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  1. #1

    your wishes for subtlety rogues in shadow lands.

    hi guys thought this would be a thread needed because subtlety doesn't have rep. what are your guises wishes for subtlety rogues in shadow lands. right now the class spec is in shambles. applying the use for it is unrealistically forced upon the community. we need to be thought of better and have a better deployment. im sure there are subtlety fans out there they think the spec should be done right because im sure they would want to subscribe to the game again. so please share with us your wishes if you believe in the positive power of playing video games. rogue has always been the funnest class to play. one that you feel excited to play.ill name some specs that share our damage.


    Demon hunters-this is a clone class of the experience offered of what subtlety has to offer.
    monks-basically the same class as rogue
    hunters-hunters have access to range abilities very overpowered counter for rogue
    warriors- these guys have always been king of melee but subtlety should be right under warrior performance.


    these classes are basically duplicate experiences of what subtlety has to offer the player. rogues-only thing needed is a change to bolster the performance of subtlety so that it matches the rest of the game. subtlety has a break in the experience offered.

    Let me be the first to say that the class experience for the last two expansions have been intolerant. i mean blizzard just manufactures this crap now expecting it to sell with-out given thought of creativity in the said product.. i said what was needed to say. need i say more.
    Last edited by Naiattavain; 2020-01-30 at 01:23 PM.
    “Choose a job you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life” “Logic will get you from A to Z; Imagination will get you everywhere.”

  2. #2
    just gonna throw this out as an idea:

    what if shadowblades goes away, and instead we get a CD that enhances your next X dances. make it a talent row:

    1st option: higher crit chance+dmg on the next 2 dances (3 with Enveloping Shadows).
    2nd option: instant reset on your dance charges.
    3rd option: damage done during the next 2 dances (3 with Enveloping Shadows) cleaves on X enemies.

    and, if we lose the Azerite effect for Nightblade to buff the next Eviscerate, then Nightblade will need some love.
    a rather weak dot with a fixed dmg+ as a finisher feels lackluster.

    since outlaw has RtB, give us (or all rogues, for that matter) Slice and Dice.
    change it to give haste for energy regeneration.
    that way, you wouldn't be out if energy after 4 GCDs.

  3. #3
    yea slice and dice baseline is a must.

    - - - Updated - - -

    to be honest any love in the version to subtlety is good.

    right now subtlety dies too often and there is no trade out for the increased number of deaths.

    thanks for replying i was so depressed.
    “Choose a job you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life” “Logic will get you from A to Z; Imagination will get you everywhere.”

  4. #4
    1min CD Shadow Dance (no charges, no CDR)
    Find Weakness and CC toolkit tuned around ^
    Gouge, SnD, Premed, Bleeds, Poisons, Shiv, BASIC ROGUE THINGS THAT WE HAVE HAD FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS
    Symbols of Death GONE, Shadowstrike GONE, Shadow Blades GONE, etc -- Every trace of Legion filth deleted
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

    ― Douglas Adams

  5. #5
    I like the current shadow theme of Sub, but I'm not a big fan of the playstyle especially after they removed its niche. It's the king of no traits. For PvE I would mainly like Sub to be more versatile. Getting some more plain AOE and Cleave would be nice. I think it should mainly be focused on priority damage but the general AOE should still be better. I like getting Shadow Strike during Dance, but it should be redesigned so it makes sense to use it during AOE.

  6. #6
    Roll it back to MoP count?
    Comes a time when we all gotta die...even kings.

  7. #7
    Roll it back to MoP count? mists or WOD would be good to see. yea its dead jim..
    Last edited by Naiattavain; 2020-02-02 at 02:30 PM.
    “Choose a job you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life” “Logic will get you from A to Z; Imagination will get you everywhere.”

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Proper Ninja View Post
    yea slice and dice baseline is a must.

    - - - Updated - - -

    to be honest any love in the version to subtlety is good.

    right now subtlety dies too often and there is no trade out for the increased number of deaths.

    thanks for replying i was so depressed.
    SnD was baked in to the specs via passive haste boosts and alacrity.
    I doubt the unpruning of that ability is going to be pretty.

    If they just want to "fix" sub, roll it back to MoP or WoD.

    I'd personally like to see them pull off a proper spec like they wanted to in Legion.

    I'd like to see Shadowdance actually do something other than press button, use other abilities. It's boring the way it is. But I really cant think of a better gameplay loop, the danger is it's already too close to a generic damage window spec. I also think assassination already fills that niche in a way so it's like making players pick between the 2 for similar playstyle. I think a proc/build spend playstyle may work, kind of like ele shaman.

    Maybe shiv on a proc (and c/d) that puts find weakness up on the target. Maybe let Sub be the stack expose armor build. When a sufficient amount of "maelstrom" is built up, it let's you use a big ST shuriken storm (could be aoe too).
    Just spit balling. The easy answer is revert it, the problem is youd be reverting a spec to a time before we got better builds with more synergy. Sub would just be the "boomer" build to give it a meme name.

  9. #9
    Dreadlord Mask's Avatar
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    Sub should just be removed. Replace it with a "bard" spec, which would be a healer and support role. If Blizzard isn't going to make a proper bard class on its own, having it be a rogue spec is the next best option. They really should do something with all the 3x dps spec classes to give them some more options anyways. Mage and hunter also need one of their specs pruned and turned into another role.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2020-02-07 at 03:26 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mask View Post
    Sub should just be removed. Replace it with a "bard" spec, which would be a healer and support role. If Blizzard isn't going to make a proper bard class on its own, having it be a rogue spec is the next best option. They really should do something with all the 3x dps spec classes to give them some more options anyways. Mage and hunter also need one of their specs pruned and turned into another role.
    As a Subtlety Rogue main of 15 years, that's going to be a fuck no from me.

    Stick to giving feedback about things you actually play extensively and keep your half baked jokes to yourself.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

    ― Douglas Adams

  11. #11
    I want Sub rogue to actually be its class fantasy. A rogue infused with shadow power. As it currently stands, Sub only does shadow damage with Shadow blades active. I'd like to see backstab removed and replaced with Gloomblade and have it generate 2 combo points. Shadowstrike do shadow damage and generate 3 combo points. Nightblade be a shadow dot and Eviscerate replaced with Secret Technique...and shadow damage.

    Or, if Blizzard actually wanted some QoL changes. Make Sub a ranged spec, which they should have done when Survival became melee. Generator is Shuriken throw, finishers can still be Nightblade and Deadly Throw. Then turn Shadow Dance into an actual "dance". My idea would be the Sub rogue spawns shadow clones of himself that mimic his attacks. When shadow dance gets used the rogue jumps from clone to clone, and every time he jumps that clone then shadow strikes his target and the rogue gains a stacking damage buff.

    This could be set up with a restriction like, every clone the rogue has reduces his max hp by 10-15% or something. That way there can be a delicate "dance" between the number of clones you have up and how much damage you can put out for each shadow dance. Too many clones and the boss could one shot you, not enough and you dont do a whole lot of damage during the dance.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by lyphe View Post
    Ez. Get rid of sub and replace it with a tank spec.
    Oh wow yet another person who doesn't play Subtlety has an opinion about it

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    I want Sub rogue to actually be its class fantasy.
    Subtlety already had a strong class fantasy before Legion, let's go back to that and abandon this failed nu-Rogue shit.
    Subtlety Rogue was an amazing, incredible, unique, and fun spec prior to Legion and BfA

    “All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”

    ― Douglas Adams

  13. #13
    wod subtlety had a really strong impact on the game back then. it was really neat to have and experience.
    “Choose a job you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life” “Logic will get you from A to Z; Imagination will get you everywhere.”

  14. #14
    I hate speculating, every xpac is the same thing and in the end we're at Blizzards mercy. And sub was my favorite spec for a long time

  15. #15
    Remove sub and replace it with something else.

  16. #16
    sub is getting rolled back and fixed..
    “Choose a job you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life” “Logic will get you from A to Z; Imagination will get you everywhere.”

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mask View Post
    Sub should just be removed. Replace it with a "bard" spec, which would be a healer and support role. If Blizzard isn't going to make a proper bard class on its own, having it be a rogue spec is the next best option. They really should do something with all the 3x dps spec classes to give them some more options anyways. Mage and hunter also need one of their specs pruned and turned into another role.

    Infracted.
    I agree, except I'd make Outlaw into Bard instead of Sub.

  18. #18
    Make Backstab only usable from behind targets again, bring back Hemo, Gouge, Slice and Dice, and Preparation, replace Nightblade and Shadowstrike with Rupture and Ambush, bring back 1 min cooldown Shadow Dance with no charges and no cooldown reduction, and remove Symbols of Death.

    Basically bring back MoP/WoD Sub, that spec was perfect as it was lmao

  19. #19
    Honestly, just a restoration of MoP / WoD sub. The BFA iteration is really clunky (in my opinion).

  20. #20
    Total restoration of WoD sub rogue, especially during HFC. Felt perfect, way, way better than this nonsense we had in legion or what we have now.

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