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  1. #1661
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    Thing is, Disney has to move things from tropes and low IQ stories to better narratives inside the SW universe.
    They started to do that with TLJ. Instead of the main character being an orphan from a desert planet who happened to be the son of The Chosen One™, she could have been an orphan from a desert planet who happened to be the daughter of nobody special. Fans lost their collective shit over it...and we got Rise of Skywalker instead... And now the franchise is just going to get milked for as much nostalgia bait as they can because the studio learned that fans don't want anything even slightly different from what they expect. Good job! Gold star!

  2. #1662
    Quote Originally Posted by Relikk View Post
    This doesn't add up.
    It adds up perfectly, actually. "Fine" is a middling score. Round about what Obi-Wan deserves. A lot of people in this thread simply just don't know what "good" writing is, they blatantly miss nuance and somehow can't even fathom basic motivations for characters. You'll notice that a lot of complaints disappear from episode to episode because those complaints are literally addressed an episode later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gumble View Post
    It rarely does with people like him.
    And what is "people like him" in this instance?

    Though the irony that his posts indicates he is not American, yet thinks that Americans actually like the crap Disney Star Wars puts out any more than anywhere else.
    You'll have to point out where I said I think Americans like whatever Disney are putting out. Though I will agree that some clearly do lol Unless you want to argue there is not a single person in America that likes anything Disney have put out relating to Star Wars since 2012. It is quite the number of releases.

    Disney hasn't put out a good Star Wars product. The prequels were the last decent products for Star Wars and those are stretching the term "decent".
    Subjective opinion is subjective /shrug

    Everything since Disney has taken over has been utter crap.
    Subjective opinion is subjective /shrug

    I grumble alot because people keep producing crap and showing it off like its impressive.
    In which case I resort to a comment I find myself making far too often in this sub-forum; don't bloody watch them then. Hate-watching is clearly an issue with this part of the forum, people just love to be miserable. And boy do they love to show off how miserable they are.

  3. #1663
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    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    They started to do that with TLJ. Instead of the main character being an orphan from a desert planet who happened to be the son of The Chosen One™, she could have been an orphan from a desert planet who happened to be the daughter of nobody special. Fans lost their collective shit over it...and we got Rise of Skywalker instead... And now the franchise is just going to get milked for as much nostalgia bait as they can because the studio learned that fans don't want anything even slightly different from what they expect. Good job! Gold star!
    That's the shit that happens when you trust JJ Hackbrams to kick start the sequel trilogy, then you pass a rehashed pile of shit to Ryan Johnson, only to return back to the root of evil.

    TLJ had a lot of nonsense, but Luke's story (along with Rey's parentage) wasn't one of those. Well, apart from the fact why he got estranged with Ben-Kylo. The casino, the chase and Leia's Poppinshenanigans sucked balls tho. Ryan Johnson could and should have done better with that script. If he had anything to do with it at least...
    /spit@Blizzard

  4. #1664
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyah View Post
    Show was ok but it was way too restricted by the lore of what is to come.

    Last episode was suppose to be an epic fight but i already knew neither would die and Obi-Wan leaving Vador alive AGAIN made no sense.

    This is also the problem of a lot of star wars material. They need to create fresh and new lore ...

    The force, The jedis, that's awesome, please use it somewhere else in the galaxy, at a different period ...
    Agree with this.

    But you misunderstand the actual purpose of the last episode fight scene:

    1. Ooh, look, lightsabers look cooler now!
    2. Haha, Vader threw ObiWan in a hole. Who has the high ground now?!?! LOL!
    3. See, Vader did "kill Luke's father" that's why ObiWan said that! He wasn't lying!



    I happen to be watching the Clone Wars cartoon series for the first time while this is going on, I'm only near the end of S2, but there is definitely a lot of "do the Jedi use violence too much to be peacekeepers" stuff in there. I agree that leaving Vader alive is dumb, but I can also see how it might be in character for ObiWan to do so.

    There is a lot of "just kill him and end this" type scenes in most Star Wars content where the Jedi don't kill because it would be eeeeeevil to kill. Even if you're killing a killer. Which like I said doesn't make a lot of sense but it's consistent at least.

    Like today I was thinking if Jedi can throw these big rocks around with the force, why can't they force-choke a guy like Vader does? I think the answer is that they easily can, but don't do so, for whatever reason. Sometimes really stupidly? Like I was specifically watching the Clone Wars episode where they protect a village from pirates and Anakin is fighting the lead pirate who has an energy staff weapon and the whole time it's like "use the force and knock him over" "throw rocks at him" "push the tank off the cliff" but he just keeps parrying and dodging and ultimately kinda loses the fight. But the whole time he literally could have just force choked the guy into unconsciousness, without even hurting him really.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  5. #1665
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Like I was specifically watching the Clone Wars episode where they protect a village from pirates and Anakin is fighting the lead pirate who has an energy staff weapon and the whole time it's like "use the force and knock him over" "throw rocks at him" "push the tank off the cliff" but he just keeps parrying and dodging and ultimately kinda loses the fight. But the whole time he literally could have just force choked the guy into unconsciousness, without even hurting him really.
    Whilst I only vaguely recall the episode, Anakin was a Padawan for a large chunk of Clone Wars. He probably didn't have the proper training to focus his telekinesis like that.

  6. #1666
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Whilst I only vaguely recall the episode, Anakin was a Padawan for a large chunk of Clone Wars. He probably didn't have the proper training to focus his telekinesis like that.
    As with pretty much everything, Jedi are only as strong as they need to be to suit the story. There's no reason someone as powerful as Yoda should have had to concentrate so much to keep Obi-Wan and Anakin from being crushed by debris at the end of episode II when Dooku got away...but that was what the story called for, so that's what happened.

    It gets pretty dumb (or you go down the road of DBZ power creep) if the only people who are a challenge for the protagonists are characters who are as crazy overpowered as they are...so you have to have them be able to lose.
    Last edited by s_bushido; 2022-06-28 at 05:44 AM.

  7. #1667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Whilst I only vaguely recall the episode, Anakin was a Padawan for a large chunk of Clone Wars. He probably didn't have the proper training to focus his telekinesis like that.
    He can't have been a padawan while having one of his own (Ahsoka), nor being called a "General" by the clones (Ahsoka with her padawan status was "Commander").

    He was Knight.
    /spit@Blizzard

  8. #1668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    He can't have been a padawan while having one of his own (Ahsoka), nor being called a "General" by the clones (Ahsoka with her padawan status was "Commander").

    He was Knight.
    Depends on when he was Knighted. He fought in battles as Obi-wan's padawan in the beginning.

    He was definitely a Knight for more of the Clone Wars than Padawan, given it appears Ahsoka was made his Padawan in the first year of the Clone Wars.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
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  9. #1669
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Depends on when he was Knighted. He fought in battles as Obi-wan's padawan in the beginning.

    He was definitely a Knight for more of the Clone Wars than Padawan, given it appears Ahsoka was made his Padawan in the first year of the Clone Wars.
    Could be wrong but I think for the canon clone wars cartoon he’s always a knight and it treats his knighting from the non canon cartoon as if it happened.

    Though I haven’t rewatched any of the earlier(canon) clone wars since it came out so I might be Miss remembering and Mabye he was knighted in the first season or so.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  10. #1670
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Could be wrong but I think for the canon clone wars cartoon he’s always a knight and it treats his knighting from the non canon cartoon as if it happened.

    Though I haven’t rewatched any of the earlier(canon) clone wars since it came out so I might be Miss remembering and Mabye he was knighted in the first season or so.
    Yes, the CGI series he is always a Knight, but the series does not begin immediately follow AotC.

    There is a gap in time between AotC and the start of the Clone Wars series.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  11. #1671
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    TLJ had a lot of nonsense, but Luke's story (along with Rey's parentage) wasn't one of those. Well, apart from the fact why he got estranged with Ben-Kylo.
    I'm sorry but.. what...?! To me it just felt like Disney told JJ and Johnson that Luke was no longer and could no longer be the hero because "the Force is female", they wrote him shit on purpose and nothing in TLJ justified ANYTHING imo. They ruined Luke because they wanted to, simple as that.

    He was determined to find the good in Vader and was willing to die for it but gave up on his nephew? Bah.. just thinking about it annoys me.

    I'll agree Rey being a nobody coming from nobodies was alright, she didn't have to be a Palpatine or worse declare herself a Skywalker lmao.
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  12. #1672
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinerd View Post
    I'm sorry but.. what...?! To me it just felt like Disney told JJ and Johnson that Luke was no longer and could no longer be the hero because "the Force is female", they wrote him shit on purpose and nothing in TLJ justified ANYTHING imo. They ruined Luke because they wanted to, simple as that.

    He was determined to find the good in Vader and was willing to die for it but gave up on his nephew? Bah.. just thinking about it annoys me.

    I'll agree Rey being a nobody coming from nobodies was alright, she didn't have to be a Palpatine or worse declare herself a Skywalker lmao.
    Disney weren’t giving there writing directions based off of a Nike marketing campaign, Johnson wanted to do something different and had the freedom to do so there was no over arching mandate to down play luke.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  13. #1673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinerd View Post
    I'm sorry but.. what...?! To me it just felt like Disney told JJ and Johnson that Luke was no longer and could no longer be the hero because "the Force is female", they wrote him shit on purpose and nothing in TLJ justified ANYTHING imo. They ruined Luke because they wanted to, simple as that.

    He was determined to find the good in Vader and was willing to die for it but gave up on his nephew? Bah.. just thinking about it annoys me.

    I'll agree Rey being a nobody coming from nobodies was alright, she didn't have to be a Palpatine or worse declare herself a Skywalker lmao.
    You are quite wrong. Because JJ original ending to TFA was to have Luke like Rey was when we see her in RoS. Luke being as Luke was in TLJ was 100% Rian.

    Luke originally was mediating and fully connected to the Force in JJ visions. He disappeared for other reasons that he never got the chance to explain.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Disney weren’t giving there writing directions based off of a Nike marketing campaign, Johnson wanted to do something different and had the freedom to do so there was no over arching mandate to down play luke.
    Yep. See above.

    JJ wanted Luke in full meditation and floating and stuff. Rian told JJ to rewrite that and just have Luke standing.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  14. #1674
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinerd View Post
    He was determined to find the good in Vader and was willing to die for it but gave up on his nephew? Bah.. just thinking about it annoys me.
    You've forgotten in that same fight you're saying he was "willing to die to find the good in Vader", Luke went absolute rage-monster twice and nearly fell as completely to his Dark Side urgings as his father once had.

    You literally can't miss this, because the Emperor calls it out specifically both times it happens; this isn't interpretation or guesswork, Palpatine literally says he's falling to the Dark Side.

    Luke's victory there had nothing with trying to find any "good" in Vader. Luke absolutely wanted Vader dead. And he kept reaching for the Dark Side for the power to pull that off. Luke's victory was in realizing he was reaching for that power, and choosing to refuse it and give up his anger and hatred for Vader.

    So we've got a finale where Luke is clearly shown tapping into the Dark Side instinctively out of fear and anger and hatred, and barely pulling himself back from the brink of falling completely to the Dark Side, and then a single moment where Luke sees the (entirely accurate!) darkness within Ben Solo and briefly panics and thumbs his saber, before realizing nearly immediately he was listening to his Dark impulses again. There was no "giving up", just a brief moment of fear and panic, and if he hadn't had his saber on him, Ben might've never even known.

    You're wildly misrepresenting both scenes.


  15. #1675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You are quite wrong. Because JJ original ending to TFA was to have Luke like Rey was when we see her in RoS. Luke being as Luke was in TLJ was 100% Rian.

    Luke originally was mediating and fully connected to the Force in JJ visions. He disappeared for other reasons that he never got the chance to explain..
    Do you happen to have a source for that? If not I'll try and google but asking is easier. I do remember reading that JJ disliked Luke from the get-go as well so.. but yeah misinformation spreading all over the place so who knows whats true anymore. Either way, it did feel weird leaving him out of TFA and not having that scene with him, Leia and Han tbh. Big mistake imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    -snip-
    I havn't forgotten shit, nor have I misrepresented anything. Luke went there willing to die for Vader, what happened during their duel is irrelevant to that fact.

    Also Luke was about to give up on Ben, him realizing his mistake later is again irrelvant to the fact he was about to do something that Luke wouldn't do - and I say wouldn't do because we've been shown nothing that would indicate he suddenly would which is a mistake on the writers part not on the viewer.

    Would hardly call it misrepresenting.

    Then again, you do have a habit of making up shit to win arguments for whatever reason.
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  16. #1676
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinerd View Post
    Do you happen to have a source for that? If not I'll try and google but asking is easier. I do remember reading that JJ disliked Luke from the get-go as well so.. but yeah misinformation spreading all over the place so who knows whats true anymore. Either way, it did feel weird leaving him out of TFA and not having that scene with him, Leia and Han tbh. Big mistake imo.
    https://www.slashfilm.com/555537/sta...iginal-ending/

    This article quotes Mark Hamill on it.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  17. #1677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    https://www.slashfilm.com/555537/sta...iginal-ending/

    This article quotes Mark Hamill on it.
    Cheers.

    My mistake.
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  18. #1678
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinerd View Post
    I havn't forgotten shit, nor have I misrepresented anything. Luke went there willing to die for Vader, what happened during their duel is irrelevant to that fact.

    Also Luke was about to give up on Ben, him realizing his mistake later is again irrelvant to the fact he was about to do something that Luke wouldn't do - and I say wouldn't do because we've been shown nothing that would indicate he suddenly would which is a mistake on the writers part not on the viewer.

    Would hardly call it misrepresenting.

    Then again, you do have a habit of making up shit to win arguments for whatever reason.
    There's nothing being "made up".

    Luke, canonically and definitively, nearly fell to the Dark Side in the finale.

    TLJ does not suggest Luke was giving up on Ben. The third time they show that scene, where it's not either of their twisted memories, it's a brief moment of panic, immediately suppressed, but not before he thumbs his saber for a moment. And seeing the saber light up tripped the same darkness in Ben that had wigged out Luke in the first place. In the final take on that scene, Luke's admitting that he failed Ben, but the failure was in letting that fear take control for even that fleeting moment. He literally says this, right out loud, as they're showing what actually happened, so there's no confusion about this at all. Luke was concerned, then he saw Snoke had already gotten into Ben's head, and his immediate reaction was fear rather than love, and that was Luke's failure in that moment. One he was immediately ashamed of.

    "Snoke had already turned his heart. He would bring destruction, and pain, and death, and the end of everything I love because of what he will become. And for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it." And then he fires the lightsaber up. "It passed like a fleeting shadow, and I was left with shame. And with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him."

    It's all right there, in the actual scene.
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-06-29 at 03:18 PM.


  19. #1679
    The Unstoppable Force Elim Garak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Disney weren’t giving there writing directions based off of a Nike marketing campaign.
    It doesn't matter who made the t-shirt. It could be Etzy.
    I find it hard to believe that Disney and Nike weren't collaborating on that slogan. "The Force" is a trademark of Lucasfilm. Hence she's wearing the T-shirt. Sneaky.
    And coupled with her statements about that - Nike is irrelevant. The slogan is relevant.
    All right, gentleperchildren, let's review. The year is 2022 - that's two-zero-two-two, as in the 21st Century's perfect vision - and I am sorry to say the world has become a pussy-whipped, Brady Bunch version of itself, run by a bunch of double-masked tripple-jabbed sissies who stand with Ukraine.

  20. #1680
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    It doesn't matter who made the t-shirt. It could be Etzy.
    I find it hard to believe that Disney and Nike weren't collaborating on that slogan. "The Force" is a trademark of Lucasfilm. Hence she's wearing the T-shirt. Sneaky.
    And coupled with her statements about that - Nike is irrelevant. The slogan is relevant.
    Yes I’m sure Disney worked with Nike to make the Air Force line of shoes just so they could have KK wear a shirt at a film festival that had nothing to do with starwars, you cracked the code all is now made clear.

    Next you should turn your talents to the other great theory’s of history like how the Pyramids were actually used to power alien space ships or how jet fuel can’t melt steel beams.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

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