[TV] Disney+ Star Wars: Obi-Wan Kenobi

[Darththeo]

Dang we've come full circle and started with the KK slander again. You know the show is good when people start trying to make you feel bad about liking it. In a couple more projects they are going to be saying "this project is trash, Kenobi was the last good thing put out because KK had nothing to do with it".

Given that there are Kennedy haters still complain "Disney never should have hired her!" I don't expect them to change at any point. It is a constant shifting of what is hated. Honestly there are people who say they hate Star Wars products so much and yet they are always the first to watch the new Star Wars show.

(If anyone is unaware, Kathleen Kennedy is George Lucas' choice to run Lucasfilm, she was promoted by HIM into her position shortly before Disney bought Lucasfilm. She would with Lucas for a long time. Lucas trusts her.)

[Biomega]

Instead of releasing the trailers and letting them speak for themselves, the companies go on the offensive and attack viewers before the shows are even out to blame them for not liking the show. These companies show weakness through their actions because they know their content isn't good or won't be well received, and instead of giving what people will actually want and enjoy en masse, these companies would rather push their terrible content and blame everyone but themselves for their issues.

That's just silly hyperbole and propagandist rhetoric.

No company would operate like that, let alone one that makes tens of billions and that's been around for a century.

Does that mean everything they do makes sense and is optimal? Of course not. They make mistakes all the time, but hindsight is 20/20. The entertainment industry is notorious for being difficult to predict, even with hundreds of people behind the market and audience research as no doubt is the case here.

Why do they do things you object to? Ostensibly because they think enough OTHER people want to see it. Is THAT always right? No. Of course not. But that's a very different narrative than "they know their stuff sucks, they know people hate it, but they're somehow evil and purposely don't give people what they want".

What that kind of statement REALLY is, is nothing more than an "anti-woke" dog whistle. You're effectively intimating that there's some kind of conspiracy at work with Disney, where somehow a multi-billion-dollar corporation wants to push a political agenda that they KNOW actively hurts their bottom line because... actually, I have no idea what the reasons could be, or what people come up with as possible reasons. Probably something involving pizza and child pornography.

That's ludicrous on every level, makes no sense either politically OR economically, and is backed by nothing except people's wild imagination, misinformed willful ignorance, and a vague general sense of dissatisfaction.

What's more likely the ACTUAL case here is the standard Hollywood shenanigans of people having an inflated sense of self-importance, and a mistaken evaluation of their own ability to recognize quality. Partly that's because the hierarchical command structures of the companies behind those products encourage promotion of people with personalities particularly susceptible to such biases, and partly it's because Hollywood has always cultivated a cultural scene of aloof egomaniacs whose primary residence is in exactly the wrong section of the Dunning-Kruger curve. And of course this has created a feedback loop over the years where audiences have become acclimatized to bad writing, and because they let it slide it causes more bad writing in an entire spiral of mainstream quality decline.

There's exceptions. Some people are genuinely talented AND able to navigate corporate structure enough to bring that talent to bear. That's how we get stuff like The Mandalorian. And other things are not ALL bad, and have some great moments in them, too; we need to do better as audiences to recognize, reward, and even DEMAND those things over the run-off-the-mill drivel we've become far too complacent with.

In any event, there isn't some bizarre leftist conspiracy at work. Only the results of decades of corporate machinery subverting quality in the name of profit, and our complacency with the results that feeds into the spiral.

[Ivanstone]

When you look at the Kenobi show, very little of the show is about Kenobi and his actions. For almost the entirety of the show, Kenobi is a passive character who gets lead around by everyone else (basically, he has no agency in his own show).

And what would a Kenobi show where he has full agency look like?

Oh right him working as a butcher by day, hiding in a cave by night, occasionally checking in on Luke. For 20 years. Which is a choice he made.

I guess they could make a sitcom about the zany hi-jinks of a bunch of butchers toiling in the hot suns of Tatooine. Kenobi wouldn't be doing too many hi-jinks but he could occasionally drop some of pearl of wisdom. Not too much wisdom or the Inquisition would come calling.

[Slybak]

What that kind of statement REALLY is, is nothing more than an "anti-woke" dog whistle. You're effectively intimating that there's some kind of conspiracy at work with Disney, where somehow a multi-billion-dollar corporation wants to push a political agenda that they KNOW actively hurts their bottom line because... actually, I have no idea what the reasons could be, or what people come up with as possible reasons. Probably something involving pizza and child pornography.

These Geniuses: "Boo hoo, why does the Disney Corporation keep producing and marketing content with an eye toward satisfying the aesthetic tastes of urban cosmopolitans? That's Marxism!"

The Reality: They do this because those are the ideological conditions under which more people with more disposable income - a.k.a. customers - actually live, and so placating their tastes is more conducive to maximizing ROI. And its not new. The culture industry has been doing this since the early 70s with the so-called "Rural Purge"; when the major TV broadcasters canceled shows like Hee Haw and Green Acres and replaced them with shows like Good Times and the Mary Tyler Moore Show.

[Adamas102]

When you look at the Kenobi show, very little of the show is about Kenobi and his actions. For almost the entirety of the show, Kenobi is a passive character who gets lead around by everyone else (basically, he has no agency in his own show). Instead, the characters who are being pushed and actually doing stuff are mainly Reva and Leia... and they're the weakest characters in the show in terms of writing (to be fair, the bar is pretty low for everyone in this show). The writing is all about pushing a narrative that doesn't make sense but tries to make Reva and Leia the real focus of the show, and the world has to bend so much to have that happen. In order to distract people, they'll jingle the keys every now and then with nostalgia to distract people from the abysmal show. The end result is that the franchise as a whole is worse off in the end with a plot that makes no sense and has so many holes and logical inconsistencies that it's hard not to go 5 minutes into an episode without getting distracted by silly/dumb things.

This is just about the dumbest take I've seen so far about the show.

The whole show centers around Kenobi and him breaking out from the self imposed exile the prequels left him in. The point was for him to regain agency, so it makes perfect sense for him to start as a passive character that needed an external influence to jump start his story at this point. It also makes sense that one of the only threats that would pull him from Tatooine and Luke would be a threat to the other sibling. Reva's part in the story was fine as well. It was made perfectly clear that kidnapping a senator's child was a reckless move. That's where a young, impulsive inquisitor comes into play.

And let's be honest, Star Wars has been riddled with plot holes and inconsistencies since the original trilogy, only made worse by the prequel and sequel trilogies. It was never great writing to begin with, but has usually been entertaining enough with its spectacle, world building, and simplistic stories.

Was the show perfect? Hardly. Could one think of a variety of other ways to move along the narrative in a similar way? No doubt. However, this was still a perfectly fine way of injecting a story into the otherwise boring state that the end of Episodes III and beginning of Episode IV had for the character of Obi-Wan.

[Jastall]

Show wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Definitely started off quite weak and few of the original characters are standout but the last two episodes are pretty decent, even if mostly because you can see Vader and Obi-Wan cut loose.

Final duel was the best scene. I particularly liked how much they used the Force itself which is often forgotten in SW duels in favor of swishy swashy lightsaber action for minutes on end. Dialog wasn't anything special but Ewan acted the hell out of the part.

I do think Reva feels a bit superflous as a character. Not entirely so, but her part could have been written far better; admittedly I could say the same for 95% of all Star Wars characters but still.

[Polyxo]

I really thought Ewan McGregor did an excellent job. His performance makes Alec Guiness's performance even more interesting, where now some of his dialogue here and there feels like some of his more reserved speech feels like he's avoiding his own raw nerves here and there. The girl who played Leia is also very good, she reminds me of Mara Wilson.

I feel like some of Reva's parts were a little bit underwhelming, and looking through some of the discussion. I think Moses Ingram did an excellent job with the material she's given. However, I think a lot of her material was too brief and quick for the subject matter. The general concept of Reva is a really cool idea for Star Wars, and reminds me of the dynamic of some child soldiers taken from their parents in conflict zones, who wind up in some mixture of service to and resentment of their captors, as well as some really dark feelings towards their parents/caretakers. I think the blame for the lackluster part of it really falls with production, rather than acting or writing. I think Disney wanted to be conservative with their investment and have a concise, self contained story in 6 episodes. Reva really needed more screen time, I think, and it seemed like every time the writers started to touch on something interesting with her (like how she was going to go with interrogating and possibly torturing Leia, which seemed like it was something she may have experienced), they ushered the viewers on to the next thing to see.

I wanted the things Reva went through (and to a lesser extent, Kenobi's PTSD/survivor's guilt) to be explored more gradually. I think where we got with how the main characters are could've taken a few seasons, or at least several more episodes.

[GreenJesus]

So Kenobi had Vader on his knees barely able to fight back and he just peaces out?? Seriously? If you had Hitler defenseless, not killing him is basically sentencing millions of more people to die. I know that movies 4-6 have to happen, but they could have written his exit better.

I get that he felt sorry for Anakin, but anakin is gone. Finish what you started 20 years ago when you left him to die in the lava.

[Bakis]

Yea Ewan rocked. And I goto say I was deeply impressed by the duel in the finale between Ben and Jerry and Dork Wader. It was freaking awesome, props to the director.
So did the plot and general episodes.
Just that 7-10mins of a 36 min episode being intro etc. Who dubbed voices to X languanger literally is 2 mins alone.

It was really good, but not as good as Mandalorian or Fett, cos it was so much shorter actual content.
It was more or less 6x 35 mins all in all.

[Kyphael]

Just watched the final two episodes. Great series. Loved that final duel and the awesome surprise cameo at the very end. Not sure how I feel about Reva's ending being so... open-ended. I wouldn't be interested in her own spin off series, maybe that's not the purpose, and she's just free now like Obi-Wan said. Either way, I liked her journey and thought the actor did a fine job with the role. Not sure I'd even want a Season 2, this was too perfect as is and bridges perfectly to New Hope now. Well, as well as Disney could have done, anyway. It's amazing how night and day the quality is between the Disney+ series and the sequel trilogy.

[Biomega]

So Kenobi had Vader on his knees barely able to fight back and he just peaces out?? Seriously? If you had Hitler defenseless, not killing him is basically sentencing millions of more people to die.

That's a classic moral dilemma, common in all kinds of fiction. Want to count the number of innocent dead people caused by Batman choosing not to kill villains, allowing them to escape and murder again and again?

But aside from that - Vader isn't the One Bad Guy of the Empire. Killing him won't magically stop its stranglehold on the galaxy. Heck, even killing Palpatine shouldn't have done that, yet they somehow celebrated like it would (and let's ignore the whole sequel stuff for a second there).

Same thing with Hitler, by the way. If you think killing Hitler would have magically stopped the Nazis from continuing on their extermination crusade, you seriously misunderstand historical circumstance.

You COULD argue that killing Vader would save at least SOME people. Not millions, but at least a good bunch that wouldn't otherwise be killed. That's a Jedi problem, I suppose, and a problem with many other forms of RL pacifist philosophies - if you avoid taking lives yourself, then sometimes that can mean indirectly allowing other lives to be taken. It's a difficult point to argue, ESPECIALLY in a fictional setting where good/evil are more or less tangible forces rather than just abstract concepts. While we might object from our morality, you could argue that Obi-Wan killing Vader would have corrupted him, potentially causing even more harm. Doubly so in view of the role Vader would eventually play in overthrowing Palpatine (the whole why-didn't-LotR-just-kill-Gollum-thing all over again, I suppose).

[qwerty123456]

Vader's the Chosen One. Luke in the OT is essentially an ambulatory Maguffin who exists to trigger his dad's parental emotions. This is literally the point of the finale of RotJ and what made that finale such an interesting take. That Luke could only beat Vader if he tapped into the Dark Side, losing himself to the Emperor in the process. Luke could not win.

Small correction Vader was the Chosen One in the old lore. New lore states Palpatine transferred into a new body as he was falling.

[Elim Garak]

They don’t have exclusive control over Mando.

Did I say they had exclusive control of the Lucasfilm? No. They had exclusive control of how Mando is made. A single show.

And I never said that KK didn't do her job good sometimes. After all she wouldn't be in charge for so long. So money wise she was profitable. I don't know what she actually did good or bad though, besides the sequel trilogy, and now Kenobi. Maybe her strength is merchandize - crappy shows with toys for kids in it.

[MCMLXXXII]

Did I say they had exclusive control of the Lucasfilm? No. They had exclusive control of how Mando is made. A single show.

And I never said that KK didn't do her job good sometimes. After all she wouldn't be in charge for so long. So money wise she was profitable. I don't know what she actually did good or bad though, besides the sequel trilogy, and now Kenobi. Maybe her strength is merchandize - crappy shows with toys for kids in it.

And neither did Ivanstone. KK is still executive producer on Mando.

[Elim Garak]

And neither did Ivanstone. KK is still executive producer on Mando.

Which is completely irrelevant to my point since all shows must go thru her approval she will be credited on them. Perks of being an executive at the studio level. That's the problem with credits in Hollywood. Wrong people get the credit. Never praise executives for the job done well. Most of the time it's when they don't get that much involved when the job gets done well.

And with Mando that was the deal.

[Darththeo]

So Kenobi had Vader on his knees barely able to fight back and he just peaces out?? Seriously? If you had Hitler defenseless, not killing him is basically sentencing millions of more people to die. I know that movies 4-6 have to happen, but they could have written his exit better.

I get that he felt sorry for Anakin, but anakin is gone. Finish what you started 20 years ago when you left him to die in the lava.

So you understand exactly why Obi-wan peaces out. The difference between your hypothetical is that I have no personal connection to Hitler. I only know the atrocities he had done. It is a lot harder to kill someone you care about, even if they are a mass murderer.

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Which is completely irrelevant to my point since all shows must go thru her approval she will be credited on them. Perks of being an executive at the studio level. That's the problem with credits in Hollywood. Wrong people get the credit. Never praise executives for the job done well. Most of the time it's when they don't get that much involved when the job gets done well.

And with Mando that was the deal.

Again, they do not have the level of control on Mando that you think they do. They have near full control on the show, but not complete control. The shows are not allowed to conflict with other canon. Which is why though they wanted Luke to come for Grogu, Grogu could not stay with Luke as it was established that the first student at Luke's new school was Ben Solo.

This is why in Book of Boba Fett the school is under construction and not finished.

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Small correction Vader was the Chosen One in the old lore. New lore states Palpatine transferred into a new body as he was falling.

If you say Vader is not the Chosen One in the new lore, Vader wasn't the Chosen One in the old lore either.

Palpatine spirit returned in a clone body in the Old lore too.

[Lady Atia]

Filoni and Favro were given exclusive control over Mando. There were even rumors of them deposing KK. That's like History by now, not MY argument. Just a fact. They were given Carte Blanche - and they delivered. Then KK touched it and we got Boba (Kenobi show, Ahsoka show <- the one I worry about now, Andor show - and now incoming Reva show, Leia show - money money money must be funny)

I never understood complains about us getting new content. 10 years ago we would have been happy enough to just get one star wars tv show, now we get a lot of them and it's awesome. And booh hooh, sure it's about money, that's how the world works sadly. But as long as I'm entertained, they can have my money and support.

Also - is the Leia show confirmed? Holy moly, that's gonna be awesome! I had hoped we would see the new actress growing up in the coming years as our new princess. <3

[Darththeo]

I never understood complains about us getting new content. 10 years ago we would have been happy enough to just get one star wars tv show, now we get a lot of them and it's awesome. And booh hooh, sure it's about money, that's how the world works sadly. But as long as I'm entertained, they can have my money and support.

Also - is the Leia show confirmed? Holy moly, that's gonna be awesome! I had hoped we would see the new actress growing up in the coming years as our new princess. <3

Also, it is Disney. Disney's history shows that they do tons for money. All the movies with Direct to VHS/DvD sequels. The movies that had spin off TV series.
The marketing for toys. The reused animations in classic cartoons.

Disney making money is to be expected. Anyone who thinks Disney doesn't care about money or doesn't focus on how to make money hasn't paid attention to Disney.

[Elim Garak]

I never understood complains about us getting new content.

Literally no one complains about that.
Rather the quality of content. And if you don't complain - it won't improve.

[Syegfryed]

I think the last two episodes were good, with the exception of Reva, she almost became a good character, almost, but then, all the whole, unnecessary bullshit thing in tattoine. The only thing good coming from that was Luke family getting some action.

And dude, how the child survive a burning hole in the stomach from the size of a small pipe, thats such bs.


And to me, the highlights is seeing they actually using the damn force, Vader display of power pulling the ship and destroying, Obi wan with the stones, that is good visual stuff that i want in a star wars/jedi show.