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  1. #1

    Does anyone else feel this tier was just....

    Disclaimer Before I go any further, this isn't aimed at any specific guild nor is it trying to trash credit for kills - this is meant in an unbiased way across the board of every guild currently raiding in WoW Disclaimer

    The above said! Anyone else feels this tier was just Pay2Win, Buggy, Underwhelming, Untested, Rushed out of the gates mess?

    I just can't help but feel seeing multiple guilds using ilvl 400-415 items that straight up outperform 460+ pieces was just a terrible design decision. I can understand them wanting to test Corruption, they're likely looking for a new system for Shadowlands and using Corruption as a basis for that since Titanforged is gone now seems like the most logical choice, the timing and delivery, however, was terrible.


    /Discuss (in a civil manner hopefully)



    Also! the N'zoth fight design was worse than Madness of Deathwing
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

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  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Vynestra's Avatar
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    I don't think it was pay2win at all, there were 3 boe slots for some classes, and only 2 for others.

    While it helped - It's clear the winner would've won w/o it with how well they played and the evolution of high end raiding (ie: having a coach).

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    I don't think it was pay2win at all, there were 3 boe slots for some classes, and only 2 for others.

    While it helped - It's clear the winner would've won w/o it with how well they played and the evolution of high end raiding (ie: having a coach).
    I suppose what I mean is, rather than looking to raid upgrades, you look to AH upgrades or even WQ upgrades which let's be honest if you're a mythic raider, WQ's should never be an upgrade this far into an expac.
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

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  4. #4
    I am Murloc!
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    Considering that best guilds in the world would have bought the most overpowered items anyway - no, it wasn't pay to win. Also, the amount of bugs is being hugely overstated. Final fight had major issues, sure, but keep in mind that it was also tuned almost perfectly. There was no need for any significant nerfs to make "just barely" killable for best players in the world within two resets and buying out tons of BoEs. Beyond that, carapace had some minor issue with sanity draining and couple bosses had extra hitpoints added in, but other than that, most of the stuff worked fine.

    The extreme majority of raiders will never experience any of those bugs and hotfixing final bosses was pretty standard in every tier. Most of the time, they require major nerfs before they are even killable, which are stretch across multiple days - also inflating the pull timer and making it seem more awesome than it really was. Corruption is receiving another round of hotfixes next reset and perhaps even more later on.

  5. #5
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turaska View Post
    Disclaimer Before I go any further, this isn't aimed at any specific guild nor is it trying to trash credit for kills - this is meant in an unbiased way across the board of every guild currently raiding in WoW Disclaimer

    The above said! Anyone else feels this tier was just Pay2Win, Buggy, Underwhelming, Untested, Rushed out of the gates mess?

    I just can't help but feel seeing multiple guilds using ilvl 400-415 items that straight up outperform 460+ pieces was just a terrible design decision. I can understand them wanting to test Corruption, they're likely looking for a new system for Shadowlands and using Corruption as a basis for that since Titanforged is gone now seems like the most logical choice, the timing and delivery, however, was terrible.


    /Discuss (in a civil manner hopefully)



    Also! the N'zoth fight design was worse than Madness of Deathwing
    Its cute when people say 'pay2win' without actually understanding what pay2win means.

    Mythic/top-tier guilds have ALWAYS gotten powerful items from AH, there are even instances of those guilds harassing and abusing other people for bidding on them. So yeah, getting items from AH with in-game currency has been a thing for a long time.

    As for N'zoth himself, you're entitled to your opinion but I personally enjoyed killing him (disappointing cinematic notwithstanding) far more than Deathwing.

    People like you need to learn that there is a difference between your opinion, and the actual state of a thing.
    Last edited by Mirishka; 2020-02-09 at 05:29 AM.

  6. #6
    Immortal callipygoustp's Avatar
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    The level of P2W has never been higher! For god's sake, I got another free mount simply for subscribing for 6 months. As a result, I am dominating!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    The level of P2W has never been higher! For god's sake, I got another free mount simply for subscribing for 6 months. As a result, I am dominating!
    Ye, or you sell your car and buy boe's and do 3 times as much damage. Back in the days buying powerups for real money was called p2w.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Turaska View Post
    I suppose what I mean is, rather than looking to raid upgrades, you look to AH upgrades or even WQ upgrades which let's be honest if you're a mythic raider, WQ's should never be an upgrade this far into an expac.
    Honestly, I think everything should be a possible upgrade. Just because you raid Mythic doesn't mean all other options should be negated. By having a possible chance at upgrades everywhere it encourages you to continue branching out into other content and gives older content longevity instead of becoming instantly useless after you hit magic numbers.

  9. #9
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    The level of P2W has never been higher! For god's sake, I got another free mount simply for subscribing for 6 months. As a result, I am dominating!
    Unbelievable! Outrageous! Unacceptable!

    /s

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Its cute when people say 'pay2win' without actually understanding what pay2win means.
    Care to elaborate upon that ?
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

    Threadripper 2950x | 32gig Corsair Dominator Platinum 3200mhz | GTX 1070 (Yes, I was stingy on the graphics card HOOOO!)

  11. #11
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Honestly, I think everything should be a possible upgrade. Just because you raid Mythic doesn't mean all other options should be negated. By having a possible chance at upgrades everywhere it encourages you to continue branching out into other content and gives older content longevity instead of becoming instantly useless after you hit magic numbers.
    Common sense and logic have no place in this conversation!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Turaska View Post
    Care to elaborate upon that ?
    Go play an actual P2W mmo (there are plenty on Steam) and educate yourself.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    The level of P2W has never been higher! For god's sake, I got another free mount simply for subscribing for 6 months. As a result, I am dominating!
    how do you sleep at night?!! you monster!

  13. #13
    Immortal callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Ye, or you sell your car and buy boe's and do 3 times as much damage. Back in the days buying powerups for real money was called p2w.
    Sold my home just so I could sub for 6months and get that sweet mount! Fear me!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    how do you sleep at night?!! you monster!
    I sleep with my mount.
    (Don't judge)

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Honestly, I think everything should be a possible upgrade. Just because you raid Mythic doesn't mean all other options should be negated. By having a possible chance at upgrades everywhere it encourages you to continue branching out into other content and gives older content longevity instead of becoming instantly useless after you hit magic numbers.
    I agree and disagree at the same time, if you could just eternally upgrade from WQ's, what would be the point in raids existing beyond bragging rights? I can see the advantage for casual players and in that regard, it would make sense, for guilds that strive to do the hardest content, however? it just seems flawed adding such powerful procs to specific items.
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

    Threadripper 2950x | 32gig Corsair Dominator Platinum 3200mhz | GTX 1070 (Yes, I was stingy on the graphics card HOOOO!)

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    Ye, or you sell your car and buy boe's and do 3 times as much damage. Back in the days buying powerups for real money was called p2w.
    buying things from players with ingame economy isnt p2w in the same sense as blizz opening corruption gear shop,calm down

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Common sense and logic have no place in this conversation!

    - - - Updated - - -



    Go play an actual P2W mmo (there are plenty on Steam) and educate yourself.
    That seems quite passive-aggressive. I'm aware what P2W is, this tier was literally that, you could buy gear better than higher-tiered raid gear, there is no more of a clear example of P2W.
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

    Threadripper 2950x | 32gig Corsair Dominator Platinum 3200mhz | GTX 1070 (Yes, I was stingy on the graphics card HOOOO!)

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    buying things from players with ingame economy isnt p2w in the same sense as blizz opening corruption gear shop,calm down
    No, not the same - but pretty close, too close.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Clozer View Post
    No, not the same - but pretty close, too close.
    Don't give Blizzard any ideas please lol
    Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers.

    Threadripper 2950x | 32gig Corsair Dominator Platinum 3200mhz | GTX 1070 (Yes, I was stingy on the graphics card HOOOO!)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Common sense and logic have no place in this conversation!
    Dang! You're right. I forgot that wasn't allowed in conversations like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turaska View Post
    I agree and disagree at the same time, if you could just eternally upgrade from WQ's, what would be the point in raids existing beyond bragging rights? I can see the advantage for casual players and in that regard, it would make sense, for guilds that strive to do the hardest content, however? it just seems flawed adding such powerful procs to specific items.
    Because you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. Let's assume corruption didn't exist to make the comparison exist and go to previous Titanforging. You are just looking and go "I could get full 485 gear from WQ and call it a day". Which you see a problem, but that isn't the case. WQ have a chance to be upgrades, but doesn't mean it is. The amount of people who get high titanforges from world quests, dungeons, etc are pretty slim. Except we see others get it and consider it the norm. If you want high level gear guaranteed then raiding accomplishes that. You get a specific item level no matter what. So if you want 485's you know you will need to raid Mythic and if something drops then it's at that level. Doing a world quest you get a specific ilvl of 410-420, but it has a chance of going higher. Doesn't mean it is guaranteed and you don't do the quest because "it'll titanforge to a 485 or whatever".

    You do it for a chance, but there is no guarantee. This is what made the system great. It gave you an incentive to go out and do the world quest that you would otherwise ignore. If you get an upgrade then great, maybe it's a replacement since you would have to roll many times for it to go from 420-485. Same concept if a heroic raider goes and helps out friends in LFR. You don't go in there looking for upgrades, but if you get one through titanforging than it is good and you feel like you were rewarded.

    The whole point is people go "OMG you can get the same ilvl as I do from raiding for doing world quests unfair!!!&^*!@" When in reality the chance is slim and incentives to help keep older content alive and give you more options than just logging on raiding and being done.

  20. #20
    corrupted boe items is pay2win. Simple as that. The guild with the most money to buy tokens get an advantage over guilds that didn't have. Both method and limit had enough to buy every piece with the best corruptions available to the classes they used

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    I don't think it was pay2win at all, there were 3 boe slots for some classes, and only 2 for others.

    While it helped - It's clear the winner would've won w/o it with how well they played and the evolution of high end raiding (ie: having a coach).
    except we had plate tanks using cloth pants etc

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