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  1. #101
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Yes, that is most of the Horde, but I fail to see Baine as a blood stained "monster". But whatever.
    Ya when you and your people support two separate genocidal leader and openly defend them against the victims of said genocides your a spotless hero.

  2. #102
    World is not black or white, there are grey areas.

    And when your ppl face annihilation if you rebel, you don't. But sometimes, when your leader goes too far as Sylvanas did, you have no other choice.

  3. #103
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    World is not black or white, there are grey areas.

    And when your ppl face annihilation if you rebel, you don't. But sometimes, when your leader goes too far as Sylvanas did, you have no other choice.
    Ah yes the “just following orders” defense. Who cares about genocide who cares about killing your own men or spreading plague all over the earth mother as long as your “just following orders” it’s A-okay!

    The world ain’t black and white but when you go as far as bane does you lose any claim to being in the grey even if you try and back out.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Ah yes the “just following orders” defense. Who cares about genocide who cares about killing your own men or spreading plague all over the earth mother as long as your “just following orders” it’s A-okay!

    The world ain’t black and white but when you go as far as bane does you lose any claim to being in the grey even if you try and back out.
    Then what do you propose? Execute all Horde leaders and all Horde ppl since for the most part, they followed Sylvanas?

  5. #105
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Then what do you propose? Execute all Horde leaders and all Horde ppl since for the most part, they followed Sylvanas?
    All horde leaders? Ya sure they knew what they were doing and should be punished accordingly.

    Horde people? Most likely had no part in the war and even a fair amount of soldiers likely had no part in the worse of it. Leave them be.

    The rest of the horde army who say took part is stoking the fire of the tree deploying plague attacking towns that did nothing to them ect. Same fate of the leaders.

    I’d personally go with lock them up between dal the warden towers and other magical prisons we have cleared out there is likely room for them but executing them isn’t A bad idea either.


    The alliance accepting any thing else is idiotic even more so when they try and pass the buck to sylvanas even though they did the same things under garrosh. If any of the horde leaders had any back bone or morals they should be pushing for such a thing them selfs and step down as they clearly don’t have sound judgment to lead a people.
    Last edited by Daemos daemonium; 2020-01-31 at 09:09 PM.

  6. #106
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Ppl are ignoring that what we saw in-game she did that only because some half dead nelf chick won an argument against her, so sylvie just let's burn tree because i was burned (in talk)
    And if u use the story that half ppl don't even know it exist it still doesn't explain either because officially blizz writer team waifu never planned to burn the tree, she wanted to kill 'hope' by killing Malfurion, only when Saurfang failed to do so (surprise... Malfurion is officially strongest mortal in wow, until a blizz writer decided to buff his waifu at least) she decided to burn the tree, so no the catapults were never meant to burn the tree
    Lastly and most important, if reason catapults were able to burn is because 'magic', how come the strongest druids on azeroth fail to use nature magic to counter fire ? were all nelf druids busy smoking weed as usual?
    I know the answer is plot armor, but seriously it is very illogical to do so

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Your not a hero just because after tens if not hundreds of thousands of deaths you change sides that just makes you a monster with nonsensical limits. Bane betrays his “morals” betrays his people and betrays his leader he is a traitor in every to sense of the word rather that be for the good or bad of Azeroth.

    Saurfang is even worse.
    he is a traitor from sylvanas pov, he is a hero from anyone sane pov
    If u use this definition, then every alliance and horde character is a traitor to someone at some point in life, since ur standard for 'traitor' is just doing something someone else oppose, not actual morals
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  7. #107
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    he is a traitor from sylvanas pov, he is a hero from anyone sane pov
    If u use this definition, then every alliance and horde character is a traitor to someone at some point in life, since ur standard for 'traitor' is just doing something someone else oppose, not actual morals
    This is my definition of traitor and bane hits every mark.

    trai·tor
    /ˈtrādər/

    noun
    a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.
    "they see me as a traitor, a sellout to the enemy"
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    how come the strongest druids on azeroth fail to use nature magic to counter fire ? were all nelf druids busy smoking weed as usual?
    I know the answer is plot armor, but seriously it is very illogical to do so
    The Druids weren’t there. They were either set to the sword to heal the wound set off in war fleets to Silithus or fighting and dying in dark shore to try and hold off the horde. The tree was nothing but a civ population by the time it burned with what mages they had holding portals open for days so people could get out.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    How did the Horde lose the war when they have catapults that can reach a world tree from miles away off shore and actually hit it enough times that a magically enchanted tree sitting in water could catch on fire? I'm honestly impressed. Why didnt we use those strong catapults in lordaeron and elsewhere? We would have won the war in a day.
    Hm, didn't know the distance from Darkshore to Teldrassil was canonized.
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  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I sincerely believe if Garrosh had survived the events of WoD, the destruction of Teldrassil would have still happened.

    Garrosh would have just tucked in his legs, and catapulted himself into Teldrassil with Gorehowl in both hands.
    Garrosh doesn't have the boobs err, I mean fanboy following I mean "plot armor" to 1v1 Malfurion for even a quarter as long as Sylvanas did though.

    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Being situated above water does nothing to protect you from catching on fire. Fires were deadly, deadly threats when ships were made of wood and still are now. Also, did you not consider the logistical difficulties of transporting said catapults from one side of the world to the other in whatever amount of time passed in lore from the burning to the battle? I know you go out of your way to find things to bash Blizzard on but you're really reaching with this one.

    Also you're forgetting azerite enchanted catapult boulders. If a volley of bullets weighing less than a pound can burn 100 soldiers to death in seconds than hundreds-pound boulders would do much more.
    Ships aren't trees though, and it may come as a surprise to some people (clearly) that trees have actually developed natural defenses to fire such as casting off their bark. But of course, the fire was "enchanted." Gotta make sure we remember one faction's individual units and strengths but not the other's.

    Last edited by TheRagebear; 2020-01-31 at 09:48 PM.

  10. #110
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Because he destroyed Theramore before the start of MoP giving him most of the year of MoP to do anything about it (especially prior to 5.1 expedition to Krasarang) and he still achieved nothing.
    why he would try to take darnassus when he had the entire pandaria, practically a virgem land, full of resources without the control of alliance? lul

    And you could see the effects of Garrosh's tactics on the way to Twilight Highlands. The result being a fleet wiped by the Black and Twilight Dragonflights.
    seems better than a fleet wiped by going to a hole in the sea for reasons

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    Tell that to every ppl that succeeded at a coup. They are not seen as traitor but whatever. We know you are biaised.
    Using words properly doesn't constitute bias no matter how much of an inconvenience to your argument is. What do you think a coup is?


    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    And Sylvanas (and those who followed her) betrayed the world.
    What allegiance to the "world" did she owe again for this whataboutism to have any validity as a comparison to Baine et al in order for you to magically unmake their treason?


    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    And before that genocide a ppl (NE), lead a war because she thought peace was not possible (though it was mostly to increase the death count to empower her), etc...
    And? Horde's foreign policy fell completely under her jurisdiction as the Warchief. And the Horde, including Baine and company were OK with that war at the start. Saurfang drafted it for god's sake. And Alliance has proved already that peace with them is utterly worthless. Sooner or later the next apocalyptic threat will rise and the Alliance will use that as an opportunity to attack the Horde because reasons, only to pretend nothing happened and act surprised when the Horde destroys another of their cities in response. You do realize there's a reason why most of the Horde followed Sylvanas and her war to the end, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by Specialka View Post
    I can't see Baine and co as traitors sorry. They stood firm for their beliefs, they think they can live in peace with the Alliance and they want to protect the world. If some ppl that are blind, followers of a lunatic genocidal maniac have to die to achieve that, so be it, they won't be missed.
    Your curious conflict with the definition of a traitor is duly noted, but other than that it does not constitute an argument. Them standing firmly in their delusional fantasy of peace with (or, more accurately, subservience to) Alliance is meaningless when the Warchief of the Horde decided in favor of war with the Alliance instead. Them not following that decision because of their beliefs doesn't make them not traitors no matter how firm or not they were because of how the Horde was structured.


    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    why he would try to take darnassus when he had the entire pandaria, practically a virgem land, full of resources without the control of alliance? lul
    Because it was not only his primary reason for war, but also the remaining Alliance region on Kalimdor that could possibly threaten him? Seriously...


    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    seems better than a fleet wiped by going to a hole in the sea for reasons
    You're comparing Garrosh losing his air fleet by mistake due to his idiocy to Sylvanas losing her fleet on purpose to achieve her secret objective that had nothing to do with the war. Which isn't even remotely productive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Being aware that you are a blood stained monster doesn’t suddenly make you a hero. This is one if not the biggest flaw with the faction wars one side soaks it self in rivers of blood and once they get tired of it they are treated as if they did nothing wrong and were “just following orders”.
    Meanwhile Alliance repeatedly starts shit with the Horde, pretends nothing happened, that they have the god-given right to attack the Horde whenever they please or whatever and then act surprised when Horde thunders the drums of war in response. One would think they would have learned their lesson eventually but given how even ancient Tyrande is so uneducated on matters essential to her position like warfare that she had to be educated by Varian who was just fighting his first war ever, I suppose the concept of learning and Alliance are like oil and water.


    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Ah yes the “just following orders” defense. Who cares about genocide who cares about killing your own men or spreading plague all over the earth mother as long as your “just following orders” it’s A-okay!
    Do you know who didn't care about Sylvanas blighting her own troops? The blighted troops. The survivors apologized after they got rescued. Because they sallied out of the city without being ordered to do so and then got fucked by the Alliance and would have all died if not for the Blight because with Alliance making progress against that marauding party the Horde wouldn't have opened the gates otherwise.


    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    The alliance accepting any thing else is idiotic even more so when they try and pass the buck to sylvanas even though they did the same things under garrosh. If any of the horde leaders had any back bone or morals they should be pushing for such a thing them selfs and step down as they clearly don’t have sound judgment to lead a people.
    Given how the Horde surpassed the Alliance in military strength even after Anduin's ex-Horde sycophants teamed up with him, the Alliance is in no position whatsoever to make any demands, lest they want to reignite the war and get crushed. Varian understood that after the previous faction war. Anduin probably understood that as well. Or maybe he just went all "yay peace" because peace is all he lives for. Or, more accurately, a hypocritical and self-serving illusion of peace where the likes of Genn can attack the Horde with impunity for all he cares.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2020-02-01 at 01:29 AM.
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    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  12. #112
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Given how the Horde surpassed the Alliance in military strength even after Anduin's ex-Horde sycophants teamed up with him, the Alliance is in no position whatsoever to make any demands, lest they want to reignite the war and get crushed. Varian understood that after the previous faction war. Anduin probably understood that as well. Or maybe he just went all "yay peace" because peace is all he lives for. Or, more accurately, a hypocritical and self-serving illusion of peace where the likes of Genn can attack the Horde with impunity for all he cares.
    This is what the alliance should be pushing for if bane and the rest of the traitors were really a bunch of hero’s like some want to push. In reality they are just a bunch of traitors who didn’t have the back bone to follow though on what they started but were also to cowardly to stand up for there supposed “morals”.

    The horde looking out for there own and being absolutely brutal about it is fine with me but when they try and pretend that there Nobel souls standing up against evil it rings infinitely hollow as they back that supposed evil for the majority of its rule.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    How did the Horde lose the war when they have catapults that can reach a world tree from miles away off shore and actually hit it enough times that a magically enchanted tree sitting in water could catch on fire? I'm honestly impressed. Why didnt we use those strong catapults in lordaeron and elsewhere? We would have won the war in a day.
    Same reason why the vindicaar didn't obliterate any horde city on the map. Even without the Alliance won again.

  14. #114
    Titan Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Because it was not only his primary reason for war, but also the remaining Alliance region on Kalimdor that could possibly threaten him? Seriously...
    .
    elves? threatening him? are you high? they barely can handle the warsong clan alone

    the primary reason for the war was resources and going ahead in the war, pandaria provide just that, if went to darnasus, the alliance would just get all pandaria and the horde would be fucked later.

    You're comparing Garrosh losing his air fleet by mistake due to his idiocy to Sylvanas losing her fleet on purpose to achieve her secret objective that had nothing to do with the war. Which isn't even remotely productive.
    you can call what you want, Garry was still better in any way shape of form

  15. #115
    Brewmaster Whitedragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Being situated above water does nothing to protect you from catching on fire. Fires were deadly, deadly threats when ships were made of wood and still are now. Also, did you not consider the logistical difficulties of transporting said catapults from one side of the world to the other in whatever amount of time passed in lore from the burning to the battle? I know you go out of your way to find things to bash Blizzard on but you're really reaching with this one.

    Also you're forgetting azerite enchanted catapult boulders. If a volley of bullets weighing less than a pound can burn 100 soldiers to death in seconds than hundreds-pound boulders would do much more.
    its not so much a problem of being in the watter, it's more the healthy tree bit. I don't know if you have ever tried but burning Green (Recently cut) wood is hard to do. Normally a fire has to be very hot for healthy wood to burn (effectively boiling the water out from it). here we have a few catapults lunching a few firebombs at a well hydrated, magically enchanted, aspect blessed healthy tree, and the thing combusts like it was some dead wood that has been sitting in a desert for years

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Leodric View Post
    Same reason why the vindicaar didn't obliterate any horde city on the map. Even without the Alliance won again.
    I'm really sick of the vindcaar being brought up when the damn thing was depowered after Legion.

    Why is the vindicaar brought up when the Horde at this point has two major magic centered civilizations, both of which are more advanced in useage of magic than the alliance races, one of which even has hyper specialized teleportation with no risks that could be used in conjuction with say, the race of hyper intelligent explosives and weapons dealers whose alliance counterpart seems oddly incapable of making anything with anywhere NEAR the military merit.

    Not to mention their widespread use of shamans who have been known to upend entire fortified structures should they have a feel for it.

    Both sides have crazy shit and always have.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  17. #117
    It was honestly a poorly developed scene that could have easily been improved by working some magical azerite plotmagic into the catapult attacks. Using the literal life essence of the planet to kill innocent people? That's meaningful. It would also explain why the catapults were so deadly to the tree.

    But nahhh. Normal catapult attacks it was. And the tree catching on fire as if someone soaked the entire thing in gas just moments ago.
    Last edited by Very Tired; 2020-02-01 at 06:18 AM.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    It was honestly a poorly developed scene that could have easily been improved by working some magical azerite plotmagic into the catapult attacks. Using the literally life essence of the planet to kill innocent people? That's meaningful. It would also explain why the catapults were so deadly to the tree.

    But nahhh. Normal catapult attacks it was. And the tree catching on fire as if someone soaked the entire thing in gas just moments ago.
    I think that was the weird bit. Darkshore was the first place we saw the horde weaponizing azerite. Would have made perfect sense if like, they azerited their catapaults and then they fucked up the tree but it also say, blew up the catapaults and everyone around them thus leading to the making of the azerite war machines.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  19. #119
    The Insane Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    It was honestly a poorly developed scene that could have easily been improved by working some magical azerite plotmagic into the catapult attacks. Using the literally life essence of the planet to kill innocent people? That's meaningful. It would also explain why the catapults were so deadly to the tree.

    But nahhh. Normal catapult attacks it was. And the tree catching on fire as if someone soaked the entire thing in gas just moments ago.
    they didn't need any fancy azerite fire they already had arcane fire from and had shamans help it spread, magic fire isn't really a new thing in wow.

    for reference this is what they used and what its capable of.

    The Horde’s siege engines launched fiery barrages into the sea, their arcane‐touched payloads spreading fire around the night elves’ fleet. In return, the ships unleashed volleys of cannon shots and glaives onto the shore.

    Morka’s group of raiders swam past the front lines of the fleet, surfacing only to take a quick breath every few strokes. Soon it became dangerous to surface at all. The siege weapons’ magic‐laced shots were lethal even in water, fire blooming outward, stubbornly burning as though the ocean were as flammable as a drought‐ravaged forest.
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/st...good-war#tab=4
    Last edited by Daemos daemonium; 2020-02-01 at 06:26 AM.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    or

    teleport the vindicaar inside the projectile!


    modern problems require modern solutions
    damn you're right.

    i'm not on your level yet .

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Yes, it has been used before and again. its been used many times beofre and since my dude.
    Proof please . i would like any statement beside the one in "A good war" that mages and shamans used their MUHGIC to enhance and guide catapults projectiles far beyond their original capacities.

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