BWL world first progression thread

[Nite92]

???

In Classic there was actually danger in open world. They nerfed a lot of the difficulty over time.



You can choose to deny this to suit your narrative if you want.

Sure, go ahead and imply that I have no experience with Classic. I am about to ding 60 for the 4th time since classic has launched. Most of my deaths are due to respawns and miss/dodge/resist streaks. These things are random, and you accept those deaths by not regenerating to full hp/mana each pull.

So it is about what your definition of difficulty is. It is fucking easy to kill a mob, or do you argue that mind blast, swp wand to death or spamming SS and eviscerate to death is difficult? But you yourself, can change the action of killing mobs to make it faster, by increasing the difficulty. Which means that, in my opinion, the content is not difficult, but you engage it in a more difficult way.

[ryjkur]

Calamity and Progress got world first but APES performed better.

Bad luck with server issues but shit happens and time to move on.

[LionSinMaikeru]

This is a thread about raiding, so I assumed that was the topic.

Even if you have raided on retail, when was that? Raids have a lot more going on mechanically than back in WoTLK or Cata.

And lastly, nothing in classic is more difficult than retail. Some things like leveling/questing are equally easy, but even then some quest mobs have more mechanics than Classic raid bosses. Tedious doesn't equal difficulty. Retail isn't exactly difficult until you're pushing 15+ or mythic raids, but at least it has that option. Nothing in classic is difficult, just tedious.

My apologies for my tone then, I thought I cleared up that fact in my post.

I disagree entirely with your premise that *nothing* in classic is more difficult than retail.

Using tedious is a weak argument because that's subjective. Tedious is something that is long/monotonous. What you find monotonous isn't necessarily what I would, or vice-versa. It's just a buzzword to dismiss something you don't find relevant, IMO.

Like you brought up raids having more mechanics than WoTLK/Cata. I could dismiss that and say more mechanics =/= difficulty because the gear has gotten much more easier to obtain than in Classic - like today you'd be hard pressed to find someone jumping into a raid without full purples. Where-as in Classic, it wasn't uncommon for someone to have mostly greens before jumping into a raid.

So it really falls down to personal opinion.

Sure, go ahead and imply that I have no experience with Classic. I am about to ding 60 for the 4th time since classic has launched. Most of my deaths are due to respawns and miss/dodge/resist streaks. These things are random, and you accept those deaths by not regenerating to full hp/mana each pull.

So it is about what your definition of difficulty is. It is fucking easy to kill a mob, or do you argue that mind blast, swp wand to death or spamming SS and eviscerate to death is difficult? But you yourself, can change the action of killing mobs to make it faster, by increasing the difficulty. Which means that, in my opinion, the content is not difficult, but you engage it in a more difficult way.

I wasn't trying to imply anything. I'm simply disagreeing with your premise or implication that there wasn't difficulty in open-world Classic WoW.

As you said in your post - you have died in Classic WoW multiple times, yes? I can't remember the last time I've died in retail, outside of raiding in Legion. The game has become stupidly easy and there are so many "oh s***" buttons to hit and gear is stupidly easy to get the content becomes a joke.

Sure, killing a single mob is trivial in Classic. But taking on multiple mobs at the same / higher level? Not going to happen unless you're either extremely skilled or have the proper gear + potions. Where-as in Retail, I can regularly do this and quite easily so.

That's where the difficulty comes in for me. The actual sense of danger and having to think before I pull.

[Haosmash]

I want speed clears of ppl that dont use world buffs, just elixirs,flasks food

[Ghitza]

I won the WF race. Proof:

[Segus1992]

World first had a place 15 yo. And this topic was a troll post made buy a guy who thought it will take 4-5days for this rerun

Troll post? The guy genuinely believed it, no doubt. A lot of people want Classic to feel as relevant PvE-wise as Live, with progression and theorycrafting - for some it's hard to accept that literally everything about Vanilla has already been figured out and the only reason we struggled back in the day is because we sucked.

- - - Updated - - -

Calamity and Progress got world first but APES performed better.

Bad luck with server issues but shit happens and time to move on.

APES 'won' a race nobody was trying to win this week. Their run being fastest doesn't matter when everyone (including them) was trying to kill Nefarian as early as possible. Next week we can talk about speedruns, when that's what the competition is.

APES lost. There's no caveat. The most tryhard (and arrogant) guild in Classic lost, and that's fine. They can always win AQ40.

[Caprias]

Can't wait for the next raids when the "ITs bEcAuSE 1.12 tAlEnTs" card doesn't count anymore.

[Segus1992]

I want speed clears of ppl that dont use world buffs, just elixirs,flasks food

But why tho. Using world buffs means they have fewer opportunities to practice, and it's more of an "all or nothing" run when they actually have them. Much more exciting that way, no?

- - - Updated - - -

Can't wait for the next raids when the "ITs bEcAuSE 1.12 tAlEnTs" card doesn't count anymore.

Eh, I mean, if anyone still believes 1.12 talents are what make the difference between 77 day release to WF to 42 minutes release to WF, they won't admit they're wrong even when Naxx is cleared in the first few hours.

[facefist]

apes so mad that they need to lie in YouTube titles about being world 1st lol. Many times luck is a factor in competitions, this time it was not on their side and they just gotta live with it. Play a game that is actually hard if you dont want luck to be a big factor.

[Deng]

I don't understand the confusion about speed runs and the first kill.
The first kill (as comical as it sounds in Classic) was about that first kill and it was only available once. For me it's not about "who can do it faster in the future" even if that future is 3 minutes away.
Speed runs on the other hand are always available and everyone is invited to try and beat the APES' time anytime they want (and I'm pretty sure it will be beaten many times including by APES themselves).

[Xjev]

Can't wait for the next raids when the "ITs bEcAuSE 1.12 tAlEnTs" card doesn't count anymore.

Limit and Method can clear any BfA mythic raid in 2 hours now, does it mean its easy for me and you?

[Millyraynge]

(as comical as it sounds in Classic)

since classic is released in 2019 and no one have ever cleared bwl in classic before, I guess firstkill is the correct term.

The fact that anyone knows what happens in bwl only changes the way how the race can be won.

[Raelbo]

APES lost. There's no caveat. The most tryhard (and arrogant) guild in Classic lost, and that's fine. They can always win AQ40.

I honestly don't care about Classic World First races or who won or lost.

But honestly, all this fighting for what? The race itself was basically a joke and the results utterly meaningless. Three guilds cleared the instance in less than 43 minutes with a mere 8 seconds separating them. That margin falls well within the threshold of luck where things like loading screen times - or which server went live first - can make the difference.

If a race is going to come down to seconds, then it needs to follow a format like that of M+ where you have a countdown timer and a stopwatch measuring the time from when you cross the start line....

[Vampyrr]

I mean what APES did was certainly impressive with how far behind they were. However Nef itself was a straight race. According to kill times

A dragon for all dragonflights, Chromaggus succumbed to:

Calamity from Mograine (Europe) at 23:37:12 UTC
APES from Gehennas (Europe) at 23:37:12 UTC

They were killed at the same exact time so Nefarion was as close as possible and they lost in seconds.

[Caprias]

Limit and Method can clear any BfA mythic raid in 2 hours now, does it mean its easy for me and you?

Yes, bwl is easy for me and if your IQ is above room temperature it should be for you too.
However with that comparison i question that.

[Segus1992]

I honestly don't care about Classic World First races or who won or lost.

But honestly, all this fighting for what? The race itself was basically a joke and the results utterly meaningless. Three guilds cleared the instance in less than 43 minutes with a mere 8 seconds separating them. That margin falls well within the threshold of luck where things like loading screen times - or which server went live first - can make the difference.

If a race is going to come down to seconds, then it needs to follow a format like that of M+ where you have a countdown timer and a stopwatch measuring the time from when you cross the start line....

Why are you asking me? I'm not the one arguing against the results because I wanted X to win. I'm just saying the results are the results. I don't really care who won.

[RoKPaNda]

i highly doubt that but who knows

Why would you doubt that? They're still very simple bosses mechanically, and these people still have years of experience killing them.

[Raelbo]

Why are you asking me? I'm not the one arguing against the results because I wanted X to win. I'm just saying the results are the results. I don't really care who won.

Because you're the one going on about how "APES lost. There's no caveat". It's asinine.

[facefist]

I just dunno how people are claiming that APES did NOT lose? This thread is worlds first progression thread, not worlds fastest clear time thread. Its a different race, and it is obvious that they wanted to get world first but did not quite get it (whatever the reason).

If a race is going to come down to seconds, then it needs to follow a format like that of M+ where you have a countdown timer and a stopwatch measuring the time from when you cross the start line....

Why? MDI is completely different from world first high keys which people are still going for. There is no way that the MDI concept in vanilla would gather any interest so just treat them as two different races. A lot of competitive events are decided by luck (sports, poker, pretty much every e-sport..), so luck is almost always a factor and it doesn't make someones victory any less meaningful.

[david0925]

Limit and Method can clear any BfA mythic raid in 2 hours now, does it mean its easy for me and you?

not necessarily, but that's also a loaded question because once a dungeon is on farm, almost every instance of similar boss count take the same amount of time. That doesn't mean their difficulty is the same.

is having 1446 final boss kills (this is the number I see on WCL as of right now) within 3 days of release indicative of the instance being too easy? probably. I can imagine a world first class caliber guild that practiced a lot plowing any instance in 2 hours if they were re-released. I can't imagine having 1.5k guilds doing the same for many harder raids in the latter expansions.