BWL world first progression thread

[Argorwal]

Uhh, your logic fails when you are ignoring the fact that the people who cleared are hardcore vanilla fanatics who have studied and number crunched how to complete content the fastest.

I highly doubt your standard group of players who say, started in retail would have been able to achieve such a feat.

I used this analogy before, but what you're doing is like me, someone who has never performed surgery, saying that surgery is easy because a trained surgeon can do it. Just because someone can do something doesn't mean *everyone* can.

Just because these people who have studied the game thoroughly and most of them have lots of experience clearing classic content can do BWL in less than an hour, does by no means mean the average player can do so. Nor does it mean the content is trivial or that people who said Classic was more difficult are incorrect.

Dude, the raid has been out for less than 5 hours and there are at the time of me typing this 272 recorded 8/8 BWL clears on Warcraftlogs.com.

What are you smoking that it isn't a joke?

[arkanon]

Nor does it mean the content is trivial or that people who said Classic was more difficult are incorrect.

So you agree that classic raids are objectively more difficult than retail, and that the top players in retail would have a tough time clearing BWL in 1 hour?

Because reading your post, it absolutely seems that is what you are saying, but you are not willing to commit to it, so instead you use vague language like "the people who say these things are not wrong" - which just feels like a REALLY soft way of saying "this is what i believe"

[sunxsera]

Agree. This seems like a ploy by retail players and guild to make Classic seem easier than it is actually is. It is definitely harder than retail.

You can ´t be serious ...

[arkanon]

You can ´t be serious ...

Some groups are already clearing with 30-35 players.

[Daara]

Agree. This seems like a ploy by retail players and guild to make Classic seem easier than it is actually is. It is definitely harder than retail.

Mythic raids are much more difficult than anything in Vanilla. There are really only like 4-5 tough fights in classic and all but 1 are in Naxx. I don't think any of these top classic guilds would compete with Method or Limit in retail. I could be wrong though, they are good players but they are doing it against bosses with 15 years of experience and knowledge.

[WskyDK]

Mythic raids are much more difficult than anything in Vanilla. There are really only like 4-5 tough fights in classic and all but 1 are in Naxx. I don't think any of these top classic guilds would compete with Method or Limit in retail. I could be wrong though, they are good players but they are doing it against bosses with 15 years of experience and knowledge.

Mythic zero dungeons are more difficult than anything in vanilla.

[Xath]

you played world of warcraft. not world of warcraft: classic

this was literally the first completion of this raid within this game.

Completing a raid in an easier patch with better gear than was available then isn't really noteworthy.

[WskyDK]

Completing a raid in an easier patch with better gear than was available then isn't really noteworthy.

It's noteworthy to the people playing the same game.

[Afenar]

There must've been a stealth nerf to BWL. Or some kind of an exploit. I can't see a legit guild clearing the raid this fast. There is something else going on. Some kind of sabotage from a competitor?

no, there wasn't any stealth nerf, vanilla just casual, that's it

[OrcsRLame]

Completing a raid in an easier patch with better gear than was available then isn't really noteworthy.

That's what people said about MC. It died as soon as people could get attuned. Then people said, just you wait for BWL. That will be the hard one. Cleared in under an hour. The goalposts were moved. Now once again, people like you are moving the goalposts.

Eventually Naxx will be out, and people like you will be out of excuses when it all dies in one day.

[Drusin]

Completing a raid in an easier patch with better gear than was available then isn't really noteworthy.

Will Naxx being cleared on day 1 be noteworthy?

[Ielenia]

Uhh, your logic fails when you are ignoring the fact that the people who cleared are hardcore vanilla fanatics who have studied and number crunched how to complete content the fastest.

I highly doubt your standard group of players who say, started in retail would have been able to achieve such a feat.

I used this analogy before, but what you're doing is like me, someone who has never performed surgery, saying that surgery is easy because a trained surgeon can do it. Just because someone can do something doesn't mean *everyone* can.

Just because these people who have studied the game thoroughly and most of them have lots of experience clearing classic content can do BWL in less than an hour, does by no means mean the average player can do so. Nor does it mean the content is trivial or that people who said Classic was more difficult are incorrect.

Players who only do LFR? Yes, I agree.

But players in modern WoW who raid heroic? I honestly doubt those would have much trouble (if at all) in Classic raids.

[Poe]

Will Naxx being cleared on day 1 be noteworthy?

Yes

Might take longer than 40 minutes but it will be done day 1.

[LionSinMaikeru]

So you agree that classic raids are objectively more difficult than retail, and that the top players in retail would have a tough time clearing BWL in 1 hour?

Because reading your post, it absolutely seems that is what you are saying, but you are not willing to commit to it, so instead you use vague language like "the people who say these things are not wrong" - which just feels like a REALLY soft way of saying "this is what i believe"

I can't speak on the difficulty of retail's raids because I don't raid in retail currently. Unlike a lot of people in this thread, I try not to speak on things I know little about. :P

But for the areas I *do* have experience in? It's not even a question that Classic is more difficult.

Dude, the raid has been out for less than 5 hours and there are at the time of me typing this 272 recorded 8/8 BWL clears on Warcraftlogs.com.

What are you smoking that it isn't a joke?

Nothing you've said in any way contradicts my argument?

[NoiseTank13]

no, there wasn't any stealth nerf, vanilla just casual, that's it

Winner winner chicken dinner.

There was a reason why OG Everquest players saw the demise of their game- Vanilla WoW was much easier and forgiving and a lot more casual friendly.

[lollerlaban]

4 bosses down already, but early bosses are always easy

Nice meme there

[Tonkaden]

Remember all the people who were like "lol all the Wrathbabies and Cata scrubs are gonna be in for a surprise with Classic" nonstop?

To be fair this was done on 1.12 and not on 1.6.

Most pservers players never experienced MC or BWL on their release patches.

BWL released today with the classes the way they were on 1.6 and with the fear the way it was on 1.5 wouldn’t have speed ran shit lol.

We, just like every pserver as well, are on an overpowered patch. It’s that simple. Yea it would still get cleared , but you wouldn’t see 25 minute MCs on 1.3 or 32 minute BWLs on 1.6.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Yo, I heard World of Warcraft Classic was going to be included in the next GamesDoneQuick!

[Tonkaden]

Mythic raids are much more difficult than anything in Vanilla. There are really only like 4-5 tough fights in classic and all but 1 are in Naxx. I don't think any of these top classic guilds would compete with Method or Limit in retail. I could be wrong though, they are good players but they are doing it against bosses with 15 years of experience and knowledge.

There are leveling dungeons with more mechanics than vanilla raids.

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It's noteworthy to the people playing the same game.

Uh it’s not really noteworthy at all. If the game had any challenge it would be noteworthy.

This is like Usain Bolt winning the special Olympics 100m.

Just Stahp.

[Xath]

Will Naxx being cleared on day 1 be noteworthy?

Not really the most time spent is coming up with tactics following ready made ones isn't note worthy

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That's what people said about MC. It died as soon as people could get attuned. Then people said, just you wait for BWL. That will be the hard one. Cleared in under an hour. The goalposts were moved. Now once again, people like you are moving the goalposts.

Eventually Naxx will be out, and people like you will be out of excuses when it all dies in one day.

Not really I don't expect anything will be challenging they have been doing these fights for 15 years and are on 1.12 it's kind of a joke honestly.

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It's noteworthy to the people playing the same game.

No it's honestly not BWL is puggable with the level of hear available and the patch talents are on.