Torghast Has Poor Asthetics

[Kokolums]

Torghast builds on the notions of torture and sin and tries to emote a horror vibe with spikes and damned denizens in eternal suffering. But it doesn't follow the guidelines of horror in fiction.

First and foremost, when you are writing horror in Hollywood, its all about tight frames, closeup shots, and trying to trigger claustrophobia. In a way, horror IS claustrophobia. Take for example Jurassic Park. In the first part of the film, Dr. Grant and his team meet friendly dinosaurs, and its mostly in wide open spaces with clear sightlines. Think of the huge long boi they meet while in a jeep: its on a grassy plain and you can see for miles. The human brain interprets this as a safe place because you can see exits and there's lots of them. When the film turns to horror later on, its ALL about feeling trapped. For example, the two kids in the jeep with a huge Rezan lurking outside. Or two kids trapped in a tiny kitchen with raptors coming in. Or at the end with everyone trapped under a dinosaur skeleton and raptors closing in.

Torghast is all wide open raid-style rooms with clear sightlines for miles. You can clearly see what's ahead. Torghast shouldn't *feel* like that. It should feature resticted areas, closed spaces, a sense of feeling trapped. Something like Waycrest Manor works in this regard. Instead, Torghast mostly feels like the wide open world in the early scenes of Jurassic Park. It doesn't trigger claustrophobia. You don't feel scared.

Secondly, you want to create the feeling of the unknown. Misty areas, with deep think fog, maybe only a pair of eyes. Not being able to clearly see your enemy also generates fear. But again, the rooms are actually too bright, well lit, with clear sight lines and areas to escape. It fails to generate the sense of horror it needs without mystery.

Overall it feels like they designed a cheap raid instance with no concern of asthetics.

[Shelly]

You're right. They need to redo everything to force your character into FPS perspective and make everything super claustrophobic. /s

[huth]

You're right. They need to redo everything to force your character into FPS perspective and make everything super claustrophobic. /s

No, no, no. They should change it all to Whimsyshire graphics.

Let's not forget that Kokolums is once again talking out their ass. Torghast isn't just wide-open spaces, some tilesets are actually rather crampy.

[TigTone]

No, no, no. They should change it all to Whimsyshire graphics.

Let's not forget that Kokolums is once again talking out their ass. Torghast isn't just wide-open spaces, some tilesets are actually rather crampy.

No, it’s obvious they just go the route of Secret Cow level.
True terror comes from the Cow Queen and King

[Vakir]

That's usually true by design, but what about notions that invoke open sightlines to create a sense of horror? The most obvious descendant that Torghast's aesthetic and indeed the entire Icecrown-inspired "kit" is drawing off of is the macro-level zombie subgenre. By creating a wide open space that is filled with an incredible number of enemies that are actually dangerous in gameplay, our perception of feeling small comes out and makes us feel outnumbered and overwhelmed.

Even in Jurassic Park, there's examples like the "thriller" adjacency of the T-Rex chase, even if there's no official distinction between thrillers and horror (beyond, I guess, one is treated like shit by snooty critics and the other isn't). It's open and not claustrophobic at all, other than the mirror shot.

That's ignoring there's plenty of cramped space in Torghast with many more cell block variations to check on, but already you can see there being plenty of concern. This is also, in part, the natural limitations of its genre. You can't create the kind of atmospheric horror scenarios you see in the best games out there because by nature WoW is aiming to be a game that emboldens players through progressive upgrades to player power. It's the same reason you usually can't invoke a sense of dread if you give players weapons that are half-decent, otherwise it turns more into an action game with horror elements.

[Guildenstern]

Be that as it may, surprising amounts of people go to great lengths to cope with things they see in game. Arachnophobes for example would often replace spider models with anything else, just not to crap their pants on a regular basis. Pathetic? You bet. But would you really expect a company consistently bending backwards for social justice types, to create something really horrifying? No, they are gonna go the most conventional, gender-neutral, spineless, vanilla-icecream route.

[Vakir]

Be that as it may, surprising amounts of people go to great lengths to cope with things they see in game. Arachnophobes for example would often replace spider models with anything else, just not to crap their pants on a regular basis. Pathetic? You bet. But would you really expect a company consistently bending backwards for social justice types, to create something really horrifying? No, they are gonna go the most conventional, gender-neutral, spineless, vanilla-icecream route.

This reasoning seems...backwards. And needlessly political. A small number of players among a community made the TOS-violating independent decision to replace models, so this extends somehow to Blizzard...? If anything there's been more spiders lately, a jump scare involving one in Drustvar.

At the end of the day, it's a T-rated game and always has been. Certain things have been definitely been tamer (like the Upside-down Sinners vs. new content of the now), but you still have people being used as living training dummies, impaled and hanging corpses in Horrific Visions.

You can also have T-rated horror and make it pretty affecting, albeit don't get me wrong, I don't trust their ability to do so. Blizzard lacks subtlety and always has. But if there's an aesthetic failure to invoke horror, it's not going to be due to fear of offending. Something doesn't need to be Cannibal Holocaust to work and if anything, less is often more.

[Zeons]

Be that as it may, surprising amounts of people go to great lengths to cope with things they see in game. Arachnophobes for example would often replace spider models with anything else, just not to crap their pants on a regular basis. Pathetic? You bet. But would you really expect a company consistently bending backwards for social justice types, to create something really horrifying? No, they are gonna go the most conventional, gender-neutral, spineless, vanilla-icecream route.

Anti-SJW gamer trope again. So bland and boring.

[Yarathir]

Anti-SJW gamer trope again. So bland and boring.

I don't know. I'd say logic is pretty rare nowadays.

[Dicellol]

Today I learned that Torghast needs to copy Jurrasic Park's horror aesthetic.

[Doffen]

Wait, Jurassic Park is a horror film?

I think Torghast is a bit dull myself aesthetically speaking, but it's part of the death theme so there we go.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Today I learned that Torghast needs to copy Jurrasic Park's horror aesthetic.

.....Why though?

I completely and wholeheartedly agree. Not sure if the first few posts are just trying to be funny or genuinely disagree with you but I think you a very correct. If the idea was to create a tower of horrors, then that failed badly.

Or they see through the bullshit and Torghast really isn't bad.

[Trumpcat]

it's almost as if they did not intend to design a horror experience but a spacious dungeon with undead aesthetics for a T rated game. Hmmmm.

[pfbe]

Torghast builds on the notions of torture and sin and tries to emote a horror vibe with spikes and damned denizens in eternal suffering. But it doesn't follow the guidelines of horror in fiction.

Because that's not all it is or is trying to be. And one of the things it is trying to be is a world of warcraft instance with aesthetics evocative of previous scourge architecture (ICC). And a place that is bigger on the inside than on the outside. And an ever shifting, multi-dimensional labyrinth. I'd rather have even bigger levels, à la Blame!, if you know what I mean.

[Unholyground]

Has the same style as the Lich King and ICC so I dig it.

[LordVargK]

WoW HAS to have wide open spaces. Did you ever try multidotting in Waycrest Manor? It's horrible, nameplates are all over the place. Sure, if you play a class, that does ignore having a specific target for it's abilites (most melee classes for example) then you will be fine. But every class, that relies on acually targeting the right thing suffers heavily from being confined in a small space.
Claustrophobia is the most annoying shit in WoW.

As for Aesthetics: Torghast is somewhat procedurally generated, meaning that it will never will be as polished as handcrafted zones.

[DemonDays]

Dunno about the horror aspect.

But testers are already reporting that Torghast is losing its sheen and we're only in Alpha.

I've already been to ICC. Why am I going there again?

[Rune B]

I actually agree with this criticism. And I wish Torghast would be more like Diablo rifts in this sense - utilize every damned art asset in the game.

[HitRefresh]

Tight spaces in WoW suck. The camera isn't meant to work with it.

[Tetley]

From what I have seen so far, I like that it resembles ICC.