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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    The concept wasn’t shot down. It could still work very well.

    I’m not underestimating anything. I know it’s not easy to implement and that’s why I didn’t want to go into specifics. I never said it was easy to implement but people somehow just assume that and the put their words into my mouth. I made the mistake of mentioning a “Silence effect” as an example which was a huge mistake because some people cannot look past that. I know now not to mention any specific examples unless I’m 100% that they will work. Otherwise people will never let it go. I will not do that again.

    But we should still be allowed to have a completely casual talk about concepts as a holistic idea without being prosecuted. A concept doesn’t have to be outlined to the smallest detail.
    It's just your concept isn't productive. Every once and a while everyone has a truly terrible idea. My advice is to not take it personally.

    Right now people are talking specifics rather then what could of been.
    Last edited by Tident; 2020-02-27 at 09:23 PM.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    One presumes if he's doing that content, he's not a returning player with 399 ilvl. I have 2 Corrupted items, the rest of my gear cannot handle the extra damage I take from them, it's fucking stupid. "Hey, here's some gear that's an upgrade, but you can't use it until you have better gear, but better gear is just going to keep doing this shit until you get better gear".
    You do know you can cleanse the corruptions, yeah?

  3. #163
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rinaul View Post
    You do know you can cleanse the corruptions, yeah?
    At the time of writing, no, but after a lot of conflicting advice over whether or not it was the right thing to do, I actually did. And it did help.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Tident View Post
    It's just your concept isn't productive. Every once and a while everyone has a truly terrible idea. My advice is to not take it personally.

    Right now people are talking specifics rather then what could of been.
    Don't worry, I don't take anything in here personal. Why would I. But if we cannot talk about future concept ideas in an open forum like this on the internet, something is really wrong. I think it is your type of mindset which is not very productive.

    To be productive, I would like to ask you, why you think the concept of basing punishment on alternative measures than purely damage taken is a terrible idea?

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Don't worry, I don't take anything in here personal. Why would I. But if we cannot talk about future concept ideas in an open forum like this on the internet, something is really wrong. I think it is your type of mindset which is not very productive.

    To be productive, I would like to ask you, why you think the concept of basing punishment on alternative measures than purely damage taken is a terrible idea?
    Because it is a universal negative effect. In the modern game outside of extreme circumstances you do not want to take unneeded damage. Every other metric has situations were it can be simply ignore.

    It's what if scenarios like this that make me opposed to lottery type systems for testing. There have been people attempting to explain to you why such musing are less productive. Being silenced means nothing to a tank unless he needs to taunt...

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Tident View Post
    Because it is a universal negative effect. In the modern game outside of extreme circumstances you do not want to take unneeded damage. Every other metric has situations were it can be simply ignore.

    It's what if scenarios like this that make me opposed to lottery type systems for testing. There have been people attempting to explain to you why such musing are less productive. Being silenced means nothing to a tank unless he needs to taunt...
    And I agreed that silence was a bad example. But that’s just one effect. There are thousands other things you could do instead of damage taken. Saying that every other metric can be ignored in some situation is a bold statement.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    And I agreed that silence was a bad example. But that’s just one effect. There are thousands other things you could do instead of damage taken. Saying that every other metric can be ignored in some situation is a bold statement.
    It is also true.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Is it just me or does the entire burden of corruption just shift to the healer in group content, especially pug content? In your average LFD, DPS just want that insane spike damage and will stand eye zones, let Things hit them, etc.
    Tank --> reduces damage taken by [Healer/DPS]
    Healer --> recovers damage taken by [Tank/DPS]
    DPS --> damages X to finish the fight before [Tank/Healer] can no longer perform their tasks

    Where the damage comes from shouldn't matter. There are ways in each category to be 'better'. Great DPS move out of avoidable damage and push high numbers, good dps move out of avoidable damage and push moderate numbers, bad dps stand in avoidable damage regardless of numbers. The source of the avoidable damage doesn't matter. So corruption or not, this doesn't change the general behavior of some DPS in LFD/LFR.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucavian View Post
    Tank --> reduces damage taken by [Healer/DPS]
    Healer --> recovers damage taken by [Tank/DPS]
    DPS --> damages X to finish the fight before [Tank/Healer] can no longer perform their tasks

    Where the damage comes from shouldn't matter. There are ways in each category to be 'better'. Great DPS move out of avoidable damage and push high numbers, good dps move out of avoidable damage and push moderate numbers, bad dps stand in avoidable damage regardless of numbers. The source of the avoidable damage doesn't matter. So corruption or not, this doesn't change the general behavior of some DPS in LFD/LFR.
    Then why shouldn't corruption penalize all of those categories instead of just one?

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Tident View Post
    It is also true.
    Well I’m not going to just blindly trust your word.

    Discussing topics, ideas and concepts in a non-toxic environment is the most productive method in a civilized world. But you don’t seem to want to participate in that, so at least do the decent thing and leave the rest of us alone. We don’t want your negativity.

  11. #171
    For reference a simple 12/12 hc with mains/alts 20 Person the corruptions traits are not insignificant and this is from a "non newb" raider point of view where some (not all) will get out of shit, this viewpoint only gets worse as you go lower in the care cup categories.

    Pug wise I would expect 18%+ of all damage.


    Total Damage Taken : 1,190,000,000
    Eye of Corruption : 96,160,000 8.1%
    Thing from Beyond : 34,640,000 2.9%

    So across a run it equates to 11.0 % of ALL damage taken is avoidable "suck it up healer, I want to pew pew" damage.
    Last edited by Salystra; 2020-02-28 at 03:39 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Equim View Post
    I really don't see anything wrong with playing what you enjoy. Be it Frost, Fire, Arcane or Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Salystra View Post
    For reference a simple 12/12 hc with mains/alts 20 Person the corruptions traits are not insignificant and this is from a "non newb" raider point of view where some (not all) will get out of shit.


    Total Damage Taken : 1,190,000,000
    Eye of Corruption : 96,160,000 8.1%
    Thing from Beyond : 34,640,000 2.9%

    So across a run it equates to 11.0 % of ALL damage taken is avoidable "suck it up healer, I want to pew pew" damage.
    I am kinda surprised people stack enough corruption to trigger thin from beyond in raids.

  13. #173
    Pit Lord Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro9ue View Post
    Then why shouldn't corruption penalize all of those categories instead of just one?
    Probably because it's the easiest and quickest way to inform players that they're doing something wrong. It's incredibly noticeable provided you're paying attention and doesn't necessarily require you to be in combat for an extended amount of time with your group or intense scrutinizing of your floating damage numbers to identify. It's clear to me that Blizzard wants at least some things in the game to be very readable in order for the players to be able to understand it at a glance. If they did something like making dps do less damage when they stood in stuff, the only indicator that something was wrong wouldn't be very apparent until you've been in combat for an absurd amount of time. On the other hand, if you're taking damage-or for that matter if everyone is taking damage-that is very obvious what's going wrong.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Salystra View Post
    For reference a simple 12/12 hc with mains/alts 20 Person the corruptions traits are not insignificant and this is from a "non newb" raider point of view where some (not all) will get out of shit, this viewpoint only gets worse as you go lower in the care cup categories.

    Pug wise I would expect 18%+ of all damage.


    Total Damage Taken : 1,190,000,000
    Eye of Corruption : 96,160,000 8.1%
    Thing from Beyond : 34,640,000 2.9%

    So across a run it equates to 11.0 % of ALL damage taken is avoidable "suck it up healer, I want to pew pew" damage.
    I can only use myself as a sample size but it seems like your dps aren't even trying to avoid it, since it's only Heroic it's hard to die this late in the tier anyway.
    For sake of comparison, I run between 50-60 corruption and on Mythic Maut I took 576,200 damage between Eye stalk and Thing from Beyond (I didn't feign one and it hit me for 140,000 damage, and my health pool in raid is around 560k. A nice tickle, not actually life threatening or overly stressful for decent healers).

    That equated to 4.34% of the damage I took on that fight. That corruption gives me (on sim) around 11,000dps. Nice trade off if you ask me, considering the boss died that much faster and the other 95.64% of the damage I couldn't avoid, didn't happen.
    (at that napkin math, my corruption allowed me to do an additional 7mil damage on a single raid boss over the course of 5:42. Go me!)

    I also ran Lucid Dreams minor to offset the corruption damage, which worked considering I got a rank 5 99% Pink healing parse as dps pulling 16,805hps.
    My Lucid Dreams minor alone healed for 884,000.

    But hey, screw healers amirite? /s

    I think the take away is, some people view Corruption as this evil burden of a mechanic, and then there are those of us who can and do play around it in an effort to balance risk/reward.
    I think you'll find good dps appreciate the sentiment "If I'm dead, I can't parse. Better keep myself alive at all costs!"
    Last edited by DazManianDevil; 2020-02-28 at 10:20 PM. Reason: Added napkin math for lulz
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    As if the horde faction imbalance could be worse now we have floofy foxes
    Quote Originally Posted by Dossou View Post
    and he's got a fat ass
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    This thread is a nice reminder that Blizzard can do something nice and still get absolutely shit on for it.

  15. #175
    I read threads like this and I keep hearing this voice in my head mimicking healers saying “I’m not healing dumb dps for running high corruption and standing in shit because I’m too busy healing myself running high corruption while standing in shit!”

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackrunner01 View Post
    How are those +7's coming along?
    Did some 15s/16s today as Guardian

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by DazManianDevil View Post
    I can only use myself as a sample size but it seems like your dps aren't even trying to avoid it, since it's only Heroic it's hard to die this late in the tier anyway.
    Possibly but you could also argue they are more likely to also move out of it than a pug raid with lower tier heroes which lets face it will pay 0 attention to it than mythic raiders who are raiding heroic.

    You cannot look at the corruption damage on a personal level except for the fact of spiking damage its overall drain on a raid level, the personal level is mostly m+ when a spike will wipe that one player out easily.

    The fact remains the DPS got omg uber damage talents so want to run them all whereas healers got +secondary stats or +cd reduction and that's it, this doesn't exactly strike me as even playing field and does mean a healer has to pump harder to keep a raid alive at the lower brackets due to pew pew stand in fire.
    Quote Originally Posted by Equim View Post
    I really don't see anything wrong with playing what you enjoy. Be it Frost, Fire, Arcane or Hello Kitty Island Adventure.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Karl View Post
    I am kinda surprised people stack enough corruption to trigger thin from beyond in raids.
    We had a healer die from thing from beyond on our mythic Raden progression. Maybe this thread should be named "corruption aka healers screwing themselves". Apparently overstacking corruptions isn't just a trait of those pesky dps players.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    And what is your point? Healers have to heal? If you can't handle low mythic+ why are you wasting peoples time? Bads will be bad and they will take unavoidable damage. That is no different to any other time whether they have corruption or not. Getting angry about it will not change it.
    Cool story bro. I've been clearing 15s since the system was introduced.
    The difference is that I know there are people other than me who play the game.
    Again, trying REAL hard to be cool, aren't you.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by einaschern View Post
    Cool story bro. I've been clearing 15s since the system was introduced.
    The difference is that I know there are people other than me who play the game.
    Again, trying REAL hard to be cool, aren't you.
    The ultimate cliche of cool right here.
    1. Insult the other person
    2. Tell everyone how great you are
    3. Tell everyone how you feel for the common folk
    4. Deflect insecurities into the other person.

    Good job buddy. You added nothing to the conversation, made sure everyone new how cool you were and missed the point entirely. If you weren't too busy trying to be so "cool" in a place where no one cares you might have actually read the thread.

    Nice try little buddy but no one cares how cool you think you are because noone is paying you any attention.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

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