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  1. #101
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gratlim View Post
    This e-sport meta is pretty much anti-mmo for me. Both things are incompatible imo. You always had min maxers and was pretty HC myself, but never to that extend in term of server pop. It just makes things too predictable and too easy. We steamroll everything too quickly and it get boring too quickly.
    I feel you. I'm lucky in that the 'e-sport meta' isn't really prevalent on Bloodsail Buccaneers. Or maybe it is and I'm just lucky with groups, something I never take for granted. I have nothing against people who want to streamline and speedrun, but that defeats the purpose behind Classic for me, personally. I like the slower pace of gameplay (I've got carpal tunnel and my hands ache after an extended play session in retail due to the shift toward semi-twitch gameplay, as opposed to Classic's slower pace where my hands feel fine after a long play session) and the big, sprawling dungeons are meant to be explored, not sprinted through, imo. It's just a matter of finding like-minded players.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  2. #102
    I would absolutely love it, but I won't be able to enjoy it like I dit back then. Was in highschool, life was good, came back from school and never had homeworks so I could play as much as I wanted.

    Back then I saw gear differently, gear wasn't just a number to up my dps. There was this feeling when obtaining new gear that is hard to explain. Certain pieces of gear had a reputation, like if you had THAT piece of gear you were awesome and I'm pretty sure this feeling won't come back.

    Also, I already lived the adventure so there's gonna be no more surprises. Sure I'll get nostalgic and enjoy it but it's never gonna be the same I guess..

  3. #103
    wrath with last patch balance?

    well, everything raidwise would be roughly as easy as classic is now.

    The only hard fights in ulduar all got nerfed. Id expect to see alone in the darkness fall on day 1.

    Toc didnt have any hard enrage timers so it would not surprise me to see [A tribute to insanity] accomplished during the first week aswell (sorry, meant 5th week. Must have those 5 weeks of normal mode be4 all the bosses are unlocked ofc).

    ICC will be a snooze the first 9 weeks when only normal mode is availible then we will have the only raid that is even remoty tuned for the patch we are in.

    Lich king hc will be cheesed with 10-15 locks, letting ppl ignore valkyrs and gain free dps time on boss, making the enrage an easy timer to meet aswell.


    As for any other contet outside raid... we have argent crusade dailys!!!! cant wait. Uhm whatelse.. oh yeah, those new LFD-heroics... OH AND WINTERGRASP! Cant wait to play ally with 30 tenacity buffs again that doesnt scale your vehicle...

    Just as with classic wow it will be ruined because blizz is lazy and decideds to go with last patch tuning...
    Also, all dks and retris will be butthurt that all the overpowered stuff they could do in pvp in early wrath will have been already nerfed.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by MyndZero View Post
    You clearly are blinded.

    1. More content doesn't = a better game.
    2. Catch up gear is more a thing these days than it ever was back then.
    3. Easy is subjective because as with every iteration of the gear, Gear > mechanical difficulty.
    3b. I'd argue the game is easier now because every class can essentially deal with every situation thrown at it. Heck rogues can bloody self heal. The less tools you have the "harder" something is and makes you more reliant on others as a result.

    Also BFA = WOD both are the worst expansion just in opposite ways. WOD was still fun to play but you had nothing to do. BFA isn't fun to play but you have everything to do.
    wait so the nr 1 point is good for wrath but bad for wod?lol,and no..difficulty isnt subjective,the game today is HARDER than ever at endgame,thats what im talking about,wrath 90% of the raids were a joke at the TOP,bfa has had some of the hardest overall raiding content,sure there was no kiljaeden in bfa but more bosses overall harder

  5. #105
    Brewmaster CrawlFromThePit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenmaniac View Post
    Wrath is often regarded as the pinnacle of WoW, particularly on this forum. Is Wrath really as good as some of us like to remember. The release of Classic has forced some players to admit that original WoW certainly has its shortcomings. The reality is you can't relive Vanilla WoW. So one should assume that the same applies for Wrath. But is that really the case?

    I remember the first months of Wrath of the Lich King in quite some detail, perhaps better than most. The question is how would it all playout if the game was released again today. Well let's examine some of the content firstly. Northrend had some of the best leveling ever in the game, but it didn't take that long. It might take the average player only a week nowadays to ding 80. While the leveling content is fun compared to Classic, it is quite short.

    The max level content in early Wrath was as follows. The dungeons included Utgarde Keep, Azjol Nerub, The Nexus, Gundrak, The Violet Hold, Drak'tharon Keep, Ahn'kahet, Utgard Pinnacle, Halls of Stone, Halls of Lightning, and The Oculus. Some of these dungeons were very disliked by the community. Dungeons like Oculus, Nexus, Gundrak, and Violet Hold were often complained about on the forums. The dungeons were also quite easy compared to TBC dungeons. Just imagine how easy they would be if played through today. I do think that the Utgard dungeons were pretty exceptional, but overall alot of the dungeons were forgettable.

    Now for the Raid content. There were two raids. Naxxramas and The Vault of Archavon. Naxxramas was a pushover. It was considered faceroll back in 3.0. It is comparable in difficulty to some Classic WoW raids. It was that easy. Not only that, but it was a replica of a raid from Classic WoW, only now tuned for 25 players instead of 40. The reception was pretty mixed back in 3.0. Then there is the Vault of Archavon, the raid in Lake Wintergrasp. It was essentially a 3 boss encounter that players could complete once their faction controlled the Lake Wintergrasp PvP zone. The fights were all quite short and straightforward. It took about 30 minutes to finish.

    The PvP in Wrath is considered one of the high points. What was it really like though? The fastest way to get Blue PvP gear was to honor farm in Strand of the Ancients. SotA is a battleground that largely involves siege warfare. The reason it was so popular in WOTLK is because the games would end fast. Players would often avoid fights and instead focus on destorying walls with siege vehicles. You didn't actually need to fight other players, since the ultimate goal was to siege the walls of the defending team. The Lake Wintergrasp PvP zone was pretty similar. It involved a lot of siege vehicles. Some players were into that kind of thing. Arena was bursty. Players would often be 100-0'd by Retribution/DK combos. The Deathknight class was truly heroic, and quite overpowered in Arena. While there was variety of decent comps, a lot of specs were pretty unviable when compared to the power of an unholy DK.

    As fun as the leveling in Northrend was, there really wasn't that much world content. Players rarely revisited some zones. Dalaran was the main hub. It was majestic, yet at the same time cramped.There was a lot of standing around in Dalaran, no different than what you see in Orgrimmar or Stormwind in Classic. Now I know that Wrath eventually added some pretty spectacular content (Ulduar), there was definitely some disappointing additions (ToC). The Icecrown Citadel patch was pretty well received, but there was very little added to Wrath after ICC. I can't imagine being stuck in ICC for 8 months would be that fun nowadays.

    I had a lot of fun in Wrath, but I question whether that could ever be relived. Knowing what we now know.
    Did people really complain about Nexus and Gundrak? I never saw anyone complain about them, they are normal dungeons like most of them. Occulus was terrible because the dragons are not fun, hopping off and back on is annoying. Violet Hold is a waiting dungeon so it's fundamentally not fun either, understandable... but Nexus and Gundrak? Never saw one person complain about them this is the first time I read about this.

    That being said, I really don't think Wrath was technically that good. The xpack rode on the increasing hype from TBC which was better, and having Arthas as the main villain really made the xpack feel important, on top of that it was the first xpack with a new class so it felt special and fresh. But when it comes to content and gameplay it wasn't that great at all like you pointed out. Ulduar was a stand out raid, the rest was pretty normal, not bad, not particularly good.

  6. #106
    I would love Wrath. What I'd be more curious about is if the no changers who were so loud and vehement about Classic would also want Wrath with no changes, or would they push for things like no LFG or ToC not totally invalidating Ulduar, etc. and show they're nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    Trial of the Crusader was certainly the laziest, the poorest, the worst raid in warcraft history with 1 circular room for the first 4 bosses, plus a cave for the last.
    I loved ToC because there was no trash, fuck trash

    Dungeon were even more faceroll than in MOP, completely forgettable.
    When in wrath are we talking? Release day wrath heroics were more difficult than release day MoP heroics. End of xpac doesn't fucking matter because it's end of xpac stat foolery but they were equal to my knowledge besides H Halls of Reflection 1st boss if people didn't hide in the fucking corner.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    I would love Wrath. What I'd be more curious about is if the no changers who were so loud and vehement about Classic would also want Wrath with no changes, or would they push for things like no LFG or ToC not totally invalidating Ulduar, etc. and show they're nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.
    I stopped being #teamNoChanges after Blizz made fucking changes
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  8. #108
    Immortal Frozen Death Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Globi View Post
    Wut??? WOTLK is probably the worst xpac from the lore-side.
    That would be TBC, thank you very much.

  9. #109
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    I won't ever touch Classic or BC classic if they did it BUT a Wrath CLassic? HELL YES!!!!!!!

  10. #110
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    I'd play the !@#$ out of a WotLK remake. Classes were great, raids were cool (except ToC ofc) and even PvP was quite enjoyable, once DKs and Rets were reined in. Story had its silly parts, but which expansion doesn't? At least, it wasn't BfA levels of cringeyness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danuser
    we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took (...). These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.
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    BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries.

  11. #111
    If WotLK was re-released it would have the same effect Classic WoW had. People would be all hyped for it for a couple months and then they'll get bored of it and they'll realize it's not how they thought it was going to be. I called it with Classic WoW and I'm gonna call it here.

    Me, I wouldn't even have any interest in playing it. I played through that expansion already, quite thoroughly too, so I have no desire to play through it all over again.
    Last edited by Grubenwolf; 2020-02-11 at 05:05 PM.
    I'd buy that for a dollar.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Edlarel View Post
    Why would they apply the pre-cata patch to a WotLK classic server? Did they apply the BC prepatch to Classic? They would apply the final Wrath patch for balance purposes (as I even stated in my first sentence). Blood dps and unholy tank would still exist per the patch changes section. 4.0.1 was when Blood was given dedicated tanking duty. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Death_knight
    I missed that he had said that I just saw last patch before cata and assumed he wanted Cata Pre patch in Wrath. I think Wrath was perfect at release when Wild Growth had no CD on it though. Made My druid Heal main even more OP than they already were. But I loved ICC Blood DK and Miss Armor Penn.

  13. #113
    I'd be in heaven. That's for sure.

    I love WoTLK to this day.
    "There is no end to education. It is not that you read a book, pass an examination, and finish with education. The whole of life, from the moment you are born to the moment you die, is a process of learning." by Jiddu Krishnamurti, Philosopher and Educator

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    wait so the nr 1 point is good for wrath but bad for wod?lol,and no..difficulty isnt subjective,the game today is HARDER than ever at endgame,thats what im talking about,wrath 90% of the raids were a joke at the TOP,bfa has had some of the hardest overall raiding content,sure there was no kiljaeden in bfa but more bosses overall harder
    Uunat was BfAs KJ.

    All the top guilds had 750+ pulls on it and they were already gear capped.

    And because CE went away with AEP it’s probably the most exclusive CE ever. It had like 150 kills even after the nerfs.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubenwolf View Post
    If WotLK was re-released it would have the same effect Classic WoW had. People would be all hyped for it for a couple months and then they'll get bored of it and they'll realize it's not how they thought it was going to be. I called it with Classic WoW and I'm gonna call it here.

    Me, I wouldn't even have any interest in playing it. I played through that expansion already, quite thoroughly too, so I have no desire to play through it all over again.
    Ehm classic right now is what carring sub numbers even after 6 months. Thats why Blizz made decision to add new content for classic players in the future.

  16. #116
    If they were to re-release WotLK, then I’d love to see them add the scrapped Azjol-Nerub zone and raid aswell like they originally wanted. Just replace the ToC raid for Azjol-Nerub and make Anub’arak the final boss.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Ehm classic right now is what carring sub numbers even after 6 months. Thats why Blizz made decision to add new content for classic players in the future.
    Classic is not carrying subs, what crack are you smoking?

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Vankrys View Post
    I was part of a very average guild and we cleaned it the second week. One week to level up and get some gear and one week to kills 14 bosses, yup, 14.
    Trial of the Crusader was certainly the laziest, the poorest, the worst raid in warcraft history with 1 circular room for the first 4 bosses, plus a cave for the last.
    Dungeon were even more faceroll than in MOP, completely forgettable.
    I recall people were complaining trash pulls in raids and just wanted to skip to the bosses. Nothing else. That is what we got. And other people complained.

    I though some of the bosses had interesting mechanics. The Faction Champions were different. Rather fighting one or two bosses, we fought an elite group instead.

  19. #119
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    No thanks because I remember what happened after Ulduar.

    You know, LFG.
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  20. #120
    I would wait to join until ICC patch. Then I would have a wonderful time.

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