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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    This what people like you don't understand. The people who "bitch" about BFA do not dislike WoW. They dislike ASPECTS of WoW and they would like to see Blizzard improve these ASPECTS. However you don't understand this because your mind works in extremes. It's either black or white. No grey zones.

    But of course there are grey zones. Example: I really really dislike Warfronts, Island Expeditions and Azerite gear. However, I love Raiding, M+ and Horrific Visions. So excuse me, but I'm going to "bitch" about the things I don't like even though I'm not going to quit the game because as a WHOLE I still love WoW. The features that BFA added to the game are (according to many players including me) really really poorly designed, so it's important that we let Blizzard know this.

    It's not "either or..". We are allowed to love a game as a whole even though we don't love every single ASPECT about that game. And we are allowed to voice our opinions about the ASPECTS that we don't like. This is how you improve things. You figure what is bad and then you improve it. However, Blizzard will not know what parts of the game is bad if people don't give them feedback.

    Stop being so small-minded.
    Sorry, but my statement has nothing to do with being small minded, simply telling others that if they feel the game is bad, it's better to stop instead of spreading your negative opinion with hope to receive "likes"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also this;

    Letting blizzard know what the state of the game feels like, or what aspect you do not favor works better by creating a sticky thread instead of dozens that ironically mostly only exist out of;

    " this game is bad but I don't know how to explain what is bad or how to make it better "

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    WoD added more to the game that will last forever, but BfA had the better content.
    WoD didn't have fucking Azerite, Essences, and AP, but BfA had the systems from Legion, such as M+ and World Quests.

    Overall, BfA is the "better" expansion, but WoD still added more things overall. Both are the bottom of the barrel in at least one category. If I *had* to replay an expansion, it would be BfA, unless I could bring the items and gold gained by replaying the expansion, in which case, WoD wins in a landslide because I'd sit on my ass playing Missions and nothing but.

    TL;DR: Both are the "worst" expansion at something and both expansions should be super ashamed.
    Legion should be up there. Thats the expansion that introduced the artifact BS and grinding. atleast bfa made that alot better. (Still meh)

    Sadly the essences + neck combined is pretty much the artifact weapon.

    And remember those good old legendaries? Ahye i forgot, that was by far the worst invention ever period ever. Power gap between legendaries were ridiculous, and hey. Legendaries now arent legendaries anymore lolll.

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    WoD added more to the game that will last forever, but BfA had the better content.
    WoD didn't have fucking Azerite, Essences, and AP, but BfA had the systems from Legion, such as M+ and World Quests.

    Overall, BfA is the "better" expansion, but WoD still added more things overall. Both are the bottom of the barrel in at least one category. If I *had* to replay an expansion, it would be BfA, unless I could bring the items and gold gained by replaying the expansion, in which case, WoD wins in a landslide because I'd sit on my ass playing Missions and nothing but.

    TL;DR: Both are the "worst" expansion at something and both expansions should be super ashamed.
    What did WoD really add aside from new player models? No new races, no new classes, a garrison system we never needed to go back to....

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  4. #424
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I didn't unsub at the end of WoD. But I'm finding myself increasingly reluctant to log in now.
    This so much. I think BfA has better systems (m+ alone > all of wod's content) but bfa 8.3 is so alt unfriendly that it's hurting me

  5. #425
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    What did WoD really add aside from new player models? No new races, no new classes, a garrison system we never needed to go back to....
    On top of my head:

    - Lighting and anti-aliasing improvements
    - Improved server response time on combat (this is easy to overlook but made a huge difference in responsiveness in combat)
    - World quests
    - In-world "secrets" that reward exploration
    - Mythic difficulty and the overall revamp of raiding difficulties that stemmed from the "Flex" experience in late MoP
    - LFG tool
    - Heirlooms tab
    - Toys tab (I think?)
    - Timewalking (I think?)
    - Colorblind support
    - Evolution of scenarios and instanced zones into much more stable technology where you can get phased in as a group

    Also the garrison system and mission tables, despite not being ideal, would later evolve into Legion's Class Hall and Artifact systems.


    Not all of those things were great or lead to great gameplay, but overall WoD does feel like it did more for the game long term than BfA, imho. BfA in many ways felt like a step back from Legion. I do consider BfA "better", mostly because of how much content was cut from WoD and how bad its reward system was, but honestly I had more fun with WoD than I did with BfA - whether that is because of the game itself, or the class balance, or just me, I don't know.
    Last edited by Kolvarg; 2020-02-19 at 02:34 PM.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    On top of my head:

    - Lighting and anti-aliasing improvements
    - Improved server response time on combat (this is easy to overlook but made a huge difference in responsiveness in combat)
    - World quests
    - In-world "secrets" that reward exploration
    - Mythic difficulty and the overall revamp of raiding difficulties that stemmed from the "Flex" experience in late MoP
    - LFG tool
    - Heirlooms tab
    - Toys tab (I think?)
    - Timewalking (I think?)
    - Colorblind support
    - Evolution of scenarios and instanced zones into much more stable technology where you can get phased in as a group

    Also the garrison system and mission tables, despite not being ideal, would later evolve into Legion's Class Hall and Artifact systems.


    Not all of those things were great or lead to great gameplay, but overall WoD does feel like it did more for the game long term than BfA, imho. BfA in many ways felt like a step back from Legion. I do consider BfA "better", mostly because of how much content was cut from WoD and how bad its reward system was, but honestly I had more fun with WoD than I did with BfA - whether that is because of the game itself, or the class balance, or just me, I don't know.
    Legion added world quests, MoP added the secrets, the LFG tool is from Wotlk, scenarios were also a MoP feature.
    But yeah true, the various tabs, mythic and TW were WoD additions.

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  7. #427
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    What's worse : garrison or world quests?

    Looks like they keep adding horrible features.
    world quests are literally dalies.
    the garrison was worse, but if you want to compare stuff, compare world quests and dailies.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    world quests are literally dalies.
    the garrison was worse, but if you want to compare stuff, compare world quests and dailies.
    WQ's however feel a thousand times better than dailies, something that both 8.2 and 8.3 made very, very clear.

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  9. #429
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    WQ's however feel a thousand times better than dailies, something that both 8.2 and 8.3 made very, very clear.
    Agreed.
    I far prefer not having to go to town to pick them up, or doing the stuff then picking them up and going "shit i shoulda picked this up before doing the other quest"

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Agreed.
    I far prefer not having to go to town to pick them up, or doing the stuff then picking them up and going "shit i shoulda picked this up before doing the other quest"
    World quests are daily quests + some QoL but they are still boring repetitive daily chores to keep hamst... I mean people playing brainlessly on a daily basis.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Dommie530 View Post
    Im curious how people can actually like legion

    From my perspective;

    1)They destroyed litterly every class and then fixed them through a silly artifact weapon(jeej) they said they would get rid of them end of expansion, so how will they fix our broken classes?

    2) offspeccs were litterly not a thing for most the expansion cycle

    3) alts pretty much a no go for most of the duration

    4) class halls; lackluster concept

    5) raids, nighthold realy good, rest were pretty boring and most bosses mechanicly felt the same and the layout was all so fel and shit it felt realy moody

    6) dungeons, well that was the good part.

    7) mage tower, pretty bad and sad for tanks, kite challenge was to easy. Imp melee one was cool, healer just lol.

    8) introduction of m+ neither a good or bad concept

    9) wq, we all love them.

    10) to many rewards which felt any item you get mend nothing, as their was always a better one pretty much.

    11) legendaries were rhe worst thing EVER

    Overall legion was a D at best lol

    Legion paved the way of the future of wow and it looks silly,

    Bfa tried to fix alot, and broke other things in the process sadly. But i dindt expect them to fix so many silly mechanics legion brought
    Here, I'll help you.

    1) Artifacts were fun in that you had a feeling of progress through the entire expansion that was horizontal instead of the solely vertical progression you got from leveling.

    2) Generally I have one spec I like for a class and stick to it. I remember having a time period where you had to pay respec costs and go out of your way to switch and I guess I'm happy just being able to switch on a whim. Not worried about min/maxing off sets.

    3) Not everyone plays alts extensively. I tend to level them and maybe play a tank alt. To counter your point, tons of people played alts just to do mage tower later in the expac. I have not played multiple alts in end game content since WOTLK where I was doing Heroic 25 on a resto druid, warlock, and prot paladin every week. Back then people bitched about having to clear multiple instances of ICC per character due to there being separate lock outs depending on 10/25.

    4) I've seen almost universal love for class halls. They were amazing.

    5) I don't end game raid anymore, but they were enjoyable that I did do.

    6) Dungeon design was the best since probably Cata for 5 mans. Mythic+ was a good addition that alone was worth a rating boost on Legion.

    7) Another loved feature by others. Many people made mage tower challenges the main thing they worked towards for an extended period of time.

    8) Already touched on.

    9) Agreed, much better than dailies. I'd like to see them become more dynamic in the future.

    10) I can agree, I like having a patch best in slot that you know you won't replace.

    11) Legion legendaries were my favorite legendary implementation yet. Knowing you could at any time have a powerful game changing drop happen was fun. Where players, not Blizzard, went wrong is trying to farm them in order to min/max their gear. The players killed the enjoyment of a great system for themselves. I wish they would do these legendaries again. They were awesome.

  12. #432
    WoD was the best expansion by far for the casual in me. Real life has not allowed me to raid since Wrath and in WoD I was able to buy just about all of the mounts/pets/toys my heart desired thanks to the Garrison and my 22 100s (All classes for each faction).

  13. #433
    WoDs problem felt more it was abandoned in like the first patch cycle. All they did was take things that were supposed to be in at launch or at the first content patch and spread it out to create an whole expansion and gambled the give you everything garrison was going keep you from seeing it. The systems weren't so bad though. Class design was pretty good. Raids were really good. PVP and stuff was alright. They just totally dropped the ball on content.

    BFA on the other hand really had all the content cycles and such you could ask for. They were numerous and plentiful. It's bigger problem is what was within them was kind of dry and mostly boring. Everything boiled down to time gates and endless point grinding mechanics. Hell even running dungeons now is about point stacking in a 3rd part addon. The raids, for me anyway, just weren't as entertaining because it's just a shit sandwich of dozens of mechanics bouncing all over the place of which aren't that bad individually but then with the dreaded 2-3 times the fight where they line up and make or break you reality.

    If I really had to choose which was better it is hard to say. Is having something 'new' to do more often that isn't very entertaining (my opinion here) with BFA better than a more entertaining (again, just my opinion) but never anything new coming out reality of WoD? Hard to say. Do I enjoy poo in my face that is a day old or two days old? Both seem pretty shitty. The only choice I want to make about it is the fact I wish I didn't have to choose either.

  14. #434
    WoD was a lot better than bfa and legion. It was however worse than MoP in almost every conceivable way, which is why it gets so much shit.

  15. #435
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    World quests are daily quests + some QoL but they are still boring repetitive daily chores to keep hamst... I mean people playing brainlessly on a daily basis.
    and? that is what dailies are and have been since TBC.
    have you been complaining about dailies since tbc? why are you even here if 13 years later they are still forcing ya to do dailies.

  16. #436
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
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    WoD made people stand alone in their garrisons, bored.
    BFA made people leave.
    Stop designing WoW like every content patch is it's own little expansion.

  17. #437
    To be honest, the cinematics in WoD were better, they gave more of an impact, like yrel on the boat for example, as for content? No , the dungeons in bfa are much better, the story is better, and i would rather deal with a shitty necklace than the garrisons we had.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    Legion added world quests, MoP added the secrets, the LFG tool is from Wotlk, scenarios were also a MoP feature.
    I'm pretty sure WoD pioneered world quests. They weren't called that back then, and they didn't completely replace dailies at first (only greatly reduced them compared to MoP), but they did exist. I believe they were called Bonus Objectives that showed up on the map.

    LFG I'm not talking about automatic queues for dungeons and stuff. There a barebones system before that worked poorly and no one used. In WoD, with the revamp of raiding difficulties, they added the LFG tool that now lets you easily list your group for Raiding, Dungeons, PvP or Quests, or filter through the available listed groups.

    Scenarios were a mop feature, but they didn't work the same way. The one example I clearly recall was during a quest in Talador, you would walk near Shattrath City and automatically be phased in into a scripted scenario, along with your group, seamlessly (without any loading screens). That wasn't possible before, although I will admit it isn't a particularly big revamp or anything, but it did impress me and pave the way to better instancing overall that is still used today even if not that much.

    MoP secrets you're right. I didn't have the impression that they were as prominent/rewarding as in WoD, but that's probably just my personal experience with it.

  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    I'm pretty sure WoD pioneered world quests. They weren't called that back then, and they didn't completely replace dailies at first (only greatly reduced them compared to MoP), but they did exist. I believe they were called Bonus Objectives that showed up on the map.

    LFG I'm not talking about automatic queues for dungeons and stuff. There a barebones system before that worked poorly and no one used. In WoD, with the revamp of raiding difficulties, they added the LFG tool that now lets you easily list your group for Raiding, Dungeons, PvP or Quests, or filter through the available listed groups.

    Scenarios were a mop feature, but they didn't work the same way. The one example I clearly recall was during a quest in Talador, you would walk near Shattrath City and automatically be phased in into a scripted scenario, along with your group, seamlessly (without any loading screens). That wasn't possible before, although I will admit it isn't a particularly big revamp or anything, but it did impress me and pave the way to better instancing overall that is still used today even if not that much.

    MoP secrets you're right. I didn't have the impression that they were as prominent/rewarding as in WoD, but that's probably just my personal experience with it.
    Bonus Objectives were a thing - sure, but those weren't exactly the same as WQ's. They were a single bar which you could fill by killing or collecting stuff in like Tanaan otherwise they were a one time thing which only appeared while leveling through the WoD zones. They didn't replace dailies either, but dailies weren't a thing in WoD at all really.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Agreed.
    I far prefer not having to go to town to pick them up, or doing the stuff then picking them up and going "shit i shoulda picked this up before doing the other quest"
    Yep, it just seems like a massive step back

    Amazing sig, done by mighty Lokann

  20. #440
    Quote Originally Posted by Sencha View Post
    World quests are daily quests + some QoL but they are still boring repetitive daily chores to keep hamst... I mean people playing brainlessly on a daily basis.
    I get that you dislike the concept,but fact is WQ are LEAGUES better than the traditional dailies,i want to vomit in my mouth every day that i have to do uldum and vale,the same bottlenecked quests,with objects that only one person can interact with(why did they do this?other quests that are more spaced out dont have this),in a small area with everyone....

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