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  1. #561
    Tanks should have been reformatted into DPS with enmity skills long ago and spread among more trees, the idea of a classic MMO tank is extremely dated. 90% of it is backend math and no gameplay and all it does in genuine exercise is punish the entire playerbase.

  2. #562
    Quote Originally Posted by Testodruid View Post
    So now I made a stupid comment too, about something completely else than I was commenting? Now I think you're just confused but Im gonna let this one pass.
    Well you commented on a post on a post that talked about people not knowing how to interrupt the right abilities. It's not my fault your memory is bad.

  3. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    What, and you think that if they removed timers, dps would spend time to learn? How many dps look up a dungeon before they set foot in a regular dungeon the first time is out?
    That's kinda my point though? DPS can be carried, a Tank cannot.

    Some players regardless of what role they play, spend time looking into guides for whatever content they're doing.
    Other players don't look up anything and simply learn on the go.

    A DPS player who "wings it" is far less detrimental to the group than a Tank "winging it". Why? Because they can be carried. Miss an interrupt? Not the end of the world in lower keys and chances are, someone else interrupted anyway. Don't know where to go? What to pull? What to skip? Who cares, just stay with group and let the Tank do their job. Stand in bad? Healer can carry you... stand in too much bad and die on Tyrannical week? Get a Brez... or watch the better DPS carry you before the timer runs out.

    This thread is about a shortage of Tanks, and the reason is obvious (IMO). Tanking has always been a niche role, but M+ has exacerbated things.

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    2. people stop being bitches and think that tanks are hard, or that doing pulls in a dungeon is a daunting task.
    And that attitude is the reason why many people who are scared of tanking will never even attempt to try it. As long as people keep claiming "tanking is the easiest job" people will not want to try it, because 1) it's embarrassing to do mistakes / fail on an "easy" job 2) you will get no respect if you do well because "it was easy anyway".

    The question remains, what does a dps gain by going out of their comfort zone and trying to tank? What should motivate him? Exposing yourself to public embarrassment which often happens to inexperienced tanks for absolutely no reward except "well at least he wasn't a pussy who's scared of tanking"?

    In many cases people do things they don't enjoy in wow because it gives them an extra reward. Tanking over dpsing gives none, at best can give you faster queues but that's irrelevant once you step out of lfr / hc dungeons. For m+ you'll be scrutinized for r.io and for raids there are so few tank spots that it's often easier to just join as dps, especially with typical pug setups 2/3/9 and 2/4/14.

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticsDK View Post
    Queued as tank for a M+ this week. Didn't aim high. 448 Blood dk, so I signed up for various M+3 to 6's. Got declined on all. Asked one group why it was when they had been in Q for 20 mins, and he said I had no Raider IO.
    I thanked him for the reply and being honest at least, and made my own group. Only did a +4, but took through newbies without any IO score also.
    When people ask for r.io for +3 then we have a serious problem in the community, what kind of r.io is even reasonable for +3? all dungeons on +2? Being boosted through +10 once?

  5. #565
    Scarab Lord Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khazmodan View Post
    Blizzard could fix this at any time with a bag with 1% drop rate of mounts/pets not already acquired and 1k gold for each LFD/LFR solo que. The truth has to be that its more profitable for them to let you sit in que for whatever time it takes rather than fix the problem. Another solution which they will not implement (probably because of developer cost) is making practice runs possible in all dungeons and raids with only npc's in the rest of raid or dungeon group and a 1-100 score at the end.
    They did the mount thing before and non-tank/heal players (basically all dps) cried about it so they removed those from bag rewards.

  6. #566
    In order to have the most fun tanking, especially learning to tank, and ESPECIALLY in low level dungeons, what you need is at least one friend who likes to heal. Then you're in control of the run and you can just murder the idiot DPS and listen to their sweet, sweet rage when they get uppity. In low level dungeons with new players you can actually teach people how to do things properly as they transition from "madly pull everything" to actually learning to follow the tank. At higher levels the dedicated idiots are already too far gone.

    But seriously, the only answer to "there aren't enough tanks!" is to tell you to go roll a tank (or simply switch specs on your main) and learn the dungeons and have a total blast tanking everything! Sure you will have bad awful painful runs where you just quit in the middle and go play Minecraft for a while, but 90% of the time tanking is HELLA FUN COMPARED TO BEING DPS.

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    They did the mount thing before and non-tank/heal players (basically all dps) cried about it so they removed those from bag rewards.
    Yep, people always cry when there's a reward for increasing participation in something, and half the time that reward doesn't even work. Just look at Blizzard's idea of rewards to bring faction balance, endless cries from Horde about warmode bonuses to Alliance but did that make anyone switch from Horde to Alliance? I can bet you nope. Same with dps switching to tanks, they just won't.

    If we believe in capitalism and supply & demand, then why people have so much rage against giving extra reward for something that is in low supply / high demand?

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by reploid View Post
    This is fact.
    It's not. They are popular, but their exact popularity can't be measured - there's no accurate way to measure this, and even the popular sources attempt to do it through addons, which create abnormalities like Alliance-centered servers being labelled as majority Horde on those sites.

  9. #569
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    I like tanking already, but to make it more attractive I'd like to see all classes get a 4th spec at some point where some of them get a tanking spec. Mages could be spellbreakers, warlocks could turn into an actual demon to tank, shamans could go for a build that specialises in an earth spec, survival hunters could be like Rexxar in WC3 and become pretty tanky.
    Blizz can't balance all the DPS specs to be even.....can't balance the healers to be even.....can't balance the tanks to be even.......and everyone wants to throw in more tank specs. Yeah that will fix the problem!

    Everyone is talking about que'd content.......you're not getting a gear tank queing for LFR or heroics. Look the group finder for keys and you'll see tons of groups waiting for a tank. Even in my guild with a lot of people there aren't that many tanks doing keys.
    Me thinks Chromie has a whole lot of splaining to do!

  10. #570
    People don't "not tank" because of lack of damage. People don't tank because the tank has more responsibility than everyone else. They have to set the pace, know the pulls, know the mechanics, corral and place the mobs, etc. etc. And if they do any of these things to the dissatisfaction of any of the other players in their group, party chat will be filled with an assortment of comments ranging from passive-aggressive comments to outright harassment.

    Tanks know that if there is a wipe, they and the healer have a 50%+ chance to be blamed for the wipe regardless of the fact of whether it was their fault.

    So that's the story of why their are few tanks, and most pug tanks who will go through that are a mix of very arrogant and/or just don't care what anyone thinks. Most won't bother, and they'll just find something to do while sitting in queue as DPS or heals.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PixelFox View Post
    But seriously, the only answer to "there aren't enough tanks!" is to tell you to go roll a tank (or simply switch specs on your main) and learn the dungeons and have a total blast tanking everything! Sure you will have bad awful painful runs where you just quit in the middle and go play Minecraft for a while, but 90% of the time tanking is HELLA FUN COMPARED TO BEING DPS.
    Pretty much this. I don't get why people whine about it when they know they aren't willing to do it. Roll a tank and you'll never whine about lack of tanks again, because you'll be in high demand.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  11. #571
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Wait, is there a lack of tanks in the game? O.o I just thought the low number of tanks was because raids only needed 2, when you could have 20+ dps.

    And tanking is really fun. Instead of just spamming buttons all day, you are doing alot of movement as a tank, controlling figths and being able to do powerful reactive moves. I have tanked since Wrath and have no intention of switching to dps or main healer any time soon. It is by far the most rewarding experience in the game, in my opinion.

    ....That said, if you want more people to tank, just give tanks some more cool abilities. I saw a huge influx of tanks in Legion, because of the special ability, that often let you do big dps or do something awesome defensive/healing-wise. Tanks often just get powerful passives as talents instead of abilties, so yeah, throw some cool abilities to power up to or give us a CD like Rage of the Sleeper for bear tanks
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  12. #572
    I too am unsure if we actually have a lack of tanks - cause if I queue up for random dungeons I often have to wait for healers.

    Nevertheless there are some parts about being a tank that makes it tanking some kind of less enjoyable nowadays.
    a) You have a lot of things to do in a dungeon or raid with major changes from season to season. I had to skip the PTR and beginning of 8.2 due to personal reasons... took me weeks to learn and adapt to new affixes, certain raid mechanics etc.
    b) Some tank specs are easier for certain content than others (e.g. warrior in m+, monk in raids). But the worst part about this is that highend guilds make those speccs and tactics prominent e.g. in MDI and EVERY casual group starts to expect a warrior tank for m+10 suddenly (even if demon hunter would work fine for those keys aswell). On the other side I instantly recognize what HUGE difference it makes to play my warrior in a low key group (compared to my DH) or having a druid heal in a low key group (for my DH) vs a shaman (same healer). Point here: Some combinations of heal-tank work out a lot better for certain specific content in game than others.
    c) Some tanks are especially hard to master. The amount of abilities to keep track on is so bad - just watch the kind of UI top guild tanks use... I have no clue how a newcomer shall learn all of that. For DPS it still is some kind of easy to learn (as there is little to no situational awareness required) - while keeping e.g. a blood and bone shield up while moving certain trash groups correctly so that your WL can AoE them whilst being in range of the healer and throwing an attack on the explosive orb in melee.. just in the same second your DH spawns an corruption effect. Well have fun on that.

    but to be fair - healers have it even worse. No clue how shamans are doing currently but I would require 2 action bars more than normal just for all the totem and dps stuff (which most groups expect you as heal to throw in every now and then).

    PS: Personal opinion. Tanks are fun. There have been better times e.g. when DKs could tank in frost or unholy. And there have been worse times. But the overall amount of things to keep track on as tank... well there is a reason why Limit used an off-raid raid lead coach during progress. Not to mention that most bosses in BFA have no new mechanics but simply are an overload of mechanics to keep track off (e.g. Azshara, as soon as you got the right rhythm she becomes quite.. boring).

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by Alduin View Post
    b) Some tank specs are easier for certain content than others (e.g. warrior in m+, monk in raids). But the worst part about this is that highend guilds make those speccs and tactics prominent e.g. in MDI and EVERY casual group starts to expect a warrior tank for m+10 suddenly (even if demon hunter would work fine for those keys aswell).
    That too, people say every class and spec is viable, but unfortunately the publicity like MDI and world first raid race streams created an atmosphere where it's very common to be declined for pugs or guilds based on class / spec because apparently everyone wants to copy pros nowadays.

    But that doesn't affect only tanks, you can be a trash tier rogue and still have higher chance to be invited into m+ than feral druid or ret pala.

    On a side note, Fat Shark Yes (world 4th Nzoth kill) was running demon hunter tank so hopefully that will help against negative stigma vengeance DHs used to have.

  14. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    Wait, is there a lack of tanks in the game? O.o I just thought the low number of tanks was because raids only needed 2, when you could have 20+ dps.
    Yeah, that's the basic problem that this thread has been regurgitating for 30 pages.
    If Blizzard would create content that required 15 tanks, 3 healers and 2 dps, we'd have more people playing tanks.

    It's really hard to play a tank if your m+ team has 1 tank and your raid roster already has 2.
    "Guize, I'll just go tank this boss" isn't really a thing.

  15. #575
    Bloodsail Admiral khazmodan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pennem View Post
    They did the mount thing before and non-tank/heal players (basically all dps) cried about it so they removed those from bag rewards.
    Blizzard listened to what they wanted to listen to and they make decisions based on profit.

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    Yeah, that's the basic problem that this thread has been regurgitating for 30 pages.
    It's quite a bit more complex than that. There are many factors all combining to discourage players from tanking.

  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    It's quite a bit more complex than that. There are many factors all combining to discourage players from tanking.
    Yes, I understand there are some social anxiety issues involved with tanking/leading groups, but at the core, the issue is really that simple. Tanks are underrepresented because there are fewer opportunities to "learn the craft" (lol). Increase tank slots and you increase tank participation.

    Now of course all that means you need to change the game rather radically.
    I don't really enjoy playing DPS, but I have to because my guild and m+ team tank spots are taken.

  18. #578
    Are you talking about not finding tanks for LFG dungeons, raids or M+ ? Because everytime I look for decent M+ keys most groups lack (good) healers.

    From personal experience only, I know from our own raid roster pretty much every melee dps plays their tank specc (or a tank class) because that gets them their +10 key or allows them to grind new content easier because of increased survivability (e.g. nazjatar). Pretty much all pure dps also play a tank specc to grind for event items (like the low rocket), PVP (nazjatar), M+ score or fun. From our heal hybrids (shamans, druids, monks, paladins, priests) I know for a fact that they either prefer going tank (paladin, druid, monk) or stay dps because of the immense hassle to heal in a +10.

    The amount of people I know that want to heal is even less than those that want to tank. Not to say, that for most tanks their relation to the healer in a group has always defined their willingness to tank (aka if you don't know the healer or have a bad one you lose a lot of interest in the game. You have to compensate A LOT for bad healers or cannot play as aggressively).


    PS: Something I have to admit whilst talking to some (more) casual tanks - some of them are overwhelmed by the abilities and tend to use certain castsequence macros like GnomishSequenceEnhancer just to get the "basic" stuff done with clicking 1 button. Complexity seems to kill casuals....

  19. #579
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    Yeah, that's the basic problem that this thread has been regurgitating for 30 pages.
    If Blizzard would create content that required 15 tanks, 3 healers and 2 dps, we'd have more people playing tanks.

    It's really hard to play a tank if your m+ team has 1 tank and your raid roster already has 2.
    "Guize, I'll just go tank this boss" isn't really a thing.
    Yeah it really must be this, because if tanking itself was the problem, we would hear droves and droves of people talking bad about tanking, but that haven't been the case for me atleast, when i talk to other tanks.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    O.o I just thought the low number of tanks was because raids only needed 2, when you could have 20+ dps.
    Only 2 tanks in raids has nothing to do with the perceived lack of tanks. Guild/friend groups always have enough tanks, always.

    What's lacking is players wanting to tank for strangers. I don't think there is much Blizzard can do about this, because:


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