin in the kenobi show, u had another youtuber showing how to de-age anakin...

    Lucasfilm used to have the best current cgi n stuff, now they keep getting schooled by some fucking youtubers tweaking in their basements...how low the mighty have fallen.....
    I know right.. the dropping standards is another thing that has left me... actually sad to see. .. they use to be the industry leaders... oh how they've fallen.

    It's like they don't care about cutting edge tech ,f ilm or stories, just cutting edge social poitcs and ideology - and bad ones.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    She writes the checks though. She can say "More of that, less of that" (we don't know what she's basing her decisions on) and monkeys are back behind the typewriter to please the money queen.
    .
    Indeed, do what Kathleen wants (or even hints) you have a job and a future.. defy - and well, not even Gina Corano could hold on to her job there.

    Ofc writers are writing her visioin, adn it's not like she's made it a secret either

  10. #1610
    Herald of the Titans Hansworst's Avatar
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    The bigots/mysonigists really showing their faces today, aren't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  11. #1611
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    I wonder if Kathleen was a dude named Brian would I like Kenobi more...? Or is it only the bigots who bring sex into equation...? Maybe I don't like her name...? Though I'm not fond of Brian either... Hmm...

    Although...

    If Kathleen was actually Brian
    Then do the Last Jedi he might
    Without any guy named Ryan
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  12. #1612
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I wonder if Kathleen was a dude named Brian would I like Kenobi more...? Or is it only the bigots who bring sex into equation...? Maybe I don't like her name...? Though I'm not fond of Brian either... Hmm...

    Although...

    If Kathleen was actually Brian
    Then do the Last Jedi he might
    Without any guy named Ryan
    If she was a dude you likely wouldn’t even know her name just like people didn’t know she was working with Lucus and other great movie makers for years before Disney, you’d just latch onto second “wokest” person YouTubers could push for being the source of all your problems.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  13. #1613
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post

    But she can take no credit for Mando's success in reality.
    Says who? She was executive Producer for that one just as she was for all the other shows and movies. If you blame her for your percieved failure of Kenobi (which is, btw, 100% a 'you' issue), then she also gets the credit for Mandalorians' success.

  14. #1614
    Over 9000! Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I wonder if Kathleen was a dude named Brian would I like Kenobi more...?
    I'm guessing you wouldn't even know who this "Brian" was. Kenobi was produced by Deborah Chow, Ewan McGregor, Kathleen Kennedy, Michelle Rejwan, Joby Harold, Thomas Hayslip, and Katterli Frauenfelder. And yet the only producer I see getting singled out is Kathleen Kennedy.

    Joby Harold was the writer and showrunner and yet I haven't seen the name pop up once in this conversation.

    But I guess if you think Joby did a bad job, it's Kennedy's fault for hiring him, while if he had done a good job, she wouldn't deserve any credit.
    Last edited by Kathranis; 2022-06-24 at 04:53 PM.

  15. #1615
    I am Murloc! Darththeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Says who? She was executive Producer for that one just as she was for all the other shows and movies. If you blame her for your percieved failure of Kenobi (which is, btw, 100% a 'you' issue), then she also gets the credit for Mandalorians' success.
    He thinks Filoni and Favreau were given cart blanche, while JJ and Rian who had the same conditions placed on them is all her fault.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  16. #1616
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    I'm guessing you wouldn't even know who this "Brian" was.
    Seriously? I wouldn't know who heads Lucasfilm with Lucas' blessing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathranis View Post
    Kenobi was produced by Deborah Chow, Ewan McGregor, Kathleen Kennedy, Michelle Rejwan, Joby Harold, Thomas Hayslip, and Katterli Frauenfelder. And yet the only producer I see getting singled out is Kathleen Kennedy.
    Do you honestly think it's because she's a woman?

    P.S.

    Filoni and Favro created Mando show concept and sold it to KK under a condition of free reign.
    Based on their success with the cartoons (especially Filoni) she had to agree.

    JJ and RJ were HIRED by her to do a Sequel TRILOGY. She gave them creative freedom and it was a mistake since they had creative differences of opinion, it was a mistake to even hire more than one if you know you are doing all three, and it was a mistake to shuffle them.

    And we got great Force Awakens,
    then WTF Last Jedi
    and then Rise of the Skywalker that could've been great but it had to deal with the Last Jedi.
    Last edited by Elim Garak; 2022-06-24 at 05:06 PM.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  17. #1617
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    I wonder if Kathleen was a dude named Brian would I like Kenobi more...? Or is it only the bigots who bring sex into equation...? Maybe I don't like her name...? Though I'm not fond of Brian either... Hmm... Brian
    You would be giving Brian credit for Rogue One, Rebels and Mando and giving him criticism for Ep7/9, Solo, Kenobi and Boba. Whilst acknowledging he did his job as a businessperson for making money.

  18. #1618
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    You would be giving Brian credit for Rogue One, Rebels and Mando and giving him criticism for Ep7/9, Solo, Kenobi and Boba. Whilst acknowledging he did his job as a businessperson for making money.
    We already established that's your last ditch attempt to stay right. No need to reiterate.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  19. #1619
    As a very casual Star Wars fan, I started with The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett. I just recently started watching everything else when it was added to Disney + in order.

    I really enjoyed this show, I don't know if it's because watching Star Wars: Episode 1-3 was my first introduction to Starwars as a kid, and I just recently watched the ones made in the 80s. But for me.. Seeing Darth and Obi-Wan in Episode 4 was a super big letdown when you watch it in the proper order and obviously 45 years later. It bothered me how much emotion Anakin and Obi-Wan had in episodes 1-3 and then you watch New hope and clearly the bodybuilder Darth Vader and the 60-year-old Alec Guinness didn't know the deep connection they were supposed to have. But even on top of that, the fight scene was insanely clunky and boring. Now I don't hold that to them... but I do enjoy seeing an epic fight between Darth and Obi-Wan knowing the history they have together in Episodes 1-3.

    I know a lot of people talk about plot holes, and other stuff I really cant be asked to dive deep into. But someone who just enjoys Starwars casually, I really loved this show, it was freaking epic.

  20. #1620
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Filoni and Favro created Mando show concept and sold it to KK under a condition of free reign.
    Based on their success with the cartoons (especially Filoni) she had to agree.

    JJ and RJ were HIRED by her to do a Sequel TRILOGY. She gave them creative freedom and it was a mistake since they had creative differences of opinion, it was a mistake to even hire more than one if you know you are doing all three, and it was a mistake to shuffle them.

    And we got great Force Awakens,
    then WTF Last Jedi
    and then Rise of the Skywalker that could've been great but it had to deal with the Last Jedi.
    She didn’t have to do anything. She’s the boss.

    JJ was hired to do a sequel trilogy. He immediately alienated the first script writer and proceeded to crib many parts of Ep7 from Ep4. Someone should’ve sat KK down and showed her Star Trek Into Darkness. That’s what JJ is going to do to Star Wars. And he did!

    RJ was hired much later when it became apparent the JJ wasn’t going to be around for the long haul. Because he’s a fucking hack. Again KK should’ve picked someone better. RJ correctly assessed the Kylo Ren story. Some of his other ideas were less good.

    JJ is coaxed back and then gets to display his lack of talent. A better director would’ve still managed to make a good movie. I guess years of using daddy’s connections for work finally caught up to him.

    I find it bizarre that you think Ep7 is great but are entirely unwilling to give KK any credit for it.

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