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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Completing a raid in an easier patch with better gear than was available then isn't really noteworthy.
    That's what people said about MC. It died as soon as people could get attuned. Then people said, just you wait for BWL. That will be the hard one. Cleared in under an hour. The goalposts were moved. Now once again, people like you are moving the goalposts.

    Eventually Naxx will be out, and people like you will be out of excuses when it all dies in one day.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Completing a raid in an easier patch with better gear than was available then isn't really noteworthy.
    Will Naxx being cleared on day 1 be noteworthy?
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  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticDreamer View Post
    Uhh, your logic fails when you are ignoring the fact that the people who cleared are hardcore vanilla fanatics who have studied and number crunched how to complete content the fastest.

    I highly doubt your standard group of players who say, started in retail would have been able to achieve such a feat.

    I used this analogy before, but what you're doing is like me, someone who has never performed surgery, saying that surgery is easy because a trained surgeon can do it. Just because someone can do something doesn't mean *everyone* can.

    Just because these people who have studied the game thoroughly and most of them have lots of experience clearing classic content can do BWL in less than an hour, does by no means mean the average player can do so. Nor does it mean the content is trivial or that people who said Classic was more difficult are incorrect.
    Players who only do LFR? Yes, I agree.

    But players in modern WoW who raid heroic? I honestly doubt those would have much trouble (if at all) in Classic raids.
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  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Will Naxx being cleared on day 1 be noteworthy?
    Yes

    Might take longer than 40 minutes but it will be done day 1.
    "I feel bad for Limit , they put in so many hours only to come in second place" - Methodjosh

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    So you agree that classic raids are objectively more difficult than retail, and that the top players in retail would have a tough time clearing BWL in 1 hour?

    Because reading your post, it absolutely seems that is what you are saying, but you are not willing to commit to it, so instead you use vague language like "the people who say these things are not wrong" - which just feels like a REALLY soft way of saying "this is what i believe"
    I can't speak on the difficulty of retail's raids because I don't raid in retail currently. Unlike a lot of people in this thread, I try not to speak on things I know little about. :P

    But for the areas I *do* have experience in? It's not even a question that Classic is more difficult.


    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    Dude, the raid has been out for less than 5 hours and there are at the time of me typing this 272 recorded 8/8 BWL clears on Warcraftlogs.com.

    What are you smoking that it isn't a joke?


    Nothing you've said in any way contradicts my argument?

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Afenar View Post
    no, there wasn't any stealth nerf, vanilla just casual, that's it
    Winner winner chicken dinner.

    There was a reason why OG Everquest players saw the demise of their game- Vanilla WoW was much easier and forgiving and a lot more casual friendly.
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  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by ryjkur View Post
    4 bosses down already, but early bosses are always easy
    Nice meme there

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    Remember all the people who were like "lol all the Wrathbabies and Cata scrubs are gonna be in for a surprise with Classic" nonstop?
    To be fair this was done on 1.12 and not on 1.6.

    Most pservers players never experienced MC or BWL on their release patches.

    BWL released today with the classes the way they were on 1.6 and with the fear the way it was on 1.5 wouldn’t have speed ran shit lol.

    We, just like every pserver as well, are on an overpowered patch. It’s that simple. Yea it would still get cleared , but you wouldn’t see 25 minute MCs on 1.3 or 32 minute BWLs on 1.6.
    Last edited by Tonkaden; 2020-02-13 at 05:17 AM.

  9. #369
    Yo, I heard World of Warcraft Classic was going to be included in the next GamesDoneQuick!

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Daara View Post
    Mythic raids are much more difficult than anything in Vanilla. There are really only like 4-5 tough fights in classic and all but 1 are in Naxx. I don't think any of these top classic guilds would compete with Method or Limit in retail. I could be wrong though, they are good players but they are doing it against bosses with 15 years of experience and knowledge.
    There are leveling dungeons with more mechanics than vanilla raids.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WskyDK View Post
    It's noteworthy to the people playing the same game.
    Uh it’s not really noteworthy at all. If the game had any challenge it would be noteworthy.

    This is like Usain Bolt winning the special Olympics 100m.

    Just Stahp.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Will Naxx being cleared on day 1 be noteworthy?
    Not really the most time spent is coming up with tactics following ready made ones isn't note worthy

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by OrcsRLame View Post
    That's what people said about MC. It died as soon as people could get attuned. Then people said, just you wait for BWL. That will be the hard one. Cleared in under an hour. The goalposts were moved. Now once again, people like you are moving the goalposts.

    Eventually Naxx will be out, and people like you will be out of excuses when it all dies in one day.
    Not really I don't expect anything will be challenging they have been doing these fights for 15 years and are on 1.12 it's kind of a joke honestly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WskyDK View Post
    It's noteworthy to the people playing the same game.
    No it's honestly not BWL is puggable with the level of hear available and the patch talents are on.

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Not really the most time spent is coming up with tactics following ready made ones isn't note worthy

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not really I don't expect anything will be challenging they have been doing these fights for 15 years and are on 1.12 it's kind of a joke honestly.
    Releasing on 1.12 with the gear updates and class balances was the worst thing they could have done. They will probably do the same if they release TBC. Kinda sad honestly.
    Last edited by Tonkaden; 2020-02-13 at 05:24 AM.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Not really the most time spent is coming up with tactics following ready made ones isn't note worthy

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not really I don't expect anything will be challenging they have been doing these fights for 15 years and are on 1.12 it's kind of a joke honestly.

    - - - Updated - - -



    No it's honestly not BWL is puggable with the level of hear available and the patch talents are on.
    Naxx was originally on 1.12

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonkaden View Post
    Releasing on 1.12 with the gear updates and ass balances was the worst thing they could have done. They will probably do the same if they release TBC. Kinda sad honestly.
    Yep BC with the mega nerf patch such fun lol

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by OrcsRLame View Post
    Naxx was originally on 1.12
    We aren’t talking about naxx are we? Did it release while I was logged out?

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by OrcsRLame View Post
    Naxx was originally on 1.12
    BWL sure as fuck wasn't. Again the most time spent came from coming up with strats. Much like Limit and Method will soon be 1 day clearing with splits for making gold for the expac these guilds have been doing these fights for 15 years a farm speed clear isn't impressive.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Daara View Post
    Mythic raids are much more difficult than anything in Vanilla. There are really only like 4-5 tough fights in classic and all but 1 are in Naxx. I don't think any of these top classic guilds would compete with Method or Limit in retail. I could be wrong though, they are good players but they are doing it against bosses with 15 years of experience and knowledge.
    Are you trying to compare players who have trained on the same bosses for years, maybe up to 15 years with raiders who clear content 177 times more difficult every single 6 months? Lfr players are better than see guys.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  18. #378
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryjkur View Post
    Original BWL lasted 3.5 months but with better experience it'll probably take 4-5 days.
    30 minutes... i guess that is close to 4-5 days.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
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  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonkaden View Post
    We aren’t talking about naxx are we? Did it release while I was logged out?
    The person I was responding to was talking about naxx. Learn to read.

  20. #380
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    If it was on the correct patch, it would still get destroyed, you would just have to add like 5-10 minutes to clear times probably.

    Beyond knowing every little thing about the game and it's raids (which isn't much), people still fail to realize that this game just can't be compared because mentality has shifted. Look at PvP. When PvP was first released nobody knew exactly how it worked, and it was much less common to have people doing dodgy tactics like queue dodging, or maximizing honor per hour. Now it's common practice because people have been doing this shit on private servers for a decade and the inner workings of the system is completely fleshed out.

    PvE is exactly the same. Not only do people know the bosses inside and out, but people don't need to deal with buggy game either. Mentality shift changes the difficulty of classic WoW pretty hard, regardless of whether or not you lived on private severs, or have been part of most expansion launches. When I played 15 years ago we had monkeys who had no idea how to gear themselves and now you have people who actually get excited when green items that give +healing, or +damage to a specific caster school. Before you just had ignorant people who wore tier sets just because it was blue or epic, regardless of whether it was good or not. Don't even get me started on %hit or weapon skill. 15 years ago you might have had a fraction of the people in Winterspring farming melee consumables, while these days it's not uncommon to see more than a dozen people in that area 24 hours a day. Then finally you arrive at world buffs. Do you know how rampant it was early in WoW for people to save these items before a raid started, instead of just turning them immediately to get your reward? Yeah, that barely happened, and most people only took advantage of that towards the end of Vanilla.

    So lets put this altogether. 15 year old game, bugs removed, zero mystery, players with actual consumables, and rampant use of world buffs and people are going to sit here saying that the big reason is it's running on the 1.12 client? Don't get me wrong, player power is certainly increased on the 1.12 patch cycle, but people are still going to blow this content out of the water regardless of what patch cycle they decided to use. The only way you make this content difficult is by lining people up and pushing them down the stairs to give them brain damage.

    This isn't me shitting on classic. I raided 15 years ago and I actually raid on classic as well, but for different reasons. For people to be surprised or to still make excuses as to why clearing BWL in <1 hour is possible dumbfounds me though. AQ40 and Naxxaramas are going to fall extremely quickly too. Not <30 minutes quick, but it's still going to get stomped. There are several bosses spanning both AQ40 and Naxx that would be around first week heroic difficulty by today's standards, but it's still not going to be hard.

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