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  1. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    Less than an hour? Jesus, they must have had perfect optimal damage and no mistakes.

    Does Nef still insta gib you without shadow flame cloak? Or does 1.12 HP #s allow you to survive? And how did they clear the suppression rooms in under 20 min? Do they have a video?
    Imagine doing Uldir on normal mode using Mythic Eternal Palace gear, that's pretty much what it felt like. They STEAMROLLED through it and ignored all abilities almost. Bosses died within a minute, HP of the bosses just melted.

    It wasn't even fun to watch, honestly. Bosses should technically last 5-8 minutes. Not < 1 minute.

  2. #562
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    Less than an hour? Jesus, they must have had perfect optimal damage and no mistakes.

    Does Nef still insta gib you without shadow flame cloak? Or does 1.12 HP #s allow you to survive? And how did they clear the suppression rooms in under 20 min? Do they have a video?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SRBP10DTcE

    They all had cloaks. They used rogues to disarm the stuff in the suppression rooms and they spammed sappers if they started to get overwhelmed on trash.

  3. #563
    Alright, time to move the goal once more. MC BWL don’t count , AQ will be the real challenge ?!

  4. #564
    Quote Originally Posted by ryjkur View Post
    Ny'alotha WF race is over and it's time to another race.
    Original BWL lasted 3.5 months but with better experience it'll probably take 4-5 days.

    What do you think will top Classic guilds gather to play in same place and have retail like event etc like we had in Ny'alotha and Molten Core race?
    We had Method hosting world first MC race but I haven't heard anything about them hosting BWL race.
    1 hour and 21 mins.... lol

    I love that you thought it was going to last 4-5 days, and defended your logic, even though it was wrong, many times in this thread. lol Everyone told you otherwise, but like a flat-earther, you held true to your belief. Kudos. lol

  5. #565
    Quote Originally Posted by gobarj View Post
    Imagine doing Uldir on normal mode using Mythic Eternal Palace gear, that's pretty much what it felt like. They STEAMROLLED through it and ignored all abilities almost. Bosses died within a minute, HP of the bosses just melted.

    It wasn't even fun to watch, honestly. Bosses should technically last 5-8 minutes. Not < 1 minute.
    Bosses in vanilla in general had very few mechanics. There are also a lot of glass cannon gear you can get in vanilla due to item budget. BWL items are still of higher ilvl compared to everything else barring Rag and HWL weapons, but because a lot of is "wasted" on stats like Stam.

    Expect bosses to just fall over in 2-3 minutes even for AQ and Naxx.

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    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    1 hour and 21 mins.... lol

    I love that you thought it was going to last 4-5 days, and defended your logic, even though it was wrong, many times in this thread. lol Everyone told you otherwise, but like a flat-earther, you held true to your belief. Kudos. lol
    at least he didn't abandon thread immediately and acknowledged that he was very wrong, with the afterthought of "AQ and Naxx will be interesting" (they won't be, but hey whatever)

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by ryjkur View Post
    8/8 Nefarian down, well this didn't go as I expected. 41 minutes until release and BWL is cleared.

    Well, AQ40 will be interesting and Naxx for sure.
    Admittedly, this is quicker than I expected too - really amazing showing by the top guilds. By the time my guild cleared - within the first 6 hours after release (we weren't rushing to get in asap, just regular raid time) there were nearly 400 world-wide clears. We were 168 US/6 Server. Truly amazing to see how quick, and how many clears, BWL has been so far.

    Now, this all being said - AQ40 and Naxx should be different. The numbers and mechanics in AQ40 are a big leap up. Not all bosses, but beyond some tougher mechanics, there are resist-requirements, much more bosses, much more trash, and a much larger raid environment. Things should be different. However, I still bet top guilds who have run on pservs will clear on day 1. Practice and planning make all the difference. I expect my guild to need two days for AQ, and depending on how rough C'thun actually is, and how coordinated we are, possibly more. Should see a big difficulty ramp by then.

  7. #567
    At least it was really a race. Was a dead heat too. Awesome.

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    Bosses in vanilla in general had very few mechanics. There are also a lot of glass cannon gear you can get in vanilla due to item budget. BWL items are still of higher ilvl compared to everything else barring Rag and HWL weapons, but because a lot of is "wasted" on stats like Stam.

    Expect bosses to just fall over in 2-3 minutes even for AQ and Naxx.

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    at least he didn't abandon thread immediately and acknowledged that he was very wrong, with the afterthought of "AQ and Naxx will be interesting" (they won't be, but hey whatever)
    You're right, very few folks often accept outcomes like this.

    And yeah, AQ40 "MIGHT" be an issue, depending on what version of C'Thun we get. I remember during Vanilla, we killed everything but him, and never actually had a kill on him before we moved on to Naxx. But I don't think they would release the version that was unkillable, people would flip the fuck out. lol

  9. #569
    Haha you can flame me all you want, but I'd rather enjoy and do the raid in our own pace, rather than doing it in one night. What are you going to do for the following 6 months? the same content over and over? settle down nerds.

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanegasi View Post
    They're also technically 2nd because the first two tied for first.
    I'm being a pedant here but....when 2 teams/players tie for 1st, then next best score/time is 'technically' 3rd.

    Anyway, this whole thread is hilarious and incredibly entertaining. We all knew BWL would be cleared quickly with guilds having coordination and gear that obviously wasn't being accounted for by some people.
    ~steppin large and laughin easy~

  11. #571
    Legendary! Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    I think it's time we stop pretending Classic will ever be hard. MC was cleared in one week and that's accounting for people getting to 58? 60? before getting in. It was entirely expected for BWL to be cleared in one hour tops.
    AQ, ZG and Naxx will all go the same route. Classic is not hard. It is, however, still a very fun experience. Let's enjoy it for what it is instead of putting 2 and a half mechanics per boss as the pinnacle of impossible progression.

  12. #572
    Naxxramas was speedrun on private servers in ~1 hr 30 minutes. My bet it will be done by APES in 1 hr 10 minutes on first/second run. Sub-1 hour in clean subsequent ones. Given its Classic and given the minority will achieve that, there's no sense whatsoever in running anything below Naxxramas as it is.

    Get rid of your rose-colored glasses and enjoy the game for what it is supposed to be - fun and player interaction. There are other competetive games out there that make that aspect way more joyful and meaningful.

  13. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by awadh View Post
    the average classic raider is an absolute fucking trashcan shitter that wouldn't clear heroic retail week1, that's why they struggle in fuckin classic raids, they are piss easy and that is a fact, FACT and once again FACTTTTTT
    Damn, who pissed on your chips?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pebbleton View Post
    I think it's time we stop pretending Classic will ever be hard. MC was cleared in one week and that's accounting for people getting to 58? 60? before getting in. It was entirely expected for BWL to be cleared in one hour tops.
    AQ, ZG and Naxx will all go the same route. Classic is not hard. It is, however, still a very fun experience. Let's enjoy it for what it is instead of putting 2 and a half mechanics per boss as the pinnacle of impossible progression.
    Pretty much, it's not hard, but it's better than retail because it's actually fun and is back to WoW's roots. I used to raid hardcore from middle of Wrath and all through Cata and I'm still finding Classic really fun, no matter how simple it is

  14. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by MrHorner View Post
    Haha you can flame me all you want, but I'd rather enjoy and do the raid in our own pace, rather than doing it in one night. What are you going to do for the following 6 months? the same content over and over? settle down nerds.
    Nice try, casual.

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Ok take vael for example. Aoe fire dmg, dragon abilities so stand on side, when you get the debuff run out of raid. Easy peasy.

    When you execute the strat though, a lot of things could go wrong. Healers have 70% spell pushback ignore chance. Didnt take into account that heals could come out late. Do paladins use conc aura to help, or keep up fire res aura to help with the dmg itself. How many healers assigned to the tank? Should healers all be in 1 group with a priest so priest can PoH them up so they can focus on raid / tank? How much FR, mitigation, threat gear should the tank wear so you can balance incoming damage with how much dmg the dps can do before ripping aggro. Are the dps who have never done the fight gonna not get 3 insta shadowbolt crits in a row and pull aggro? Are we gonna get an unlucky timing of the debuff that hits on someone when they are already low hp? Will offtanks manage to stay 2nd on threat so they can take over when needed?

    It's easy, but dont pretend like theres nothing that goes into it.
    I mean, I can make a write-up twice as long for normal Wrathion by artificially inserting problems, but that wouldn't change the fact that it's a mostly faceroll fight and that standing in the fire is the only thing that can realistically kill you. Tanking BWL is stupid easy given that my 14 years old self did it back in vanilla with little incidents, let's not make "keep the tanks alive!" anymore of a problem than it is in retail.

    Normal N'zoth alone is a more difficult fight (both numbers and mechanics wise) than anything in Classic save C'thun, Four Horsemen and Kel'thuzad.

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    Less than an hour? Jesus, they must have had perfect optimal damage and no mistakes.

    Does Nef still insta gib you without shadow flame cloak? Or does 1.12 HP #s allow you to survive? And how did they clear the suppression rooms in under 20 min? Do they have a video?
    It wasn't just one guild. There's 26 guilds right now that have logs for the whole raid less than one hour. The fastest clear being 32mins from the moment they entered the raid.

    Nef barely took 2 mins. Actually, not even 2 mins.
    Last edited by tikcol; 2020-02-13 at 05:26 PM.

  17. #577
    Quote Originally Posted by Zalamander View Post
    Well truth is you only need 4 tanks tops even for 4 horseman, unless you are using some odd very inefficient tactic. You never needed 8 tanks there.
    The majority of guilds back in vanilla iirc used this "odd" very inefficent tactic, including us. Are you looking to be pretentious?
    <Progress> - Firemaw EU

  18. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    I mean, I can make a write-up twice as long for normal Wrathion by artificially inserting problems, but that wouldn't change the fact that it's a mostly faceroll fight and that standing in the fire is the only thing that can realistically kill you. Tanking BWL is stupid easy given that my 14 years old self did it back in vanilla with little incidents, let's not make "keep the tanks alive!" anymore of a problem than it is in retail.

    Normal N'zoth alone is a more difficult fight (both numbers and mechanics wise) than anything in Classic save C'thun, Four Horsemen and Kel'thuzad.
    My 14 year old self did it back then too. And I'm once again saying that I never claimed classic was hard. I'm just saying that it's not as easy as ppl are claiming when they say "lol 43 mins". Get to 60, join a bwl pug, smash your face on the keyboard, upload the vid and prove it's that easy. I'll be awaiting your 43 min clear with no wipes.

  19. #579
    Top guild on my server had a private server setup to practise BWL months ago. Im sure theyre not the only ones.

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by ryjkur View Post
    8/8 Nefarian down, well this didn't go as I expected. 41 minutes until release and BWL is cleared.

    Well, AQ40 will be interesting and Naxx for sure.
    No "first" will be interesting, because it won't be a "first".
    The "first" rush is about the ability of top guild to LEARN AND PRACTICE the fight. They spend a week or two repeating it to find the good tactics and then fine-tuning them.
    The fights in Classic have been known for 15 years and the pserver crowd has practiced them for years on end. Not weeks, YEARS. The challenge will only be how fast they can apply their already-completed training. So no, no raid will take more than the first few hours, and that's being generous.

    Of course, for regular players, AQ40 will be challenging and Naxx will be hard. But for people who have world-level skill and years of training and know all the preparation they require in advance ? If THEY had a hard time, then it would mean that no average human could actually clear the raid.

    Notice that it also means that it's stupid to laugh at "how easy" Vanilla raids were, because of 1) said preparation, 2) MC was the easiest raid and BWL barely harder and 3) they were tuned for gear and talents vastly lower than what we have now. Nobody would expect Method to have a hard time re-clearing G'huun, so why would APES have trouble facerolling BWL, or AQ, or Naxx ?
    Last edited by Akka; 2020-02-13 at 05:32 PM.

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