[TV] Disney+ Star Wars: Obi-Wan Kenobi

[Elim Garak]

Did we play different SWtors because sith in that act like teen abets all the time and constantly throw tantrums.

Comparing poorly acted characters with beautifully animated and voiced over characters. Ok.
The problem is not with the writing.

Hint: Inquisitors in Rebels were AWESOME, while even MORE PETTY. They were believable. They were not teenagers, they were Sith.

[Endus]

Did we play different SWtors because sith in that act like teen abets all the time and constantly throw tantrums.

The best example is proabbly Darth Baras who not only was on the Sith councils but also almost became the speaker for the emperor.

Then there’s death Thanaton who is upset about your rise through the ranks and betrays the empires war effect because of it before whining before the council about you after you Beat him, and then there are countless lower Sith like the acolyte trainer for the SI who goes against his own masters wishes because he wants a pure blood to be elevated not a slave.

There are are likely more teenage esc Sith in Swtor then not.

I've done 7 of the 8 class stories through to the finish, though just once each. My Dark-Side Sith Inquisitor was the fucking silliest thing, and not for the core story (which was kind of neat), but the Dark-side choices. Nearly all of them for that class boiled down to "shock the guy with Sith Lightning and cackle like a banshee at how EEEVULLL you are".

Light-side Sith Warrior was fun as hell, though. The general feel is "The Sith could be great, but you're all emo torture babies and it's fucking pathetic." You can keep that right on into the DLC when you're mouthing off to the Emperor himself who's stuck in your head, who at least isn't written to be a moron.

[Elim Garak]

I've done 7 of the 8 class stories through to the finish, though just once each. My Dark-Side Sith Inquisitor was the fucking silliest thing, and not for the core story (which was kind of neat), but the Dark-side choices. Nearly all of them for that class boiled down to "shock the guy with Sith Lightning and cackle like a banshee at how EEEVULLL you are".

Well Dark Side inquisitor is kinda mad. What with all those other personalities inside. At least it was fun.

P.S. Played all class stories Light and Dark 16 walkthrus, not proud.

[Orange Joe]

Leia may know something, even if it is small. There is no reason to assume she knows absolutely nothing of value.
Regardless of how Leia got there, she may know something of the path and that potential information is valuable to the Inquisitors.



There was no evidence an air attack was going to come.

"They should be expecting it because I say so." That's your argument. It's fictional.

In the first movie, we see that the Empire did not consider a single fighter a threat to the Death Star. And even when they determined there was a risk to Rebel attack, Tarkin refused to evacuate or even prepare to. You are ignoring that the Empire is arrogant.



Vader is doing what Vader does, but it doesn't make sense he didn't kill Reva despite being in what his character is shown to have be ... therefore bad writing?

Two of your complaints are literally "Star Wars being what Star Wars is doesn't make sense!"

Radar is a thing in star wars. There is no way they should have been able to sneak up to the base.

[Darththeo]

Radar is a thing in star wars. There is no way they should have been able to sneak up to the base.

Radar only works is there is someone paying attention to it. If the radar had an auto alert system, someone has to respond to it.

Again, the Empire routinely is shown that they underestimate the dangers that their opponents could present.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Comparing poorly acted characters with beautifully animated and voiced over characters. Ok.
The problem is not with the writing.

Hint: Inquisitors in Rebels were AWESOME, while even MORE PETTY. They were believable. They were not teenagers, they were Sith.

I wouldn't quite say Swtor is beautifully animated, but that's besides the point. I'm not comparing any characters I'm contesting that Swtor Sith don't act like teen agers or throw tantrums with a few examples given.

[Orange Joe]

Radar only works is there is someone paying attention to it. If the radar had an auto alert system, someone has to respond to it.

Again, the Empire routinely is shown that they underestimate the dangers that their opponents could present.

Just stop... you think a top secret base isn't going to have radar manned? or in the star wars universe with faster than light travel they don't have a automated alert system for ships flying towards a top secret military base?

Does it ruin the show? for me no. It is bad/not thought out writing? Very much so yes....

[Endus]

Just stop... you think a top secret base isn't going to have radar manned? or in the star wars universe with faster than light travel they don't have a automated alert system for ships flying towards a top secret military base?

In Star Wars? Absolutely. They're consistently shown using primarily active scanning, not passive. If someone isn't sitting at a console and actively choosing to look for things, then nobody's looking.

See also the Millenium falcon managing to hide on the back of a Star Destroyer's bridge tower. There were no automated systems recording the Falcon's flight path that could be rewound to follow where it went; the dude manning the scanners lost track in the chaos, and that's that.

See also security/scout droids who have "eyes" that aim in one direction, rather than a 360 degree field of vision. See also that they don't have manned camera systems, like, anywhere. It's just how things work in the setting. It may be silly, but it's been part of the setting the whole time.

Also, the Fortress Inquisitorius is barely "secret". It's clearly highly trafficked; we see a metric ton of troops and officers there. There's gonna be consistent supply and materiel transports in and out, as well as troop transfers. It's just not an openly-admitted fact to the Imperial public. If they were REALLY trying to keep it a secret, you wouldn't build a giant black monolith poking out on a water planet; you'd at least leave off the above-water bit, and you'd make it as self-sufficient as possible to minimize traffic to and from. It's more like Area 51 or something; if you're a local or you're paying, like, any attention, you can totally tell it's there, but the government doesn't give press releases about it or what's done there.

[Elim Garak]

I wouldn't quite say Swtor is beautifully animated, but that's besides the point. I'm not comparing any characters I'm contesting that Swtor Sith don't act like teen agers or throw tantrums with a few examples given.

There are very few Sith who act like teenagers - they all end up dead. Your examples are not that. There's a lot of context and depth to Baras, you would've known that if you played the Sith Warrior story. He is no teenager. Just a Pompous Ass.

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In Star Wars? Absolutely.

And yet Death Star has TIE-fighter patrols flying far enough, and the Death Star itself is littered with Turbo-laser turrets, especially the trench.

Usual military stuff. If we assume they have no passive radars (which is ridiculous) that makes sense they would use physical patrols to scan for intruders. After all fighter pilots are no good chilling at the cantina.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There are very few Sith who act like teenagers - they all end up dead. Your examples are not that. There's a lot of context and depth to Baras, you would've known that if you played the Sith Warrior story. He is no teenager. Just a Pompous Ass.

I've played through the sith warrior story 3 or 4 times, Baras absolutely acts like a teenager he pretends to mature and superiors and when thing's don't go his way he throws tantrums and he acts the same way all the way up to his death in front of the council.

https://youtu.be/05jf_k5hBxM

many other Sith act the same way or show other teenager characteristics rather it be lashing out, whining, being overly edgy ect.

[Elim Garak]

I've played through the sith warrior story 3 or 4 times, Baras absolutely acts like a teenager he pretends to mature and superiors and when thing's don't go his way he throws tantrums and he acts the same way all the way up to his death in front of the council.

many other Sith act the same way or show other teenager characteristics rather it be lashing out, whining, being overly edgy ect.

Baras is a typical Grandiose Narc. Don't confuse a personality disorder with being a teenager.

Look at any US politician and see how they behave when things don't go their way or someone calls their bluff.

[Jastall]

How old was Anakin when he became Vader? How much time has passed? Because it sounds as if he's still a temperamental immature psycho.

Temperamental immature psychos describes almost every Sith seen in the movies in the first place. Only Dooku and Palpatine seen able to somewhat keep their cool, the rest all act like emo teens that happen to have psychic powers and laser swords.

[Endus]

And yet Death Star has TIE-fighter patrols flying far enough, and the Death Star itself is littered with Turbo-laser turrets, especially the trench.

You don't recall those trench turrets being actively manned? Cause I sure do.

Star Wars doesn't do automation. They have droids, but even droids are just another kind of sentient, albeit ones that are almost entirely enslaved. They're just as fallible as anyone.

Usual military stuff. If we assume they have no passive radars (which is ridiculous) that makes sense they would use physical patrols to scan for intruders. After all fighter pilots are no good chilling at the cantina.

Sure, but as we saw in the episode, the speeders launched from another ship that was hiding in the cloud cover.

My first thought when they attacked was "wait, those look like the same base vehicle as Snow Speeders, they'd need a base to launch from", but then they showed them loading up into that ship, and that was settled. They've definitely shown ships using cloud cover and the like to evade patrols, before, in past installments.

How did the Empire sneak up on the Rebel base on Hoth? How is the Falcon consistently able to evade patrols despite appearing like a perfectly normal freighter? How do the Empire on the Forest Moon of Endor not know the Rebels landed some assault troops? Etc. The whole thing falls apart if you assume there's constant passive scanning that's being analyzed by automated systems and tossing up warnings.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Baras is a typical Grandiose Narc. Don't confuse a personality disorder with being a teenager.

Look at any US politician and see how they behave when things don't go their way or someone calls their bluff.

A need for admiration
A lack of empathy
An exaggerated sense of importance
Persistent fantasies of increased success, power, happiness, love, intelligence, or physical appearance
A belief that they are so special that they should only associate with other special people
A belief that they should receive special attention, treatment, and gifts
A tendency to take advantage of other people or situations to fulfill their goals
Lacking care, compassion, and empathy for others
Being envious of others and thinking that others are envious of them
Appearing arrogant, conceited, or self-absorbed

Very high confidence and self-esteem
Superiority and entitlement
Impulsivity
Anger, hostility, and verbal or physical aggression when confronted
Exploitation of others

Sound's like alot of teenagers to me.

[Elim Garak]

You don't recall those trench turrets being actively manned? Cause I sure do.

You don't recall not seeing any turrets at the base? Cause I sure don't
I don't understand what the manned part has to do. They have the stromtroopers.

Star Wars doesn't do automation. They have droids, but even droids are just another kind of sentient, albeit ones that are almost entirely enslaved. They're just as fallible as anyone.

Star Was certainly does automation. Some droids having sentient mode - doesn't negate that. But that's again irrelevant. They do have imperial personnel at the military base. And at the military base even if they don't have a computer built into radar (they have), alarms (they do) - there will be a radar operator at all times, 6 duty shifts 4 hours each in a rotation. And they will be watching the radar data and if they see something sus - bam. Alarms goes off, turrets get manned, pilots leave the cantina.

But they do have radars active/passive - same shit different implementation - and this radars constantly non-stop pinging 360 sphere around the base. They have the holographic technology to even show everything a radar sees - we've seen plenty of that coolness during Clone Wars.

Sure, but as we saw in the episode, the speeders launched from another ship that was hiding in the cloud cover.

They should've been detected right away. They've left the base ship. Or the moment they entered the radar range.

How did the Empire sneak up on the Rebel base on Hoth? How is the Falcon consistently able to evade patrols despite appearing like a perfectly normal freighter? How do the Empire on the Forest Moon of Endor not know the Rebels landed some assault troops? Etc. The whole thing falls apart if you assume there's constant passive scanning that's being analyzed by automated systems and tossing up warnings.

Empire didn't sneak up on rebels on Hoth. They found them on Hoth and launched the ground offensive because of shields around the base iirc. Literally the re-enaction of battle for Naboo but in snow.

From wookiepedia:

"My lord, the fleet has moved out of lightspeed. Com-scan has detected an energy field protecting an area of the sixth planet of the Hoth system. The field is strong enough to deflect any bombardment."
"The Rebels are alerted to our presence. Admiral Ozzel came out of lightspeed too close to the system."
"He...He felt surprise was wiser—"
"He is as clumsy as he is stupid. General, prepare your troops for a surface attack."
"Yes, my Lord."
―General Maximillian Veers and Darth Vader

Sound's like alot of teenagers to me.

You are missing the point.
Here enjoy teenagers arguing about the wall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wm-NtMkqz8

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You are missing the point.
Here enjoy teenagers arguing about the wall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wm-NtMkqz8

I don't think I am when you want to use trump as an example as he's absolutely acts like a teenagers or mabye even younger.

[Elim Garak]

I don't think I am when you want to use trump as an example as he's absolutely acts like a teenagers or mabye even younger.

Trump was not the only teenager there, the only mature one was Pence.

[Endus]

You don't recall not seeing any turrets at the base? Cause I sure don't
I don't understand what the manned part has to do. They have the stromtroopers.

Turrets aren't active and seeking targets unless an order goes out. That's the point. You literally see them activate the turrets.

Star Was certainly does automation. Some droids having sentient mode - doesn't negate that.

What examples do you have of automation in Star Wars that isn't a droid? I mean something which can make decisions, not just assembly-line automation. Hell, records checks are mostly done by personnel, too; they're as "automated" as any modern-day TSA checkpoint.

But that's again irrelevant. They do have imperial personnel at the military base. And at the military base even if they don't have a computer built into radar (they have), alarms (they do) - there will be a radar operator at all times, 6 duty shifts 4 hours each in a rotation. And they will be watching the radar data and if they see something sus - bam. Alarms goes off, turrets get manned, pilots leave the cantina.

Why are you assuming those radar are manned that actively at all times?

Because it's convenient for your argument? Because we've certainly seen cases where they weren't.

They should've been detected right away. They've left the base ship. Or the moment they entered the radar range.

And why would they stand out from all the other traffic, even if they were? There's a ton of traffic into and out of Fortress Inquisitorius. The landing bay is absolutely bumping with activity every time we see it.

[Orange Joe]

You don't recall those trench turrets being actively manned? Cause I sure do.

Star Wars doesn't do automation. They have droids, but even droids are just another kind of sentient, albeit ones that are almost entirely enslaved. They're just as fallible as anyone.



Sure, but as we saw in the episode, the speeders launched from another ship that was hiding in the cloud cover.

My first thought when they attacked was "wait, those look like the same base vehicle as Snow Speeders, they'd need a base to launch from", but then they showed them loading up into that ship, and that was settled. They've definitely shown ships using cloud cover and the like to evade patrols, before, in past installments.

How did the Empire sneak up on the Rebel base on Hoth? How is the Falcon consistently able to evade patrols despite appearing like a perfectly normal freighter? How do the Empire on the Forest Moon of Endor not know the Rebels landed some assault troops? Etc. The whole thing falls apart if you assume there's constant passive scanning that's being analyzed by automated systems and tossing up warnings.

They didn't? A random probe driod found them as Han destroyed it. they were already leaving when the empire showed up and they were seen as soon as they left hyperspace.

Falcon was able to evade because it's suppose to be a fast ship and cause Han and chewie are some of the best pilots.

They can literally detect as soon as someone enters or leaves hyerspace. No way that ship enters that system and someone didn't know. Could it have been a fail on someone in the base? Sure, but it should have been shown in some way.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sensor

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And why would they stand out from all the other traffic, even if they were? There's a ton of traffic into and out of Fortress Inquisitorius. The landing bay is absolutely bumping with activity every time we see it.

You mean all the IMPERIAL ships? The ones that would already be identified on the IFF as Imperial?

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Transponder_code

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Sure, but as we saw in the episode, the speeders launched from another ship that was hiding in the cloud cover.

Now that you mention it there is another problem. Those are suppose to be LOW altitude fliers. Canon wookiepedia has them only going up to 175 meters. no way are they suppose to be reaching cloud cover.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/T-47_airspeeder

[Elim Garak]

Turrets aren't active and seeking targets unless an order goes out. That's the point. You literally see them activate the turrets.

The base was on alert. Standard procedure is to man the stations.
Though there were no turrets at the base. Which is odd.

What examples do you have of automation in Star Wars that isn't a droid?

Where is this prejudice towards droids come from? Droid is LITERALLY an automaton. Just because they have an advanced AI that can develop into a personality if you don't wipe it periodically doesn't change the fact that they are the automation incarnates - and do all the hard labor. More precisely.

But if you want the dumb automation - that factory that cut Anakin's hand. It was pretty automated.

And I seriously cannot believe you doubted the existence of automation in a HIGH TECH universe. Yeah, like it's manual labor of Tatooine across the galaxy. Tatooine is a shithole for a reason.

I mean something which can make decisions, not just assembly-line automation. Hell, records checks are mostly done by personnel, too; they're as "automated" as any modern-day TSA checkpoint.

I don't get it. Do you want droids or not? Star Wars literally has everything. Please explain assassin droids who can do all the checking, tracking and decisioning, down to executioning. Sounds like pretty automationing.

We see humans at checkpoints - so that heroes can fool/intimidate them and Jedi can mind trick them.

We let THAT slide.

Why are you assuming those radar are manned that actively at all times?

Because that's what radars are for. Radars we use on planet Earth. I doubt the purpose of radar was different a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
They also don't need to be manned all the time - they can BEEP every time there's BLIP.

Because it's convenient for your argument? Because we've certainly seen cases where they weren't.

Just because it was convenient for the plot?

And why would they stand out from all the other traffic, even if they were? There's a ton of traffic into and out of Fortress Inquisitorius. The landing bay is absolutely bumping with activity every time we see it.

First of all, what traffic? When they arrive there was no traffic - Reva had to Force Throw an explosive to take one down. That's how much traffic there was. Also turrets. Plenty.

Secondly. If there was any traffic - they would've been spotted even faster than the imperial radar operator could press "PING" on the radar.