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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    That's only for alts who started week 1 of patch, no grind.

    If you started late and suddenly need to catch up the worth of let's say 20 vials, it will become a grind, because "for free" aka minimal effort you get around 3 per week, if you want "5+" you need to grind.
    Hence why I said 3 weeks to get close to caught up, not instantly. It's still much, much faster. It is a catch up mechanic, just because you and Joe don't like how it works as a catchup mechanic doesn't change the fact it is one. Right now you get far more vessels per week then you need to upgrade your cloak, thus people/alts that are behind can catch up fairly quickly when behind weeks. This isn't rocket science.

    Anything more just seems to be "I want my alt to be strong for nothing, blizz pls mail me full 475 gear as well once my main clears mythic kthx". Yes, exaggeration but it's basically what people are asking for with essences. Cloak ranks and Neck already have catch up mechanics and you're complaining about those too LOL.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Good thing the game hands you 3 vessels for free on your alt and you get 5+ a week from doing content. Super hard grind! /s

    Also lol at claiming the lost areas are hard, even the most aids one in stormwind mage district is fairly easy and more annoying then anything. You don't need to full clear just complete the areas. So hard... not. By time anyone gets to the ranks that require lost areas they will have the very bottom talent and be working on filling out the rest of their tree even if they only did bare minimum to upgrade cloak. Just stop with these false claims.
    I'm just giving up here man.

    You're the one trying to call there's a "catch up mechanic", yet there is none. You can't even actually prove there is one, you just backpedal to "well you can just do this instead!", but it's still the same amount of work to level up the cape.

    And on top of that, you have essences to grind out.

    Both of this is FAR more than anything you had to do at the end of Legion. And we're at the end of BfA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Anything more just seems to be "I want my alt to be strong for nothing, blizz pls mail me full 475 gear as well once my main clears mythic kthx". Yes, exaggeration but it's basically what people are asking for with essences. Cloak ranks and Neck already have catch up mechanics and you're complaining about those too LOL.
    Essences aren't gear. And the more painful ones to get don't come from challenging content (Lucid Dreams, rep gates, mindless honor farms)

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    You can't even actually prove there is one
    Math proves there is one.

    A toon that started on day 1 of patch will hit rank 15 at earliest on March 17th.

    A toon that started week 2 of patch will hit rank 15 at earliest... on March 17th.

    A toon that started week 3 of patch will hit rank 15 at earliest... on March 17th.

    A toon that starts it week of March 17th absolutely WILL NOT take 2 months to hit rank 15.

    Once again, it's a catch up mechanic. Just because you don't like the way it works does not mean it isn't one. Don't claim bs like it can't be proven when basic math says, it is proven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Essences aren't gear.
    They effectively are. All they do is boost player power... the same as gear. Just because you fell for the smoke and mirrors act doesn't change this. You're not entitled to rank 3 on alts if you don't want to do the content to get them, nor does your alt need those rank 3s. Go look at essence ranks of alts for WF guilds and go laugh at yourself for thinking you need this shit.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    That’s one toon also let’s say you skip dailies outside of the mini visions

    Each area gives 4 dailies
    That’s 2k each day
    That’s 14k a week
    That’s 1 vision
    Full clear is about 1.2k?
    That’s 4.8% of the gem socket??

    Also to place the 14k into perspective
    Assaults are technically 21k a week
    Mini visions are 12k a week
    So you still have 33k without the rep grind
    Still 3 visions
    Still 13.6% of a socket

    And that’s not taking the raid mobs into account which is another 4% weekly

    To place that into perspective you gain as much from one raid clear as you do that single vision
    a full clear is more like 2k. and once you start adding masks you can get it to around 5k.

    and you get 5-6 keys per week.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    it's a catch up mechanic. Just because you don't like the way it works does not mean it isn't one.
    Lol what? That's a time-gate, not a "catch-up mechanic". Artifact Knowledge is a "catch-up mechanic" because you have accelerated progression to... how do I explain this... "catch up" to people who have been playing the expansion for longer than you have, because last week's 100AP is worth 130AP this week. Cloak progression is gated behind a limited number of attainable resources e.g 25k visions and 5 vessels. People who start in week 1 and finish on March 17th can just stop doing dailies for two weeks when they cap out on resources, while the people who start in week 3 will have to continue to farm. There's literally no "catch up" involved, unless you decide that you're redefining what the mechanic means (which you are).

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    WTF you talking about ??? That wasn't a thing... The spec tower challenge was closed once achieved...
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    You couldn't do mage towers once you completed them iirc, the option was gone


    So I've come to learn I only did it once on each alt for every spec, didn't know you couldn't do any longer. But I still stand by my point (for content that can be repeated lol) you can do no matter if there are easier/faster means to have it done.
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    A toon that starts it week of March 17th absolutely WILL NOT take 2 months to hit rank 15.

    Once again, it's a catch up mechanic. Just because you don't like the way it works does not mean it isn't one.
    My point wasn't whether you can catch up, but whether you have to grind the goddamned dailies. If you do... then you can somewhat "catch up" but it's awful to redo them on a lot of alts. If you do "no grind" version you get 3 keys per week: 1 from big invasion, 1 from the 2 small combined and 1 from doing the daily mini-vision.

    My point wasn't about how much shorter it's to complete the cloak, rather how much less you'd need to grind. AP on the neck could be different because toon A required 150k ap for the same level that toon B will buy 2 months later for 20k ap. Which means that toon B will do fewer islands / wqs for the same result.

    Cloak might become "faster" when there's no timegate, but doesn't become "faster" in the way "I only spent 1/5th of the time grinding dailies of what I did on my main".

    And I think a lot of people have issue not about the fact they want "free max rank cloak in the mail for their alts" but the fact that it's a mindless grind of lowest common denominator content just to participate in the content that is actually fun and the preferred "end game" of a player. I'd swear for players whose "preferred end game" is wqs / dailies you don't need any neck or cloak levels to complete it, so it just works as a deadweight to slow down people who want to play other content.

  8. #108
    *tells me I'm wrong then goes on to support my argument in its entirety* *I wonder if he sees the irony*
    One of the most difficult things for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Math proves there is one.

    A toon that started on day 1 of patch will hit rank 15 at earliest on March 17th.

    A toon that started week 2 of patch will hit rank 15 at earliest... on March 17th.

    A toon that started week 3 of patch will hit rank 15 at earliest... on March 17th.

    A toon that starts it week of March 17th absolutely WILL NOT take 2 months to hit rank 15.

    Once again, it's a catch up mechanic. Just because you don't like the way it works does not mean it isn't one. Don't claim bs like it can't be proven when basic math says, it is proven.
    That's literally not how this works. That's not how any of this works man.

    That's a time gate. Not a catch up mechanic.

    It will take the same amount of actual effort to get the cloak to rank 15 at all times. It is not mysteriously changing the amount of investment you need.

    I cannot go "Oh, it's SOOO hard to clear normal and it takes so long!" just because I afk'ed in the Normal instance for a month.
    You're trying to claim there's an amount of time going into getting the cloak because you literally have to wait to do that. That isn't. a. catch. up. It's a time gate.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    *tells me I'm wrong then goes on to support my argument in its entirety* *I wonder if he sees the irony*
    You have no clue what a catch-up mechanic is. Just another smartypant trying to show off on the interwebs.. Maybe before you try and play smart with math, you understand what you're talking about first.

  11. #111
    Aren't ranks after 9 require full clears since the requirements are 4 pages for the quest? its plain impossible for some classes to do even if you chain them one after another. They are planned around the "vision tree" where you have stuff like sanity per unique enemy kill and such. That's shit loads of memontos

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidwielder View Post
    Need Exalted for the rune.

    This is good. Now make R2 Essences BoA and the cloak acquiring chain instantly available in the Chamber for alts.
    So the pointless thing is the only reason to get exalted, nice

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    You have no clue what a catch-up mechanic is. Just another smartypant trying to show off on the interwebs.. Maybe before you try and play smart with math, you understand what you're talking about first.
    I said that people have forgotten that alts are not toons that should be given everything the main has earned. He said I was exaggerating, then went on to list all the things he felt his alts should be given for free and that the game is bad because these things exist and aren't given for free. Don't you see the irony?
    One of the most difficult things for people to do is objectively look at something they don't like and be able to accept that it is not bad, that other people like it, and if it was changed to the way they'd like it that other people would not like it and want it changed back.

  14. #114
    I am Murloc! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    You can skip most of it on alts, and its 'stupid easy' yet here we are having people complain about it.
    How being easy as anything the do with also being stupidly long and extremely boring ??? I'm so confused here
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    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafalga View Post
    Aren't ranks after 9 require full clears since the requirements are 4 pages for the quest? its plain impossible for some classes to do even if you chain them one after another. They are planned around the "vision tree" where you have stuff like sanity per unique enemy kill and such. That's shit loads of memontos
    Wrong. The pages from before rank 12 are locked to only 2 a run, it doesn't matter if you do 2 bonus objectives and then wipe on boss you still get 2, same as someone who does a full clear. The ranks after 12 require lost areas and again, can only obtain 2 per run and you get the 2 per run regardless of if you can kill the final boss or not.

    lol @ "impossible".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    It will take the same amount of actual effort to get the cloak to rank 15 at all times.
    You mean a non existent effort? Because mains get far more vessels then they will ever need to max their cloak, and alts can max it barely playing the game. lolz. Again catchup mechanic doesn't inherently mean "you get it cause your main did it! yay!" It means you get it faster, and you do like I already proved.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    I said that people have forgotten that alts are not toons that should be given everything the main has earned.
    There's a difference between "given for free" and "put 100% of effort on 10th char as you did on your 1st" and there's definitely room for some middle ground. You guys talk as if everyone who wanted anything lessened on alts immediately asks for 100% or 99% discount, even if they ask for just 20-30% discount.

    For example nice catch-up / alt friendly mechanic would be "if you're more than 3 weeks behind the current cloak max rank, your vessel costs only 5k essences and not full 10k" and then going to 10k once you close to most recent ranks. That would help people who started late, failed a lot of runs, etc.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    You mean a non existent effort? Because mains get far more vessels then they will ever need to max their cloak, and alts can max it barely playing the game. lolz. Again catchup mechanic doesn't inherently mean "you get it cause your main did it! yay!" It means you get it faster, and you do like I already proved.
    Congratz, you've successfully moved the goalpost so far.

    From me saying that BfA is the most alt-unfriendly expansion to you trying to debate that by saying the cloak has a "catch up" just for you to try to handwave that it really isn't a catch up, it's just that you can do it without having a time gate to it.

    And guess what, it still all revolves right back into none of this being an issue in Legion. Try to downplay it all you want, it's still less alt friendly.

  18. #118
    Patch 8.2 which was the last patch at least before this one maybe I spoke wrong but patch 8.2 was the first time that a neck catch up mechanic was introduced because it boosted your neck to level 35 before that there was no catch up mechanic outside of artifact knowledge that was already there and I’m sorry but a mechanic as dumb as that where you still have extreme requirements to unlock the ability to use your armor is not a catch-up mechanic patch 8.2 which was the last patch at least before this one maybe I spoke wrong but patch 8.2 was the first time that a neck catch-up mechanic was introduced because it boosted your neck to level 35 before that there was no catch-up mechanic outside of artifact knowledge that was already there and I’m sorry but a mechanic as dumb as that where you still have extreme requirements to unlock the ability to use your armor is not a catch-up mechanic
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    Blatently false.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellobolis View Post
    a full clear is more like 2k. and once you start adding masks you can get it to around 5k.

    and you get 5-6 keys per week.
    OK so 5 to 6 keys a week that’s one gem slot a week
    you can ignore dailies

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    Lol what? That's a time-gate, not a "catch-up mechanic". Artifact Knowledge is a "catch-up mechanic" because you have accelerated progression to... how do I explain this... "catch up" to people who have been playing the expansion for longer than you have, because last week's 100AP is worth 130AP this week. Cloak progression is gated behind a limited number of attainable resources e.g 25k visions and 5 vessels. People who start in week 1 and finish on March 17th can just stop doing dailies for two weeks when they cap out on resources, while the people who start in week 3 will have to continue to farm. There's literally no "catch up" involved, unless you decide that you're redefining what the mechanic means (which you are).
    I mean the clock upgrade is time gated in a way that someone who starts their progression this week can get six runs done then next week when you get 2 to 3 runs you can do more and eventually you will be caught up because you can get about five runs a week and currently you only need two runs to Reach the current You only need one run for the first eight or so

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    OK so 5 to 6 keys a week that’s one gem slot a week
    you can ignore dailies
    You only get 5-6 keys a week if you grind dailies.
    If you ignore them, you get 3 keys per week.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by rips View Post
    no. The Cloak Quest is current Content and it doesnt take very long to get it since you can skip the longest Part anyway
    Skip the longest part?

    The only thing I was able to skip was the HoO scenario, when I did it on an alt....And that scenario was 10-15 minutes... It still takes 1,5-2 hours to complete.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > MoP > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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