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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    What "tuning"?
    Using buffed talents and gear from latest patch with early raids.

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    I thought pretty much everything is in the game as it was in 2005.
    No, it's absolutely not. This game is anything but #nochanges. They are doing changes every day.

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Poe View Post
    hahahaha

    Good one.

    What makes you think 5 days
    Sarcasm mainly. We cleared the instance about 42 minutes after release.
    <Progress> - Firemaw EU

  3. #443
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vsb View Post
    Using buffed talents and gear from latest patch with early raids.

    Guess then Naxx IS the true testing of how hard it will be this time around. Then again...was the info out in 2005 that you would need 8 geared tanks for that one fight...so that ppl had time to prepare...or did that come as a shock and cockblocked guilds. Which means we are anyhow back at everyone already having all the info and done the fight so much.

  4. #444
    Hold up, BWL is first being released now? Hell was there to do on Classic up until this point? Not trying to sound like an ass, just curious.

  5. #445
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    wut lol 4 days

    Try 40 minutes
    You, sir shall now officially be named "The Prophet"

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    I've not seen anyone claim this. Perhaps you can't spot sarcasm?

    We knew private servers were tuned harder, and they were easy as well.

    Anyway comparing Classic to actual vanilla content at the time is idiotic. We have 1.12 talents, 1.12 gear, loads of R14 running around before BWL is even out, loads of people flasking which was not common at all and using every possible buff. It was obvious how easy it was going to be, all we could hope for was Blizz buff the content, but they were fairly clear they weren't.
    Seems you missed the delusional threads where some people actually claimed it was hard.

    Of course they weren't going to buff content lol, that would be just dumb. Classic wasn't released for 1-2k super tryhards who aren't willing to get over vanilla.

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Guess then Naxx IS the true testing of how hard it will be this time around. Then again...was the info out in 2005 that you would need 8 geared tanks for that one fight...so that ppl had time to prepare...or did that come as a shock and cockblocked guilds. Which means we are anyhow back at everyone already having all the info and done the fight so much.
    Guilds had an idea about being forced to use 6-8 tanks, but I don't think it was until the first few guilds reached it, that the rest knew you needed 8 tanks. We killed Kel'thuzad world #90 and we got the info about 4h and needing 8 tanks about 2 weeks prior to reaching them.

    I can near guarantee you Naxx will fall about as easy as bwl/mc. I do not pay much attention to the meaningless discussions about vanilla being hard or not. We lacked many things in vanilla that many has now, a few of them being correct specs, knowledge about the game/classes, full consumables, absolute disgusting amounts of world buffs and the right itemization.
    Last edited by fjeenzy; 2020-02-13 at 10:04 AM.
    <Progress> - Firemaw EU

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by pkusa View Post
    Hold up, BWL is first being released now? Hell was there to do on Classic up until this point? Not trying to sound like an ass, just curious.
    1-2 hours of MC and/or bg's until your eyes bleed.

    Now it's going to be 1-2 hours of MC, 1 hour of BWL and/or bg's until your eyes bleed.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by pkusa View Post
    Hold up, BWL is first being released now? Hell was there to do on Classic up until this point? Not trying to sound like an ass, just curious.
    peeeveeepeee

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Guess then Naxx IS the true testing of how hard it will be this time around. Then again...was the info out in 2005 that you would need 8 geared tanks for that one fight...so that ppl had time to prepare...or did that come as a shock and cockblocked guilds. Which means we are anyhow back at everyone already having all the info and done the fight so much.
    Sure. Naxx will be closed in the first day. But, I hope, not every boss will be just rushed and one-shotted like BWL.

  11. #451
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    I've not seen anyone claim this. Perhaps you can't spot sarcasm?

    We knew private servers were tuned harder, and they were easy as well.

    Anyway comparing Classic to actual vanilla content at the time is idiotic. We have 1.12 talents, 1.12 gear, loads of R14 running around before BWL is even out, loads of people flasking which was not common at all and using every possible buff. It was obvious how easy it was going to be, all we could hope for was Blizz buff the content, but they were fairly clear they weren't.
    Did you miss the constant threads since Classic got announced with private server clowns claiming that Vanilla/Classic is so much harder than live?
    Monkashuffle
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    Ravencrest-EU

  12. #452
    Gz Calamity, #1 guild of classic!

  13. #453
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkusa View Post
    Hold up, BWL is first being released now? Hell was there to do on Classic up until this point? Not trying to sound like an ass, just curious.
    15 years ago we had far less access to statistics and numerical values of gear and encounters. A lot of it was touch-and-go, trial-and-error, and theorizing instead of calculating. That's why people say it was "difficult" back then- The lack of experience + the lack of readily accessible information. There was no wowhead, we had thottbot where the top comments were "hunter weapon" and "longer than your average cape or cloak".

    Then as time passed, wowhead was like BEGONE, THOTTBOT and took over as the most complete wow database, and as the internet evolved, communication and readily accesible information became easier and more streamlined.

    Imagine going in blind to a raiding instance now; except... It'll always be on 'Mythic' difficulty, since it'll be on the only one difficulty, which would be the hardest difficulty by default. There would not have been a proper PTR server for it. Encounters would be unknown, untested by players. There would be no Dungeon Journal laying down the fights for you. No youtube how-to's by fatboss or what have you. Every pull you make, you learn by doing. You encounter things as they appear-- and wipe the floor with you, and you learn and adapt. Every corner you turn you see something new to deal with. What *are* those pillars and how do we avoid them, we're slowed to a crawl? Wait, a rogue can disable them with Disable Trap.

    That's why it all took so long back then. Not because it was technically hard, but because it was new, often untested, and you spent time learning by trial and error.

    It's knowing all this that made me uninterested in classic. I've done it all before when it was *actually* new, and I know how learning-by-doing created camraderie and bred actual teamwork in guilds. And how slowly but surely everyone *had* to improve; from the 20-25 people who were simply tag-alongs in Molten Core, only 5ish or so remained by the time you'd finally reach Naxxramas, if your guild reached Naxxramas at all.
    I did not hit that snowmound, it's not true! It's bullshit, I did not hit it. I did NAHT.
    Oh hai Yeti

  14. #454
    Where is the guy who said they are going to buff BWL now? Its same as expected.

  15. #455
    Herald of the Titans Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FanaticDreamer View Post
    I can't speak on the difficulty of retail's raids because I don't raid in retail currently. Unlike a lot of people in this thread, I try not to speak on things I know little about. :P

    But for the areas I *do* have experience in? It's not even a question that Classic is more difficult.






    Nothing you've said in any way contradicts my argument?
    So, let me get this straight. You openly admit you have no idea what the difficultly of retail raiding is like, say you try not to speak about things you know little about, then go on to say that Classic is more difficult despite not knowing how difficult retail is? I really hope this is a troll post.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    Congratulations Apes, stellar as usual.
    Yeah gratz. All those years of practise and you didn't choke at all. Gratz on third
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by fjeenzy View Post
    Guilds had an idea about being forced to use 6-8 tanks, but I don't think it was until the first few guilds reached it, that the rest knew you needed 8 tanks. We killed Kel'thuzad world #90 and we got the info about 4h and needing 8 tanks about 2 weeks prior to reaching them.

    I can near guarantee you Naxx will fall about as easy as bwl/mc. I do not pay much attention to the meaningless discussions about vanilla being hard or not. We lacked many things in vanilla that many has now, a few of them being correct specs, knowledge about the game/classes, full consumables, absolute disgusting amounts of world buffs and the right itemization.
    Well truth is you only need 4 tanks tops even for 4 horseman, unless you are using some odd very inefficient tactic. You never needed 8 tanks there.

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Yeah gratz. All those years of practise and you didn't choke at all. Gratz on third
    Only thing one should care about in classic is clear time.
    Quote Originally Posted by arr0gance View Post
    Maybe they can poll the AI and figure out why their game sucks.

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by vsb View Post
    Sure. Naxx will be closed in the first day. But, I hope, not every boss will be just rushed and one-shotted like BWL.
    It will be even faster.

    Its basic math, some of the top DPS recorded in 2006 was 1.2-1.5k, people are already doing 2.3k, to tank and spank situations, and not 1 overgeared gnome, or an Ignite stealing fire mage, all of them are doing it.

    You can check the average log, in only MC/Rank14/BWL gear, they are pulling numbers only 1 overgeared Naxxramas person did in 2006 cause knowledge.

    Even less good guilds cleared most of Naxx with the raid being 80% clueless, with 300ms, they just logged on 4-5 nights a week.

    The bosses will melt in no time, with the knowledge these dudes have.

    The difficulty in Vanilla was not disconnecting for a full raid period.
    Last edited by potis; 2020-02-13 at 10:58 AM.

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    Only thing one should care about in classic is clear time.
    Because APES lost? Sure speedruns are the only real challenge in Classic, but if you for a second believe they didn't rush to get WF, you're delusional.

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