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  1. #581
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    Yeah, that's the basic problem that this thread has been regurgitating for 30 pages.
    If Blizzard would create content that required 15 tanks, 3 healers and 2 dps, we'd have more people playing tanks.

    It's really hard to play a tank if your m+ team has 1 tank and your raid roster already has 2.
    "Guize, I'll just go tank this boss" isn't really a thing.
    Yeah it really must be this, because if tanking itself was the problem, we would hear droves and droves of people talking bad about tanking, but that haven't been the case for me atleast, when i talk to other tanks.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

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  2. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    O.o I just thought the low number of tanks was because raids only needed 2, when you could have 20+ dps.
    Only 2 tanks in raids has nothing to do with the perceived lack of tanks. Guild/friend groups always have enough tanks, always.

    What's lacking is players wanting to tank for strangers. I don't think there is much Blizzard can do about this, because:


  3. #583
    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    Yes, I understand there are some social anxiety issues involved with tanking/leading groups, but at the core, the issue is really that simple. Tanks are underrepresented because there are fewer opportunities to "learn the craft" (lol).
    More like "nobody wants to put up with tank who's still learning", everyone wants a tank that's already geared, experienced, and knows everything.

    I've even seen multiple situations where a guild's raid tank would quit and guild would refuse to take an outsider for a trial, would rather make one of their dps reroll to tank then recruit an extra dps. Because apparently it's too much of a risk to trial a tank that might fail over a dps that could also fail.

    The community is generally unwelcoming for players who are "still learning", the general attitude is "know your shit or kick", but that's even more so with tanks. Rotation and class abilities of a tank are easy to learn, but the amount of different content and strats for them you need to know can be daunting for a newbie. It's even worse in raid pugs, because the other tank not knowing his shit can kill you, and you'll often be blamed for that.

    A friend of mine told me a story from lfr, where 1 tank on hivemind didn't understand the concept of splitting the bosses which was very frustrating for everyone involved. If the other tank would move his boss, the clueless one would follow. Yells on chat didn't bother him, maybe he didn't know English. And that's a situation where you yourself can know what to do, but you can't "fix" the tactic because you can't "fix" the other tank being dumb or deliberately fucking you up because "it's just lfr lol and I'm completely stoned" or something.
    Last edited by Marrilaife; 2020-02-15 at 04:22 AM.

  4. #584
    the only way that would happen is through the removal of lfg/lfr no cross servers, and your characters reputation meaning something on your server, again. I think this is partly why classic had a decent push. players were more accountable again.

  5. #585
    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    Yes, I understand there are some social anxiety issues involved with tanking/leading groups, but at the core, the issue is really that simple. Tanks are underrepresented because there are fewer opportunities to "learn the craft" (lol). Increase tank slots and you increase tank participation.

    Now of course all that means you need to change the game rather radically.
    I don't really enjoy playing DPS, but I have to because my guild and m+ team tank spots are taken.
    It's not really just social anxiety though. Certainly there are people who struggle with that, but I don't think it's accurate to describe it that norrowly.

    There is more responsibility when tanking. This applies to healers as well. Objectively because there is only one tank or healer, and three DPS. But also subjectively due to the nature of the community.

    Any given boss encounter can likely be taken down even if all the DPS dies, assuming there's no enrage timer. In some cases a tank with strong self-healing can even dispense with a healer if also over-geared. But try doing a run with no tanks.

    You might be thinking that an overgeared DPS could handle things if the tank dies....but consider carefully that any such DPS is effectively stepping into the role of tank, and likely can't do so in a raid setting anyway.

    Now add to that the community expectations of a tank always knowing every boss, every mechanic, amd every path through the dungeon. While DPS and healers can scrape by knowing nothing except how their class works, often ignoring mechanics and/or interrupts...largely because there are two other DPS and a tank to handle it.

    Stepping into that environment, even without social anxiety, is a pretty big step. And one that's often met with derision and bile for performance that's less than perfect. Not always....but often enough to be discouraging, especially when compared to the relative cakewalk of DPSing.

  6. #586
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Objectively because there is only one tank or healer, and three DPS.
    ...which was my point, albeit somewhat terse.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    But also subjectively due to the nature of the community.
    Which is really strange since tanking is actually the easiest role to play (in raids). Somewhat more demanding in M+, agreed.

  7. #587
    I really liked tanking in Legion, because I didn't need to worry about having proper weapons. Now you need to get a proper weapon, and essences and change your neck. It's too much hassle..

  8. #588
    Let rogue's tank. Problem solved. At least, for anybody who knows me. I love tanking, but I love my rogue more. I would tank all the things if they'd let me.

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by Alduin View Post
    Are you talking about not finding tanks for LFG dungeons, raids or M+ ? Because everytime I look for decent M+ keys most groups lack (good) healers.

    From personal experience only, I know from our own raid roster pretty much every melee dps plays their tank specc (or a tank class) because that gets them their +10 key or allows them to grind new content easier because of increased survivability (e.g. nazjatar). Pretty much all pure dps also play a tank specc to grind for event items (like the low rocket), PVP (nazjatar), M+ score or fun. From our heal hybrids (shamans, druids, monks, paladins, priests) I know for a fact that they either prefer going tank (paladin, druid, monk) or stay dps because of the immense hassle to heal in a +10.

    The amount of people I know that want to heal is even less than those that want to tank. Not to say, that for most tanks their relation to the healer in a group has always defined their willingness to tank (aka if you don't know the healer or have a bad one you lose a lot of interest in the game. You have to compensate A LOT for bad healers or cannot play as aggressively).


    PS: Something I have to admit whilst talking to some (more) casual tanks - some of them are overwhelmed by the abilities and tend to use certain castsequence macros like GnomishSequenceEnhancer just to get the "basic" stuff done with clicking 1 button. Complexity seems to kill casuals....
    With the caveat that I haven't really played/done M+ since the Uldir era of BFA, I can certainly say that I don't understand M+ healers either. I started as a healer in M+, and then dropped that idea because the pressure was fucking insane. I played with half friends and half pugs, so not the best people ever but not awful either, and it was honestly the most stressed I'd ever been in WoW, having played since Classic up until around BoD patch launch of BFA.

    I then moved on to tanking, but found that I didn't particularly enjoy that either, with BFA class and GCD changes. And still having to half pug, thus subjecting myself to the horrors of that world even more so, in the tanking position.

    People are so toxic, or so bad (sometimes both at once) that pugging really has no appeal. The best case scenario is simply someone who doesn't say a word, and just follows along and does average output. That's the fucking dream. I just stopped doing content that required me to opt into that kind of world, and so, another tank/healer dropped out of the pool.

  10. #590
    Keyboard Turner SirDjord's Avatar
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    I stopped enjoy tanking mid wotlk. When threat was removed as the main purpose of tanking in favour of focus on self survivability and pushing pulling as fast as possible that really did not appeal to me and it changed how tanks functioned fundamentally.

  11. #591
    It's a community problem, I don't want to tank because the community is completely min-maxing speed run tank is leader of everything minded.

  12. #592
    Not much you can do. But first design dungeons without short cuts. You must fight every mob. Second, add a tank mentoring option in a group finder. The tank cant be kicked and there are extra rewards for DPS and healers that are willing to be patient and help the tank learn.

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    Which is really strange since tanking is actually the easiest role to play (in raids).
    Can you expand on that? Because tanking is still very important. If one goes down, it can often mean a wipe even if a battle-rez is available. Whereas if a dps goes down, it's not that big of a deal, generally speaking.

    Mechanically speaking, I think I see your point. Since usually tanking in raids involves standing in front of a boss and swapping aggro. But I'd like to hear what you mean.

  14. #594
    I've been tanking since BC and the size of my pulls are based on what I know I can handle for a minute or so if the healer eats shit. I know my class, and I know how my mitigation works, roughly what i can self heal through and what time my cooldown rotation buys me. Because of that I almost refuse to tank for pugs unless most of my group is regulars. I don't care how good the healers gear is, or how good the dps think they are. If they are in a rush and want to pull extra shit, they make my job more difficult and unpleasant. So i figure the best solution is to increase tank mitigation and mob melee damage to match. Make it costly for a dps or healer to pull extra shit because they're in a rush, or don't know what they're doing. Players will let the tank pull and pay much more attention if it's likely that they die in 2 or 3 hits after pulling extra shit. There needs to be a price to be paid for poor play.

    Aside from that, make the leveling and questing experience for tanks and healers more tolerable. When not in a party, or fighting a mob with just your tap on it, get a buff increasing your damage, drop that buff if you are no longer solo, or someone else taps the same target. That way it's not an absolute slog to do daily shit on a support role. I get every class can DPS, but I'm tired of maintaining 2 sets of azerite gear just to cut the amount of time I have to spend doing assaults and visions.

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