Horde Catapults too OP

[Mehrunes]

Well, according to you, the whole Horde is traitors since Sylvanas did not die or chose another Warchief so they should have stay loyal TO THE END. Bunch of traitors those Hordies! Loyalty is earn, not given though an oath. You have to earn it.

Sylvanas left. Which Warchiefs are free to do as evidenced by the earlier example of Thrall. And a Warchief choosing their successor has never been a requirement. So you're: 1. wrong, 2. fallacious and 3. grasping at straws. Then again you don't even have a basis for an argument here since of the aforementioned wrongness (and the weird decision to argue against what words mean that this topic stems from), so I guess you don't have other options here.

Also, @Daemos daemonium already went in detail in this thread that Baine et all initially followed Sylvanas. So would you look at that, she had earned their loyalty. So, since they changed their views only later on, what word would describe them, hmmm? Not that it's a topic limited solely to loyalty, but whatever.

[Specialka]

Sylvanas left. Which Warchiefs are free to do as evidenced by earlier example of Thrall. And a Warchief choosing their successor has never been a requirement. So you're: 1. wrong, 2. fallacious and 3. grasping at straws. Then again you don't even have a basis for an argument here since of the aforementioned wrongness (and the weird decision to argue against what words mean that this topic stems from), so I guess you don't have other options here.

Also, @Daemos daemonium already went in detail in this thread that Baine et all initially followed Sylvanas. So would you look at that, she has earned their loyalty. So, since they changed their views only later on, what word would describe them, hmmm?

And it seems ppl in the Horde are free to do as they please as well, since it is the second rebellion against a lunatic Warchief. Loyalty is earnt. Baine/Saufrang are Heroes and Sylvanas a traitor to the Horde spirit.

[Syegfryed]

One would think that they key point there was "after Varian and Worgen left but whatever makes you scramble an illusion of an argument together.

they left after they pushed him back, so? they are not there anymore, how could the night elves alone attack ashenvale let alone orgrimmar?

Which part of the Alliance not sending anything significant to Pandaria until 5.1 do you still keep not getting?

which part of pandaria being a virgin land full of resources and magic that could give him the upperhand you still keep not getting?

also, the horde didn't sent anything significant until 5.1 too hence we had the storyline/quests in krasarang wilds

No they weren't. They left after MoP.

yah, after mop, you know, when the traitors put Garry down and the horde lost the war and had to left the territories

Where, you know, Sylvanas actually won and pushed the Night Elves out of the zone.

in totally different scenarios, seizing the Legion attack, seizing the theramore destruction and using the facade of azerite

yeah lets praise it

[Logwyn]

Pretty much. Sylvanas just decided she did not need the Horde anymore and REEEEE'd away. The the Horde just went "Oh well, come in"

She could have won fair and square if she wanted to. Heck given how OP she is, she could probably take everyone there at once.

Her plot armor is thick. I think Thrall or Anduin could take her easy.

[Jastall]

it's almost like having different goals means you do things differently.

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Archimonde didn't want to destroy the tree he wanted its power for him self it has nothing to do with the legion looking like chumps and every thing to do with having different war goals.

teldrassil also isn't the size of a city and wasn't destroyed in minutes it took hours for the tree to burn and the tree it self is much larger then just the city of darnassus.

There was more than one Legion invasion, man. The Legion one was supposed to have been global. And this time, they aimed to destroy everything but couldn't manage to make a dent anywhere important. But in BfA the Horde shows up with wooden catapults and burns down the World Tree easy. It's storytelling fueled solely by plot convenience and shock value.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Nah, it has been used many times before. the whole point of the iron horde was that garrosh brought the knowlege back of siegecrafter blackfuse, who used enraged fire lementals to power machines, something he learned by working with goblin shaman, who only exist as they make deals with the elements to power their machines and their mechanical totems.

also not to mention the legion did it, literally making entire ships.m

I mean used solely for catapults and shown in a story sense as the guy is trying to be hyper literal.

[Darkeon]

Alliance spaceship was busy dealing with the horde catapults, off-screen.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There was more than one Legion invasion, man. The Legion one was supposed to have been global. And this time, they aimed to destroy everything but couldn't manage to make a dent anywhere important. But in BfA the Horde shows up with wooden catapults and burns down the World Tree easy. It's storytelling fueled solely by plot convenience and shock value.

The legion has had army's standing against them during every invasion where the night elfs had sent there's off and didn't get reinforcements fighting with a skeleton crew, these are not even close to the same thing.

even in legion they took less important/less defended places like the monk peaks.

[Niwes]

Catapults can't set fire to magic trees teldrassil was an inside job

exactly. because world trees do not deform at under 1500 degrees.

[Jastall]

The legion has had army's standing against them during every invasion where the night elfs had sent there's off and didn't get reinforcements fighting with a skeleton crew, these are not even close to the same thing.

even in legion they took less important/less defended places like the monk peaks.

Who says anything about armies? They have spaceships. They can rain things made of fire from the sky. The Night Elves have bows. Teldrassil being so vulnerable to fire should have made it a stupid easy target for them.

[KrayZ33]

There was more than one Legion invasion, man. The Legion one was supposed to have been global. And this time, they aimed to destroy everything but couldn't manage to make a dent anywhere important. But in BfA the Horde shows up with wooden catapults and burns down the World Tree easy. It's storytelling fueled solely by plot convenience and shock value.

Isn't by now, everything and every warmachine basically infused with azerite-juice?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Who says anything about armies? They have spaceships. They can rain things made of fire from the sky. The Night Elves have bows. Teldrassil being so vulnerable to fire should have made it a stupid easy target for them.

the legion had more important front's to fight on then a useless tree filled with civ's this is something we see all though out legion they go for threats and points of use not just random killings for no reason.

[Jastall]

the legion had more important front's to fight on then a useless tree filled with civ's this is something we see all though out legion they go for threats and points of use not just random killings for no reason.

More important? They rain down Infernals by the hundreds, what's a couple more to raze an entire city and its garrison easily. In the pre-patch event they attacked random places like Westfall all the time, but the capital city of the race that stopped their previous invasion is no bueno? Sure, whatever.

The salient point is that the tree was only vulnerable when Blizzard felt like it, IE when it was time for the Horde/Sylvanas to burn it to show how eeeeevil they are. It's not a question of sense or logic.

[FelPlague]

More important? They rain down Infernals by the hundreds, what's a couple more to raze an entire city and its garrison easily. In the pre-patch event they attacked random places like Westfall all the time, but the capital city of the race that stopped their previous invasion is no bueno? Sure, whatever.

The salient point is that the tree was only vulnerable when Blizzard felt like it, IE when it was time for the Horde/Sylvanas to burn it to show how eeeeevil they are. It's not a question of sense or logic.

Lore wise the invasions were happening EVERYWHERE.
but they only show it in 2 zones just for ease of acsess.

we hear this form the kultirans having dealt with, same with the zandalari. also jaina was fighting demons.
also pandaria says they were fighting demons, even as a monk you get there just as they attack.

[Darth-Piekus]

I am not arguing Archimonde's goals. I am saying that Archimonde had the size and the weapons to actually torch a tree supported by actual Fel Magic the size of the Tree. The Horde Catapults with the pebble on the other hand did something that is impossible. No amount of magic is able to make a Catapult of 750m Maximum Range suddenly have the Range of an S-400 that can reach 400KM and the destructive power of an Archimonde Sized Fel Fire. No Mage on Azeroth from the two main factions is on par with Archimonde and even then Magic has limits.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

More important? They rain down Infernals by the hundreds, what's a couple more to raze an entire city and its garrison easily. In the pre-patch event they attacked random places like Westfall all the time, but the capital city of the race that stopped their previous invasion is no bueno? Sure, whatever.

The salient point is that the tree was only vulnerable when Blizzard felt like it, IE when it was time for the Horde/Sylvanas to burn it to show how eeeeevil they are. It's not a question of sense or logic.

go watch the warcraft3 cinematic infernal fire doesn't spread alot its self contained. they would have to send a rather decent force to take the tree with people like malfirion around and they have no reason to when they could put those resources to more important targets.

hell if you want look for reasons for the horde not to have made it to the tree you should site the wild gods who totally should have shown up to stop the horde not the legion focusing on other targets.

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I am not arguing Archimonde's goals. I am saying that Archimonde had the size and the weapons to actually torch a tree supported by actual Fel Magic the size of the Tree. The Horde Catapults with the pebble on the other hand did something that is impossible. No amount of magic is able to make a Catapult of 750m Maximum Range suddenly have the Range of an S-400 that can reach 400KM and the destructive power of an Archimonde Sized Fel Fire. No Mage on Azeroth from the two main factions is on par with Archimonde and even then Magic has limits.

and what exactly are you basing any of this on? given all the insane things magic is used for making fire spread or reach a bit further is incredibly tame.

[Mehrunes]

And it seems ppl in the Horde are free to do as they please as well, since it is the second rebellion against a lunatic Warchief. Loyalty is earnt. Baine/Saufrang are Heroes and Sylvanas a traitor to the Horde spirit.

Yes, people have a capacity for treason. The biggest discovery of the year right here. But them having said capacity isn't an argument against them being traitors. Trying to invoke some mysterious and utterly meaningless "Horde spirit" is even less of an argument. Especially after your glorious Saurfang himself called Sylvanas the true heiress of Horde's legacy.

they left after they pushed him back, so? they are not there anymore, how could the night elves alone attack ashenvale let alone orgrimmar?

Nope. They left after stopping his advantage. The Night Elves pushed the Horde back only in their Ashenvale questline, which happens way later. But thanks for making it known you don't know what you're talking about.

which part of pandaria being a virgin land full of resources and magic that could give him the upperhand you still keep not getting?

At this point your argument is so off the rails you're not even aware of what you're trying to argue against. Vide you constantly shifting the goalposts. Which led you to arguing in favor of my own point:

also, the horde didn't sent anything significant until 5.1 too hence we had the storyline/quests in krasarang wilds

yah, after mop, you know, when the traitors put Garry down and the horde lost the war and had to left the territories

Not only are you moving the goalposts again, but the Horde being in Ashenvale doesn't mean they had any significant success there. Unless you're capable of providing evidence of such successes? Of course you're not.

in totally different scenarios, seizing the Legion attack, seizing the theramore destruction and using the facade of azerite

yeah lets praise it

Because Garrosh totally didn't seize the chaos of the Cataclysm Ah, wait, he did. And he attacked while it was still ongoing, as opposed to Sylvanas attacking only after the Legion was gone. This tangent totally didn't backfire for you.

[Ardenaso]

For the same reason they didn't give a shit about the Ebon Blade using Forsaken tactics during WotLK. Even when they took a detour to fight the Scarlet Onslaught.

They were already in league with the Ebon Blade and they hate the Scarlet Onslaught as well.

[Melsiren]

We have been over this, Teldrasill was an inside job.

Demolisher fuel does not burn hot enough to burn the bark on world trees.

I sincerely believe if Garrosh had survived the events of WoD, the destruction of Teldrassil would have still happened.

Garrosh would have just tucked in his legs, and catapulted himself into Teldrassil with Gorehowl in both hands.

And Garrosh would have chopped down Teldrasill and then used the wood to build a bridge all the way to stormwind to punch Anduin in his non-toxic-masculine face.

And if anyone tried to stop him he would scream. "GET OFF MY BIRDGE!" and kill them.

We are currently living in the worst timeline.

Just imagine if they had Trebuchets instead.

No, imagine what will happen when we finally fire the cannon in Bilge Water Harbor.

[Specialka]

Yes, people have a capacity for treason. The biggest discovery of the year right here. But them having said capacity isn't an argument against them being traitors. Trying to invoke some mysterious and utterly meaningless "Horde spirit" is even less of an argument. Especially after your glorious Saurfang himself called Sylvanas the true heiress of Horde's legacy.




Nope. They left after stopping his advantage. The Night Elves pushed the Horde back only in their Ashenvale questline, which happens way later. But thanks for making it known you don't know what you're talking about.




At this point your argument is so off the rails you're not even aware of what you're trying to argue against. Vide you constantly shifting the goalposts. Which led you to arguing in favor of my own point:





Not only are you moving the goalposts again, but the Horde being in Ashenvale doesn't mean they had any significant success there. Unless you're capable of providing evidence of such successes? Of course you're not.




Because Garrosh totally didn't seize the chaos of the Cataclysm Ah, wait, he did. And he attacked while it was still ongoing, as opposed to Sylvanas attacking only after the Legion was gone. This tangent totally didn't backfire for you.

Sylvanas is the true heiress to the bloody legacy of Blackhand Horde. You always forget the important word to fit your argument. And that Horde is the opposite of Thrall's Horde which was about honor.