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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    There is no reason to ever use Clawing Shadows. It's literally obsolete compared to the other 2 talents.

    Everyone who says otherwise simply doesnt care about dps. So if dps is actually the goal, don't ever use Clawing Shadows, there is literally no upside to it compared to the other two.
    Well,there is one upside to it. Its ranged. Si in like 1 percent of encounters,it can be good. I found myself usingbbnitbon xanesh with tanks that move her unpredictably.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinglong View Post
    Unholy's Rotation is somewhat too much for it's lower middle of the pack (& that's being nice) DPS.
    Shadowlands really needs to look at why Demon Hunter can press 2 buttons & do S+ tier DPS in every scenario but the other "Hero" Class is just complete garbage in comparison.
    Lol,middle of the pack in what, +2s? Because nobody can hang with us on high keys,especially consistently pull after pull. DHs are only better in scrub content where things die fast. Festermight and helchains literally make us a busted class in m+
    Last edited by Sinte; 2020-02-20 at 09:38 PM.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    should have started with this, would have saved me 1 minute of reading after seeing your name.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Castration View Post
    should have started with this, would have saved me 1 minute of reading after seeing your name.
    What does that mean?

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by pinglong View Post
    Unholy's Rotation is somewhat too much for it's lower middle of the pack (& that's being nice) DPS.
    Shadowlands really needs to look at why Demon Hunter can press 2 buttons & do S+ tier DPS in every scenario but the other "Hero" Class is just complete garbage in comparison.
    Are we really whining about Havoc when fire mages and rogues exist?

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinte View Post
    Well,there is one upside to it. Its ranged. Si in like 1 percent of encounters,it can be good. I found myself usingbbnitbon xanesh with tanks that move her unpredictably.
    Exactly, that can actually be useful.

    If you do 15+ Atal with Tyrannical then every spider on Yazma is close to a one-shot and there will be tons. Melee classes can get really screwed by that, especially since they have to run back and forth to drop the clones anyway. Melee loose a ton of dps just because of mechanics here. Switch to Clawing Shadows and at least you can do 70-80% of your rotation (Wound application is the one thing you cannot do at range except though the pet, but by throwing Scourge Strikes and Death Coils you are at least doing something)
    It also helps in some encounters with Explosive. Like the Faceless in Shrine (forgot the name), when he drops an explosive in one of his silence pools it is quite impossible for melee to kill it, if you have no ranged dps that is a problem.

    So yes, it is most certainly a dps loss to slot Clawing Shadows, but the Utility of making 70% of our rotation ranged is quite useful in some situations and a very unique abilty that comes with Unholy.

  6. #66
    I don't like the wound mechanic. It slows down the spec and makes it feel like I'm constantly setting up for damage, rather than doing damage. This is only further compounded in open-world content and pvp, where I find the spec cumbersome and un-intuitive.

    Add on Unholy being a Pet AND a dot spec just makes this worse. There are also too many cooldowns (Transformation, Soul Reaper, Army of the Dead, Apocalypse, Unholy Frenzy, Gargoyle), so when they aren't up, I feel like I'm not really doing anything, which is made worse by the fact that I need to "set up" my wounds to feel like I'm doing anything in the first place.

    The large number of cooldowns only exacerbates the GCD as well. The flow of gameplay seems to be too much of setting up wounds, wanting to spend them, but being interrupted by higher priority cooldowns.

    Also, Unholy has really weak animations / spell effects. The fantasy is great, the spec just lacks any sort of "coolness" factor. Give me bigger and better pets, and more of them. Give Death and Decay a new animation (Why is this using the same effect as Blood?). Make scourge strike cleave the same animation that Blood has for Heartstrike cleave. Clawing shadows should release some sort purple claw from your weapon. There's a lot of potential here, and I would look at the necromancer in D3 for inspiration, but right now the only cool looking ability is Apocalypse.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    I typically play the Plate melee classes, big fan of Ret Paladin, and Fury / Arms Warrior. Both those classes and specs are pretty straightforward to play, and have fairly simple "rotations" or priorities as they call it since Cat.

    Ret is just making sure you have enough Holy Power for Temp's Verdict, or in M+ runs using Divine Storm, I like Ret it's fun and quick. And my Warrior both Fury and Arms are like 3 or 4 spells to keep going, rinse and repeat, and the play style is very fast.

    Now my Death Knight, he's an alt, not my main, I was a Frost player, but it became very boring, and just not a fan anymore. I love the concept idea with Unholy, spreading diseases and the creepy pet, seems like a Necromancer or unique class for WoW, almost like a plate Warlock. But for the life of me, I just can't comfortable with the rotation or priority play style. I typically play Mythic +, lower keys 10's and under, but seems Unholy almost needs more time to ramp up and get rolling, and M+ runs can be so fast, some enemies go down so too quick, maybe not enough time to really allow Unholy spec to get going?

    Or I seem to run out of runes not enough energy and long cool downs on spells, making it a frustrating spec to play, compared to my Ret Paladin, and Fury Warrior, which are easier to manage and always have power to cast spells.

    I have read up guides on wowhead and method sites, but playing it feels different, like not an easy smooth rotation. Any tips?

    I usually start off casting Outbreak, then Festering Strike, then a couple Scourge Strikes, and then Outbreak, and after that I start running low on runes or have long cool downs on either FS or SS. I also always keep Dark Transformation up Unholy Frenzy.

    What am I missing here?

    Character;
    https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...ljin/dethdingo
    Look up the UHDK on Wowhead written by Biceps or the youtube video by Marcellian (Unholy DK 8.3 or something to that effect) and join the Acherus Discord (DK Discord) don't listen to anything written here it's all trash, mostly anyway !

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    There is no reason to ever use Clawing Shadows. It's literally obsolete compared to the other 2 talents.

    Everyone who says otherwise simply doesnt care about dps. So if dps is actually the goal, don't ever use Clawing Shadows, there is literally no upside to it compared to the other two.
    That is simply not true, with high enough mastery CS is perfectly viable for ST fights.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    this change is to help players like you..... you know..night elf with tyrannical beheader...

    Azharok - Dalaran EU

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Azharok View Post
    That is simply not true, with high enough mastery CS is perfectly viable for ST fights.
    And tell me again, why would you intentionally start stacking mastery for that?

    It would still be behind in dps btw. It just wouldn't be as bad. "Perfectly viable" does not mean there are no strictly better choices to make.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by infinitemeridian View Post
    ...
    Also, Unholy has really weak animations / spell effects. The fantasy is great, the spec just lacks any sort of "coolness" factor. Give me bigger and better pets, and more of them. Give Death and Decay a new animation (Why is this using the same effect as Blood?). Make scourge strike cleave the same animation that Blood has for Heartstrike cleave. Clawing shadows should release some sort purple claw from your weapon. There's a lot of potential here, and I would look at the necromancer in D3 for inspiration, but right now the only cool looking ability is Apocalypse.
    Absolutely, I find it very unsatisfying, not only you put so much work to do okayish, but the sounds and visuals are underwhelming. Hissing and slushing, along with invisible minimalist black effects that are completely lost in a fight.
    Frost is passable with most of its attacks having a nice punchy feedback, but Unholy and Blood are absent.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    And tell me again, why would you intentionally start stacking mastery for that?

    It would still be behind in dps btw. It just wouldn't be as bad. "Perfectly viable" does not mean there are no strictly better choices to make.
    The point is Clawing Shadows isn't behind in dps btw, in the 8.3 world where you might get stuck with mastery corruptions or gear, or just might have naturally high mastery from high ilvl gear.

    For the final words on Clawing Shadows vs All Will Serve as the only ST options, I'm just gonna leave this amazing quote from the awesome Chewie on #Acherus Discord:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chewie
    What's up with Clawing Shadows vs All Will Serve, is there a mastery breakpoint?

    So, Clawing Shadows can do well in builds with high mastery. In the current patchwerk simulation it will break even with All Will Serve around 50% Mastery (without mastery procs/Masterful Corruption). This is a decent approximation for when you can start thinking about the talent in single target.

    Clawing Shadows will perform better than All Will Serve the more rune-capping downtime you have in a fight. (spend these otherwise capped runes on Clawing Shadows) This means through good set up play prior to downtime, you can mitigate potential loss with Clawing Shadows, and take advantage of its increased range to its favour.

    This gets more complicated in AoE. All Will Serve will cleave from range during downtime at any time, whereas CS will only cleave while you are standing inside Death and Decay. Mastery breakpoints when you start adding multiple targets and different forms of downtime start to get very muddy. Generally Infected Claws is favoured in AoE regardless.

    In short, simulate Clawing Shadows vs All Will Serve, if it sims higher, play to its strengths and it will probably perform better.
    _____________________________________________
    Also known as Kalrell ingame and @Kalrell on Twitters.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinzaram View Post
    The point is Clawing Shadows isn't behind in dps btw, in the 8.3 world where you might get stuck with mastery corruptions or gear, or just might have naturally high mastery from high ilvl gear.

    For the final words on Clawing Shadows vs All Will Serve as the only ST options, I'm just gonna leave this amazing quote from the awesome Chewie on #Acherus Discord:
    Here's the thing.

    "Play to its strengths" might work for high-end people it is still a limiting factor that one options is basically passive while the other one requires actual setup and extra attention.

    At this point Clawing Shadows would not need to be comparable to All Will Serve, it would need to actually be noticably stronger in order to warrant usage.
    Because if there is a possiblity of failure then being "kinda equal" just does not cut it when the other option is literally passive.
    Even with mastery corruption.

    And then again, I would rather fish for more useful corruption items than mastery boosting ones.

    It's not the question of "can I justify using this over the other one" but more of "why would I justify using this over a passive effect that is stronger without any setup".
    You are not doing service to the level of play this question is coming from when you tell them stuff like this.
    You are giving them false hope that they might do a tiny bit more dps with double the effort rather then just making them have a passive talent that does good dps no matter what. Cuz at the end, they will not do better dps at all.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Here's the thing.

    "Play to its strengths" might work for high-end people it is still a limiting factor that one options is basically passive while the other one requires actual setup and extra attention.

    At this point Clawing Shadows would not need to be comparable to All Will Serve, it would need to actually be noticably stronger in order to warrant usage.
    Because if there is a possiblity of failure then being "kinda equal" just does not cut it when the other option is literally passive.
    Even with mastery corruption.

    And then again, I would rather fish for more useful corruption items than mastery boosting ones.

    It's not the question of "can I justify using this over the other one" but more of "why would I justify using this over a passive effect that is stronger without any setup".
    You are not doing service to the level of play this question is coming from when you tell them stuff like this.
    You are giving them false hope that they might do a tiny bit more dps with double the effort rather then just making them have a passive talent that does good dps no matter what. Cuz at the end, they will not do better dps at all.
    What? Clawing Shadows IS comparable to All Will Serve, if not better, depending on your mastery. It is also prone to the usual pathing issues and the like. It sims about 600dps more than AWS for me

    I run CS unless in using CS/BS for cleave. CS is very strong since there is a lot of movement in Nyalotha and maintaining uptime with a few ranged hits is going to do more damage than SS when you're out of range

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    Here's the thing.

    "Play to its strengths" might work for high-end people it is still a limiting factor that one options is basically passive while the other one requires actual setup and extra attention.

    At this point Clawing Shadows would not need to be comparable to All Will Serve, it would need to actually be noticably stronger in order to warrant usage.
    Because if there is a possiblity of failure then being "kinda equal" just does not cut it when the other option is literally passive.
    Even with mastery corruption.

    And then again, I would rather fish for more useful corruption items than mastery boosting ones.

    It's not the question of "can I justify using this over the other one" but more of "why would I justify using this over a passive effect that is stronger without any setup".
    You are not doing service to the level of play this question is coming from when you tell them stuff like this.
    You are giving them false hope that they might do a tiny bit more dps with double the effort rather then just making them have a passive talent that does good dps no matter what. Cuz at the end, they will not do better dps at all.
    Even if CS was EQUAL DPS to AWS on high movement fights, your uptime would be higher anyway. Now add the fact that in some cases it can sim higher just makes it a better choice over AWS on ST fights. Maybe in a perfect world where you drop BiS all the time it is not the case, but on my toon on a pure ST fight CS sims higher than AWS (Raden Skittra, Maut, Wrathion, Xanesh, Drest, Shad etc) why would I gimp myself by not picking it ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Smoopie
    this change is to help players like you..... you know..night elf with tyrannical beheader...

    Azharok - Dalaran EU

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