your wishes for subtlety rogues in shadow lands.

[keyone01]

I wish for Mop/Wod version of sub, but don't see it with devs wasting resources for 2 melee survival revamps.
Realistic wish is to hope that sub spec will not get any attention of the devs past tuning and in process can actually be played, not butchered for entire expansion due to blizzard incopetence (zul mythic).

[Naiattavain]

I wish for Mop/Wod version of sub, but don't see it with devs wasting resources for 2 melee survival revamps.
Realistic wish is to hope that sub spec will not get any attention of the devs past tuning and in process can actually be played, not butchered for entire expansion due to blizzard incopetence (zul mythic).

agreed. its most likely getting fixed.

[shoegazing]

I've played a rogue for 15 years, in pvp and pve ( the limited times it's been viable in pve ). Rogues don't need 3 dps specs, but a tank or other unique spec would be welcome. Just because some of us aren't into sub doesn't mean we haven't played it or can't play it. I'd just rather have a tank spec. Done.

The funniest part is the part where you think the opinions of players who love Subtlety don't matter and instead it should become a tank spec to satisfy those who don't even play the spec, lmao. That's just hilarious.

[Maslenka]

The funniest part is the part where you think the opinions of players who love Subtlety don't matter and instead it should become a tank spec to satisfy those who don't even play the spec, lmao. That's just hilarious.

The funniest thing is where you think your opinion should be considered with higher priority than others because of made up reasons. That's just hilarious.

As long as 10 people whould love to see broken spec replaced by support role while 2 would like to see it fixed, I as a dev would pick the first option. And vice versa (numbers are made up)

[Dastreus]

I want Sub rogue to actually be its class fantasy. A rogue infused with shadow power. As it currently stands, Sub only does shadow damage with Shadow blades active. I'd like to see backstab removed and replaced with Gloomblade and have it generate 2 combo points. Shadowstrike do shadow damage and generate 3 combo points. Nightblade be a shadow dot and Eviscerate replaced with Secret Technique...and shadow damage.

This. /10char

[sjb10287]

They should just revert back to WoD sub rogue that shit was amazing

[shoegazing]

The funniest thing is where you think your opinion should be considered with higher priority than others because of made up reasons. That's just hilarious.

As long as 10 people whould love to see broken spec replaced by support role while 2 would like to see it fixed, I as a dev would pick the first option. And vice versa (numbers are made up)

Ah yes. We should design the Subtlety Rogue for the players who DON'T play it. That's brilliant.

It's like opening up a steakhouse catered to the taste of vegetarians, lol.

[Naiattavain]

man i sure wish some one important commented on what they think should be done with subtlety. the community wants to roll back to what was offered in wod.

[keyone01]

As long as 10 people whould love to see broken spec replaced by support role while 2 would like to see it fixed, I as a dev would pick the first option. And vice versa (numbers are made up)

Yeah, that's what happened to survival and look how great it turned out!
Plot twist: from those 10 people only 0.1 actually play it and you pissed off 2 people, great move right here.

[Craaazyyy]

revert back to wrath/cata/mop design

[Nathasil]

I have two options for what i wish they would turn Sub into:
A) An actual Ninja, wielding a one-handed-Katana with both hands. That - without any other changes - would make the spec so incredibly cool that people would play it, even if it was the most shit-sucking, underperforming dumpster-fire of a spec ever.

B) Remove it and make Shadow-Dance a Talent option for Assassination. Sub has NOTHING left except Shadow Dance and Assassination would actually be kind of cool with a short-CD to quicken up its horribly slow gameplay.

I don't think any of that will happen, though. What i do actually EXPECT to happen is:
- They will make Sub the OP goto-spec in 9.0
- Sub will overperform in the first raid/Dungeons/solo-BS-content
- Sub will get nerfed before 9.1 is even life
- Sub will remain shit for the rest of Shadowlands

[Kithelle]

I want Sub rogue to actually be its class fantasy. A rogue infused with shadow power. As it currently stands, Sub only does shadow damage with Shadow blades active. I'd like to see backstab removed and replaced with Gloomblade and have it generate 2 combo points. Shadowstrike do shadow damage and generate 3 combo points. Nightblade be a shadow dot and Eviscerate replaced with Secret Technique...and shadow damage.

Yeah, me too...I'd kinda like to see subtlety to akin to something more like Rift's Nightblade soul, change the fire damage stuff with nature damage stuff which is more in line with WoW's Rogue and I think it could make a interesting spec.

[Kyux]

I want Sub rogue to actually be its class fantasy. A rogue infused with shadow power. As it currently stands, Sub only does shadow damage with Shadow blades active. I'd like to see backstab removed and replaced with Gloomblade and have it generate 2 combo points. Shadowstrike do shadow damage and generate 3 combo points. Nightblade be a shadow dot and Eviscerate replaced with Secret Technique...and shadow damage.

Or, if Blizzard actually wanted some QoL changes. Make Sub a ranged spec, which they should have done when Survival became melee. Generator is Shuriken throw, finishers can still be Nightblade and Deadly Throw. Then turn Shadow Dance into an actual "dance". My idea would be the Sub rogue spawns shadow clones of himself that mimic his attacks. When shadow dance gets used the rogue jumps from clone to clone, and every time he jumps that clone then shadow strikes his target and the rogue gains a stacking damage buff.

This could be set up with a restriction like, every clone the rogue has reduces his max hp by 10-15% or something. That way there can be a delicate "dance" between the number of clones you have up and how much damage you can put out for each shadow dance. Too many clones and the boss could one shot you, not enough and you dont do a whole lot of damage during the dance.

This ^^ is actually a really cool idea. Simple but new, interesting mechanic that can be played safely for novices, or can require some tactical decision-making for min-maxers. I would love this.

Shuriken throw for the generator though? I feel that fantasy-wise it's kinda weak. Maybe some kind of shadow lance or dagger thing? Otherwise I would be very happy to see these changes.

Better yet would be a first row talent to make Sub ranged if players wanted. Would fit with the player agency Blizz is promoting for SL.

[Kaver]

Funny how people read 'what they want to read'.

1 - I never discounted any sub players opinion. Feel free to quote what you are referring to.
2 - The thread is asking for our personal opinion which I provided.

Perhaps you should avoid threads which ask for people's 'wishes' or opinions, since you appear to take the responses rather personally.

You’re only allowed to give your opinion if it fits Shoegazing’s agenda. Didn’t you know that?

[shoegazing]

You’re only allowed to give your opinion if it fits Shoegazing’s agenda. Didn’t you know that?

It's so very controversial that Subtlety should be designed for Subtlety players.

Perhaps you would like it that we invite every brainless BM hunter main for example to share their views on how Subtlety should be designed?

- - - Updated - - -

This ^^ is actually a really cool idea. Simple but new, interesting mechanic that can be played safely for novices, or can require some tactical decision-making for min-maxers. I would love this.

Shuriken throw for the generator though? I feel that fantasy-wise it's kinda weak. Maybe some kind of shadow lance or dagger thing? Otherwise I would be very happy to see these changes.

Better yet would be a first row talent to make Sub ranged if players wanted. Would fit with the player agency Blizz is promoting for SL.

I absolutely do not want any garbage like this.

I want my damn Rogue back.

Not stupid, zany new mechanics. Traditional Subtlety Rogue gameplay.

[Kyux]

I absolutely do not want any garbage like this.

I want my damn Rogue back.

Not stupid, zany new mechanics. Traditional Subtlety Rogue gameplay.

Which is what? If sub has changed so much as you say, what version do you want back? What is "subtlety" to you?

[shoegazing]

Which is what? If sub has changed so much as you say, what version do you want back? What is "subtlety" to you?

Control, Burst, and traditional classwide Rogue tools

Gouge
Bleeds
Poisons
Backstab w/ Positional Requirement
Slice and Dice + Premeditation
Strong Find Weakness for big burst windows via Shadow Dance (no charges, no cooldown reduction, 1min CD) and openers from Stealth

A spec that falls back on the traditional Rogue class rotation and utility when Shadow Dance is on cooldown. Where Shadow Dance is the most exciting cooldown in the game, like it was before Legion, rather than the entire basis of the rotation. A spec that is first and foremost a Rogue, which is then further specialized in Stealth/Control/Burst by the Subtlety spec, NOT a completely new and separate class that is based on melee shadow magic fantasy or any other zany new concept which is a radical departure from what my character has been since since I created it in 2005.

[Krawu]

Sub should just be removed. Replace it with a "bard" spec, which would be a healer and support role. If Blizzard isn't going to make a proper bard class on its own, having it be a rogue spec is the next best option. They really should do something with all the 3x dps spec classes to give them some more options anyways. Mage and hunter also need one of their specs pruned and turned into another role.

Infracted.

How is that an infractable post? It's just an opinion, even if not a popular one.

I actually think this isn't a bad idea in essence, but I'd implement it via a 4th spec for all non-druid classes. Too many people are too attached to each spec (though Blizz did some serious reimagining with Demo Locks and Blood DKs before)

For Rogues I thought a tanking would would be more fitting, Bards need their own set of completely new mechanics, maybe Blizz could steal from Monster Hunter's hunting horn gameplay. If there was a pure support class I'd switch to that in a heartbeat.

What'd also be cool was if there was an intermediate-range rogue spec, meaning they wouldn't have the range of a hunter but also not be 100% effective in melee range, meaning a spec based on throwing weapons, flint lock pistols or whips (Harrison Jones woooo!)

I'll leave the lore considerations to others since to me personally gameplay is much more important.

[qwe]

Call me crazy but i found 7.2.5 sub (Tomb of Sargeras patch) really fun and satisfying to play, especially with legendary shoulders and the aoe trinket from Sisters of the Moon.

[bozoben]

Zero Fall Damage.