Horde Catapults too OP

[Martymark]

Blame the Night Elves for crapping on the local fire spirits. The fire ate the tree in 10 seconds because the local fire spirits went bananas when requested by shammies.

[FelPlague]

And that tactic was never used before or again , oddly enough , despite the many advantages of being able to snipe the ennemy from killometers away with mere catapults, can bring to warfare.

That is just like the retarded"Holdo manoeuver" or whatever , they pulled in the abomination that is The Last Jedi .
They just fucked up and tried to correct their mistake because thinking ahead is too much for them .

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They can't even remember that the ingame distances are not the actual lore ones.

Yes, it has been used before and again. its been used many times beofre and since my dude.

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That's how "they majik'd it" should be presented, not like here, where fans assume that it was some sort of unique one-of-a-time magic enhancement by some unknown beings that we'll never hear again.

1. its not "one time magic" its literally something we have done in wow since day 1, have you never seen mages or shamans or ANY SPELLCASTING CLASS.

2. "Some unknown beings" its not some insanely unique thing, its just fucking fire magic, something we have used for 20 years in warcraft.
when a book says "The fire mage blasted the demon with his firebolt" do you flip out "WOW THEY MAJIK'D IT AWAY, THIS RANDOM UNKNOWN PERSON GUNNA CAST A FIRE SPELL?" this is wow, magic is everywhere.




"WHat sort of magic was it"
fire magic, thats why it was shaman and mages.
"Who did it" shamans and mages.
"How did it" they moved fire like they would any other spell
"What consequences of this show of power" what? not every single spell in every universe needs to have consenquences my dude.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

And that tactic was never used before or again , oddly enough , despite the many advantages of being able to snipe the ennemy from killometers away with mere catapults, can bring to warfare.

That is just like the retarded"Holdo manoeuver" or whatever , they pulled in the abomination that is The Last Jedi .
They just fucked up and tried to correct their mistake because thinking ahead is too much for them .

This is pretty much every powerful magic ever used in wow. The top brass of demons can destroy city’s by playing with sand, never used again. Wisp can explode, never used again. You can blow up planets by opening portals, never used again. You can rip people souls out and make them conduits of undeath, never used again. Black dragons can split people in two splitting personality traits, never used again.

Repeat until you get to modern day flying ships and arcane fire.

[Mehrunes]

Given the number of narrative and thematic issues with BfA in the general sense, this has the sense of being one of the pettier hills to die on. Admittedly, the whole "catapults firing across the bay to Teldrassil" is kind of silly - but in a world where magic is a daily fact of life and where the novelization of events explains that magic was used both to enhance the destructive force of the payloads and do whatever else, it's really not that Herculean of a stretch of the imagination to envision the missiles flying further, higher, and faster to a distant target.

Given the number of narrative and thematic issues with BfA (first time I'm hearing about those though), how would the admittedly silly topic of Horde's interstellar catapults (though it bears pointing out that the topic isn't actually just the catapults per se but the question of why the Horde didn't use them ever again) constitute a hill to die on?

One word: Vindicaar. But the writers have no memories.

Sure, but what people keep forgetting is that the Alliance isn't the only faction forced to forget their own superweapons because plot convenience infiltrated their minds. The Goblin gun in Azshara that was "totally going to fire by the end of expansion" has yet to do anything in its six years of existence. Sunwell is a smaller Well of Eternity (now with extra Light infusion) and the Well of Eternity could be used offensively to strike over colossal distances.

Hell, even the Blight. Now, sure, the Blight has been used a few times, but there were also times where it would have made sense yet didn't happen. The most glaring example is actually in the Battle of Lordaeron. After Jaina breached the walls and the Alliance party led by her and Anduin waltzed through into the breach, they got confronted by a Horde team led by Nathanos and Lor'themar. With more Blight. This time even with some machinery to deploy it rather than a handheld system that was used to defend the gate earlier on.

And when Anduin et all started despairing the 20th asspull to save the Alliance that day was Alleria porting in with Mekkatorque. Except they didn't port on top of the Blight team to kill them in an instant. They teleported on top of Anduin. Which didn't actually do anything to actually solve the issue the Alliance faced right then and there. It simply added more targets to get turned into soup. And yet they lived.

Then when Sylvanas deployed Blight in the throne room Jaina shielded everyone willy-nilly even though it has been long established that magic doesn't protect from the Blight either, the only exception being Dreadlord magic (though this one was maybe Blizzard trying to say that Jaina is a Dreadlord after all).

Besides, Vindicaar's strongest offensive feat was making a breach in Antorus. It does have the pretty nifty teleportation pad technology though, which would come handy in a war, but the Horde has an equivalent in telemancy now.

It's also worth mentioning that the interdimensional Naaru ships aren't invincible. Xenedar was one shot by a no-name demon the moment it stopped hiding from the Legion. And the Blood Elves infiltrated and crash landed the Exodar. With telemancy (especially given the fact that Oculeth has already been on the Vindicaar and has a penchant for setting up beacons all around himself for breakfast, lunch and dinner) the infiltration could potentially be even easier.

And that tactic was never used before or again , oddly enough , despite the many advantages of being able to snipe the ennemy from killometers away with mere catapults, can bring to warfare.

That is just like the retarded"Holdo manoeuver" or whatever , they pulled in the abomination that is The Last Jedi .
They just fucked up and tried to correct their mistake because thinking ahead is too much for them .

I can already see someone proposing the use of omega catapults the next expansion only for someone else to dismiss that proposal with "that was a one in a million type of thing because 'reasons'".

[Monster Hunter]

You forgot to mention that Alliance has a fucking demigod on their side (Malfurion)

Several demi-gods if push comes to shove.

Khadgar, magni, malfurion, the Lich king bolivar.

The hords "freinds" and allies arn't even in the same league of power as what the alliance could call on if bfa had started going badly for the alliance.

Mehrunes is trying to argue super weapons but even in the front the hord looses.

The night well is dead and gone after Legion it was shut down because it was poised

The sun well is infused with light nit arcane now, light from a naruu, allied to an alliance race, infused by velan the leader of an alliance race, and the alliance being steeped in the light as well as having the very army of the light on its side..... I wouldn't go counting the light as an effective weapon against the alliance.

And the gun is goblin tech, shitty, never fired, and its payload unless Azerite infused is likely not big enough to level even one of Stormwind districts, its comparable to the guns the Germans had in ww1 to bombard Paris. Only storming has mages to make shields.

In every catagoey the hord is the under dog military wise.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Several demi-gods if push comes to shove.

Khadgar, magni, malfurion, the Lich king bolivar.

The hords "freinds" and allies arn't even in the same league of power as what the alliance could call on if bfa had started going badly for the alliance.

Khadgar flatly says he’ll have nothing to do with the war and magni more or less does the same neither of them are alliance at this point and khadgar hasn’t been since tbc.

Bolivar clearly isn’t willing to swing for the alliance either as we know he’s been active since legion yet has done nothing for the faction war.

[Monster Hunter]

Khadgar flatly says he’ll have nothing to do with the war and magni more or less does the same neither of them are alliance at this point and khadgar hasn’t been since tbc.

Bolivar clearly isn’t willing to swing for the alliance either as we know he’s been active since legion yet has done nothing for the faction war.

Except demanding sylvan's head.

You really think when push comes to shove those guys would have Sat back and let sylvanas win? When they out right hate her?

If you think that your as delusional as hitter was thinking Britain would stay neutral when he invaded Poland.

You think magni won't defend his daughter and iron forge?

You think khadgar will let Anduin, jaina or tyralion die?
Or kelagose for that matter.

You think bolvar wouldnt have made an intervention if sylvanas looked like she was going to win, with him knowing what she was really up to?

Please... If push came to shove those guys wouldn't just sit around and watch there freinds and family die and there homes get destroyed because they had to work with the hord a few times to save the world. If anything they would have just accelerated saurfangs rebellion with there support.

[Kithelle]

1. fire that far- guided by magic, but siege weapons can fire pretty far, but so can the enemies siege weapons.
2. anything can burn, but i do find it silly how quickly that thing lit up, like if a real tree was that size, it would take hours to get fully engulfed.
3. it sitting in water has nothing to do with how well the top half burns.
4. they did, they were just basic catapults, issue is the alliance also had catapults of their own.

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how is that "Too low for them"
That is a perfectly fine explanation, we literally have spells that home in on targets no matter how quickly they jump around or dodge. ever sen a greater pyroblast travel long distance?
i mean have you watched avatar the last airbender? that genre literally lives off enhancing/operating siege weapons/machinery with the users "magic"

While I'm not laughing he does kinda have a point in there somewhere, if all it takes is some Mage and Shaman to enchant it then why not do this all the time? Is the Horde low on Mage and or Shaman? Are there only a few that know these enchants?

[Mehrunes]

What hord navy? They lost most of it at the broken shore and the forsaken New fleet was dashed on the rocks by an alliance gunship.

And the Legion generously ignored the Alliance navy because generosity is in their nature. But only selective generosity, which is why they trashed the Horde one. Never mind that nothing has ever been said about any faction even sending most of their fleet to Broken Shore, let alone losing most of it. And Genn blew a few ships before losing one of the last gunships the Alliance had. Besides, I vividly recall mentioning something about "A Good War's description" in the context of naval power prior to BfA so it's almost as if I have a source backing me while you have wishful thinking and dreams.

And what tanks? I've seen a couple of hord Azerite tanks nothing close to the alliance with tons of dwarven tanks not even needed.

The ones they use in any battleground or world PvP zone that involved siege weapons. And one Azerite war machine demolished every single Alliance siege weapon at Lordaeron (some of them with more plating on them than your average Alliance tank) and then went to town on their army (before Anduin destroyed it by smacking its gun with his sword).

We saw exactly what happens when the hord bows and arrows meet the steel of the alliance war machine at lorderon. It took. An Azerite tank and the plauge just to give them an upper hand and even then for there supposed magic power jaina alone was enough. And the alliance hadn't even engaged the void elves, light forge or gnomes by that point.... The hords military is an outdated relic and a joke. And that's how it was shown in game.

It took Alliance Blizzard instantly forgetting the balance of naval power they explained in A Good War just a few days before that for the Alliance to even successfully land in Tirisfal without the Horde navy sending them to the bottom of the sea.

And prior to Jaina's arrival they only got the upper hand against a bunch of soldiers that ranged beyond the gates despite not being ordered to (and who apologized for their rashness even after Sylvanas deployed the Blight on top of them).

As for that Azerite tank, again, it instantly trashed any and all siege weapon the Alliance had. So aside from your remarks about outdated relics and jokes being as far as from the truth as possible, it means that if not for Jaina ex machina they had no way of breaching the walls. And if not for her all they could have done afterwards was sitting on their asses and waiting for some other non-Jaina miracle. The same Jaina ex machina saved their asses from being melted by temporarily freezing the already deployed Blight.

Then they survived the second meeting with Blight deployment troops because they didn't deploy the Blight because plot convenience. And then the leaders survived the third meeting with Blight by Jaina shielding them from it despite it having been established since WotLK that the only magic that can protect one from Blight is Dreadlord "blessing".

But the funniest bit of your desperate attempt at downplaying the Horde is your "bows and arrows" (despite mentioning their chemical weapon and high tech Azerite tank yourself) bit at the start, as if the bulk of the Alliance army used MP4s.

The hord have lost 2 wars back to back. And they stood more chance under garrosh but still got ground under the alliance boots in the end.

Ah, yes, the Alliance being forced to cede half a dozen zones or so to the Horde after the war even after they teamed up with the victorious side of the Horde civil war is truly the Horde being ground under the Alliance boots. Ceding territory is a known sign of a victory. Totally not Alliance saving its face and getting a jail out of free card from the war they started yet couldn't win on their own merit and writing off the zones they lost (plus the Azshara they offered only after war ended) as acceptable losses.

Oh, wait, no, it is the latter. Because, again, the Horde dominated the war from start to finish, obliterating Alliance presence in central Kalimdor, wiping out non-human part of their most elite 7th Legion and destroying most of their fleet with krakens. While the Alliance's "biggest" victory prior to Vol'jin's rebellion was beating a garrison of Orcs at a temple in Krasarang (in a scenario that truly showcased the depths of Alliance ineptitude when it comes to war, because Tyrande, a milennia old leader of various wars still had to be schooled by Varian on the very basics despite it being Varian's first war).

You forgot to mention that Alliance has a fucking demigod on their side (Malfurion)

You mean the demigod that had to flee from Sylvanas multiple times in A Good War, deciding to fight her only when there was no other option as the Horde already reached the northern shore of Darkshore? With the only bit from the fight that we've seen prior to Saurfang ending by cutting Malfurion down in one strike being Sylvanas throwing him into a tree with an explosion?

[FelPlague]

While I'm not laughing he does kinda have a point in there somewhere, if all it takes is some Mage and Shaman to enchant it then why not do this all the time? Is the Horde low on Mage and or Shaman? Are there only a few that know these enchants?

they have done this many times...
its not an enchant its literally just guiding fire like you would for a normal spell.
and dont do it all the time cause usually they can reach what they need to shoot without problem.
Look to jaina for example who could have just... fired her ships cannons to take down the wall, but used arcane canons as to make it more devistating.

[Monster Hunter]

And the Legion generously ignored the Alliance navy because generosity is in their nature. But only selective generosity, which is why they trashed the Horde one. Never mind that nothing has ever been said about any faction even sending most of their fleet to Broken Shore, let alone losing most of it. And Genn blew a few ships before losing one of the last gunships the Alliance had. Besides, I vividly recall mentioning something about "A Good War's description" in the context of naval power prior to BfA so it's almost as if I have a source backing me while you have wishful thinking and dreams.




The ones they use in any battleground or world PvP zone that involved siege weapons. And one Azerite war machine demolished every single Alliance siege weapon at Lordaeron (some of them with more plating on them than your average Alliance tank) and then went to town on their army (before Anduin destroyed it by smacking its gun with his sword).




It took Alliance Blizzard instantly forgetting the balance of naval power they explained in A Good War just a few days before that for the Alliance to even successfully land in Tirisfal without the Horde navy sending them to the bottom of the sea.

And prior to Jaina's arrival they only got the upper hand against a bunch of soldiers that ranged beyond the gates despite not being ordered to (and who apologized for their rashness even after Sylvanas deployed the Blight on top of them).

As for that Azerite tank, again, it instantly trashed any and all siege weapon the Alliance had. So aside from your remarks about outdated relics and jokes being as far as from the truth as possible, it means that if not for Jaina ex machina they had no way of breaching the walls. And if not for her all they could have done afterwards was sitting on their asses and waiting for some other non-Jaina miracle. The same Jaina ex machina saved their asses from being melted by temporarily freezing the already deployed Blight.

Then they survived the second meeting with Blight deployment troops because they didn't deploy the Blight because plot convenience. And then the leaders survived the third meeting with Blight by Jaina shielding them from it despite it having been established since WotLK that the only magic that can protect one from Blight is Dreadlord "blessing".

But the funniest bit of your desperate attempt at downplaying the Horde is your "bows and arrows" (despite mentioning their chemical weapon and high tech Azerite tank yourself) bit at the start, as if the bulk of the Alliance army used MP4s.




Ah, yes, the Alliance being forced to cede half a dozen zones or so to the Horde after the war even after they teamed up with the victorious side of the Horde civil war is truly the Horde being ground under the Alliance boots. Ceding territory is a known sign of a victory. Totally not Alliance saving its face and getting a jail out of free card from the war they started yet couldn't win on their own merit and writing off the zones they lost (plus the Azshara they offered only after war ended) as acceptable losses.

Oh, wait, no, it is the latter. Because, again, the Horde dominated the war from start to finish, obliterating Alliance presence in central Kalimdor, wiping out non-human part of their most elite 7th Legion and destroying most of their fleet with krakens. While the Alliance's "biggest" victory prior to Vol'jin's rebellion was beating a garrison of Orcs at a temple in Krasarang (in a scenario that truly showcased the depths of Alliance ineptitude when it comes to war, because Tyrande, a milennia old leader of various wars still had to be schooled by Varian on the very basics despite it being Varian's first war).

I hae the game as a source and the fact the alliance won without even pulling half its trump cards.

You have a few badly written books. Stuff that's easily medan'ed if they want to.

Not even the book, just a line from a book. That ignores basicly everything in game.

Also the alliance haven't lost any zones.
Have u not seen the new darkshore ending fml

[FelPlague]

Haha. The vindicaar better watch out. They may have a laser cannon that can hit from out of orbit, but we have infinite range catapults that set anything on fire instantly! The draenai ran scared. Even if they didnt get hit by the catapults they would probably crash the vindicaar in the middle of nowhere.

"infinite range" the tree is not that far away from shore my dude... Like its a small lake distance, maybe.

Full sized boats at the tree, not that small.

[Specialka]

Is there any war the Horde won since the beginning? The first one maybe? Since they established a foothold on Azeroth?

[FelPlague]

Is there any war the Horde won since the beginning? The first one maybe? Since they established a foothold on Azeroth?

War against the alliance?
No, as most of the wars ended in mutral peace treaties.
neither faction has "won a war" against the other, as they all ended in treaties, not one wiping out the other.

[Mehrunes]

Galakrond Is no more a justification for sindagoras then Jaina flying in on her boat is for the catapults both happen after the scene in question and both are totally unrelated.

I don't really get this example. What's so special about the Lich King rising Sindragosa that would require extra justification? She's just a bigger than average dragon. Random twerps raised dragons en masse in both the Obsidian and Ruby Dragonshrines.

This is pretty much every powerful magic ever used in wow. The top brass of demons can destroy city’s by playing with sand, never used again. Wisp can explode, never used again. You can blow up planets by opening portals, never used again. You can rip people souls out and make them conduits of undeath, never used again. Black dragons can split people in two splitting personality traits, never used again.

Repeat until you get to modern day flying ships and arcane fire.

Blowing planets up with portals was used twice. And Illidan planned to do it to Argus as well. The Lich King completely backfired on the Legion. Same with Varian splitting for the Black Dragonflight (not that I get what was the intended purpose to begin with). Plus it was fucking stupid so it's actually better left forgotten.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Except demanding sylvan's head.

You really think when push comes to shove those guys would have Sat back and let sylvanas win? When they out right hate her?

If you think that your as delusional as hitter was thinking Britain would stay neutral when he invaded Poland.

You think magni won't defend his daughter and iron forge?

You think khadgar will let Anduin, jaina or tyralion die?
Or kelagose for that matter.

You think bolvar wouldnt have made an intervention if sylvanas looked like she was going to win, with him knowing what she was really up to?

Please... If push came to shove those guys wouldn't just sit around and watch there freinds and family die and there homes get destroyed because they had to work with the hord a few times to save the world. If anything they would have just accelerated saurfangs rebellion with there support.

Bfa already proves they wouldn’t help the alliance as the alliance was losing before sad orc made sylvanas leave.

Both khadgar and magni don’t make so much as a peep about the night elf genocide or the battle of lorderon and don’t show up for the siege of org even though the alliance and sad orc forces think they are going to lose. Neither of them are willing to back the losing alliance and all of bfa show case this.

Even bolvar who wants sylvanas dead doesn’t get involved even though he has the means to with the scourge and the dk order hall even after his more or less god son is almost plagued like he was and the land where he left his daughter is openly being attacked by the horde with them destroying whole towns. He wouldn’t get involved as again bfa shows. Bolvar also didn’t know what she was up to he knew something was going on with death but not that it was her.

[GreenJesus]

Khadgar flatly says he’ll have nothing to do with the war and magni more or less does the same neither of them are alliance at this point and khadgar hasn’t been since tbc.

Bolivar clearly isn’t willing to swing for the alliance either as we know he’s been active since legion yet has done nothing for the faction war.

That is only because of "plot". Khadgar is clearly a member of the Alliance, but isn't due to gameplay purposes. If his homeland/people were to be attacked LOREWISE he would rush to defend it. Just because he was buddies with Xx_Illidanbloodelfdh_xX doesn't mean he wouldn't protect his own people from an attacking force.

[Specialka]

War against the alliance?
No, as most of the wars ended in mutral peace treaties.
neither faction has "won a war" against the other, as they all ended in treaties, not one wiping out the other.

To win, you do not need to wipe out the opposite party. If so, the Germany would not longer exist. You need to force the opposite party to have peace with you with YOUR terms. And as far as I know, the Horde never won a war. The Alliance always had the upper hand.

[Monster Hunter]

War against the alliance?
No, as most of the wars ended in mutral peace treaties.
neither faction has "won a war" against the other, as they all ended in treaties, not one wiping out the other.

So the allies dint win ww1 or 2 cos Germany still exists?

Wars don't have to end in genocide. Its about who capitulates first usualy is the looser and that's been the hord twice.

[Kithelle]

So the allies dint win ww1 or 2 cos Germany still exists?

Wars don't have to end in genocide. Its about who capitulates first usualy is the looser and that's been the hord twice.

Germany was pounded into submission by multiple forces on multiple fronts, Alliance was hurting as bad if not worse than the Horde for plot.