What if Blizzard Re-released Wrath of the Lich King?

[Restors]

I actually think I would really enjoy it, just as much when it was current. I've tryed to play it on private servers, but it was either poorly scripted with low population or extreme p2w, both versions were huge turn off for me.

But if Blizzard would actually re-release Wotlk, i would pay large sum of money to play it. I enjoyed every questing zone, dailies, dungeons, raids, pvp, class mechanics etc.

[Thage]

I'd be down for Wrath Classic built around 3.3, sure. People complain here about the dungeons being too easy, but I always had a blast smashing through them, and between the badge system and dungeon progression from the launch dungeons, to Trial of the Champion, to the ICC 5-mans, dungeoneers always had something new to do just as the new car smell was wearing off the current crop (side note, one of the best things Legion and BFA have done is bring back post-launch dungeons). It also represents the most 'feature complete' version of 'old WoW,' with plenty of content available at 60, 70, and 80 to play through.

That being said, my main concern for Classic expansions is that they'll force it on the existing servers rather than introduce a new server pool, since some people just want 1.13 or TBC, and having a trifecta of Classic server options would let them tap into those audiences without alienating those who want to play an earlier version of the game.

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Now, the biggest WotLK private server has around 15 000 active players (TBC has much less), so from a business perspective, these are not strategic investments for Blizzard. Surely a WotLK Classic will be a big thing for the players, but if these players are from the already existing pool of subscribers, Blizzard will never do another legacy server.

That depends. The team is obviously interested in TBC and WotLK servers, they're just hammering out the finer points of how to go about it and seeing how Classic plays out while they work on their game plan. Also, Classic servers provide a benefit for subscription retention, as during content slumps in retail, players could check out the older version(s) of the game, and time spent in the Classic servers is time spent subscribed, which helps the devs justify bigger budgets to the bean counters.

[bloodwulf]

Ah yes, the BOJ grind through 5 mans to get catch up gear. The beginning of welfare epics. Half the raids were dull as hell and/or too easy (Naxx/eye/Ony/TOGC/Ruby), and the other half were fun the first couple clears, then it was an exercise into patience to get back to the interesting or useful bosses. O yeah, make sure your gearscore is high enough to pug Violet Hold....


People don't realize that most of the common complaints of BFA, essentially started in Wrath. Welfare epics/Arbitrary scoring system for pugs/spamming 5 mans. I mean sure LK was fun the first time through, but it wasn't the high point certain rubytinted glasses wearing forum posters make it out to be.

[DarkAmbient]

I would absolutely love it. Northrend is still my favourite expansion area (except Borean Tundra, fuck that place), the dungeons are fun and the gearing system with emblems is just right. No RNG stats, no bullshit Pathfinder or allied race rep grind, no essence grind, just straightforward gear progression in an epic expansion with an epic end boss.

[tmamass]

It was essentially a 3 boss encounter that players could complete once their faction controlled the Lake Wintergrasp PvP zone. The fights were all quite short and straightforward. It took about 30 minutes to finish.

WRONG! At start it was a ONE BOSS raid, following seasons added boss 2 and 3 in there.

[Beefhammer]

If WotLK were released today you all would be quitting due to how easy it is and constant complaints about welfare epics.

[schwank05]

It would likely be released as Wrath Classic, with the effective balance patch being the last before Cataclysm, but the release structure similar to live back in the day (same as Classic Vanilla is doing). So we'd open with Naxx, Obsidian Sanctum, and Eye. Later we'd open Ulduar, followed by Trial of the Crusader, Argent tournament, and Onyxia. Finally, Ice Crown and its associated dungeons.

I look most forward to tanking as an unholy DK in ICC again

This would be a no go for me if the go with the pre CATA patch that killed off nearly every class/ spec in the game that I loved. The main reason for me to play Wrath again would be Blood DK DPS, Pre Cata patch killed that.

[Greengrim]

That depends. The team is obviously interested in TBC and WotLK servers, they're just hammering out the finer points of how to go about it and seeing how Classic plays out while they work on their game plan. Also, Classic servers provide a benefit for subscription retention, as during content slumps in retail, players could check out the older version(s) of the game, and time spent in the Classic servers is time spent subscribed, which helps the devs justify bigger budgets to the bean counters.

Of course "the team" will say "we are definitely looking into it". It's the oldest trick in the book, a simple "neither yes, nor no" answer. But I guarantee you no retail slump will ever be big enough to justify the size of money investment that will be required for development/adaptation, support, physical servers, etc. which are mandatory for the creation of a legacy realm.

And again I mention this: Classic was made not so that subbed players can stay subbed, but for 200 000 'new' players to subscribe. That's a direct 31+ mil euro injection to the turnover right there.

[Nuba]

if they made wrath with season 8 balance starting at naxx patch, there would literally be zero people playing live for its entire duration

[Thage]

Of course "the team" will say "we are definitely looking into it". It's the oldest trick in the book, a simple "neither yes, nor no" answer. But I guarantee you no retail slump will ever be big enough to justify the size of money investment that will be required for development/adaptation, support, physical servers, etc. which are mandatory for the creation of a legacy realm.

All things being equal, I doubt it takes much by way of development time. All the hard work has already been done for Classic; now the tech exists to get the old code running on the new framework, making it significantly less of an investment than Classic was.

And again I mention this: Classic was made not so that subbed players can stay subbed, but for 200 000 'new' players to subscribe. That's a direct 31+ mil euro injection to the turnover right there.

I didn't say it was, I said it was a benefit. Logically-speaking, Blizzard designed Classic and bundled it in with the BFA sub because there are more reasons to do so than not to--cross-pollinating the playerbase is a strong argument here. The longer players are kept playing, the more money they pay, either directly or indirectly via token sales. And the longer players are kept playing, the better the MAU retention looks. This also encourages players who came back for Classic to give retail a try, again boosting retention in theory.

Similarly, bringing back players who preferred WotLK and TBC, even if it's not the smash-hit audience Certain Servers Which Must Go Unnamed (for forum rules) brought to the table, brings in more subscribers and MAUs, and would give retail players more content to hit up during content lulls in retail--again, only a benefit from Blizzard's end.

Monetarily-speaking, there's not much reason not to push TBC and WotLK servers given there's less work required with all the back-end tech already present, versus the potential for player retention and keeping up MAU metrics. Especially because, in all honesty, server costs are chump change for a company Blizzard's size, doubly so when considering that you can run multiple realms on one server for older versions of the game. So you have lower development costs, comparatively-negligible server costs, and an already-existing support team and customer support team.

I'm just not seeing how these are insurmountable costs that would discourage Blizzard when they're basically a gimme for revenue.

[Alanar]

I dont think this can be relived.. same as classic, the feeling was that shit was new. Re releasing something doesnt work the way you think it will work.

I was one of the million people who was thrilled at thr blizzcon trailer and see a human dk rais3 freaking ghouls.
I was super hyped about dk and new stuff about arthas. The one dude who we still havent seen afther warcraft 3.

This hype, this feeling it will not return.

Trust me it would ruin wrath if they do this imo.

[MyndZero]

the idea that wrath is a ''pinnacle'' is pure lunacy,tbc or mop is the best wow has ever been,wrath is literaly worse than bfa,less content,extreme easy content,extreme catchup,granted i LOVED wrath when it was live,but my subjective experience doesnt blind me from the facts

You clearly are blinded.

1. More content doesn't = a better game.
2. Catch up gear is more a thing these days than it ever was back then.
3. Easy is subjective because as with every iteration of the gear, Gear > mechanical difficulty.
3b. I'd argue the game is easier now because every class can essentially deal with every situation thrown at it. Heck rogues can bloody self heal. The less tools you have the "harder" something is and makes you more reliant on others as a result.

Also BFA = WOD both are the worst expansion just in opposite ways. WOD was still fun to play but you had nothing to do. BFA isn't fun to play but you have everything to do.

[Edlarel]

This would be a no go for me if the go with the pre CATA patch that killed off nearly every class/ spec in the game that I loved. The main reason for me to play Wrath again would be Blood DK DPS, Pre Cata patch killed that.

Why would they apply the pre-cata patch to a WotLK classic server? Did they apply the BC prepatch to Classic? They would apply the final Wrath patch for balance purposes (as I even stated in my first sentence). Blood dps and unholy tank would still exist per the patch changes section. 4.0.1 was when Blood was given dedicated tanking duty. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Death_knight

[Shammyrock]

Archavon was only a single boss raid at the start of wrath no?

and a pushover given youd just run it as a random group after winning the pvp battle

[Gratlim]

Unless you can literally rewind time to 2008/9, it won't recapture the same feeling.

There would be some fun nostalgic moments, but the 2020 mentality in gaming, will just inhabit a 2009 body.

So much this. That is exactly why i quit Classic after months at 60 (and some design issue with AV).

Most players today are just turning everything into e-sport mode. Min maxin to the extreme and following an established meta / streamers Vs having fun (while they have fun, i doubt boting AV 24/7 is "fun") and playing for diversity and getting to know other players. Most nice players i met while leveling quit. Rest was only tryhards

This e-sport meta is pretty much anti-mmo for me. Both things are incompatible imo. You always had min maxers and was pretty HC myself, but never to that extend in term of server pop. It just makes things too predictable and too easy. We steamroll everything too quickly and it get boring too quickly.

[Thage]

This e-sport meta is pretty much anti-mmo for me. Both things are incompatible imo. You always had min maxers and was pretty HC myself, but never to that extend in term of server pop. It just makes things too predictable and too easy. We steamroll everything too quickly and it get boring too quickly.

I feel you. I'm lucky in that the 'e-sport meta' isn't really prevalent on Bloodsail Buccaneers. Or maybe it is and I'm just lucky with groups, something I never take for granted. I have nothing against people who want to streamline and speedrun, but that defeats the purpose behind Classic for me, personally. I like the slower pace of gameplay (I've got carpal tunnel and my hands ache after an extended play session in retail due to the shift toward semi-twitch gameplay, as opposed to Classic's slower pace where my hands feel fine after a long play session) and the big, sprawling dungeons are meant to be explored, not sprinted through, imo. It's just a matter of finding like-minded players.

[alexchaos]

I would absolutely love it, but I won't be able to enjoy it like I dit back then. Was in highschool, life was good, came back from school and never had homeworks so I could play as much as I wanted.

Back then I saw gear differently, gear wasn't just a number to up my dps. There was this feeling when obtaining new gear that is hard to explain. Certain pieces of gear had a reputation, like if you had THAT piece of gear you were awesome and I'm pretty sure this feeling won't come back.

Also, I already lived the adventure so there's gonna be no more surprises. Sure I'll get nostalgic and enjoy it but it's never gonna be the same I guess..

[Aphrel]

wrath with last patch balance?

well, everything raidwise would be roughly as easy as classic is now.

The only hard fights in ulduar all got nerfed. Id expect to see alone in the darkness fall on day 1.

Toc didnt have any hard enrage timers so it would not surprise me to see [A tribute to insanity] accomplished during the first week aswell (sorry, meant 5th week. Must have those 5 weeks of normal mode be4 all the bosses are unlocked ofc).

ICC will be a snooze the first 9 weeks when only normal mode is availible then we will have the only raid that is even remoty tuned for the patch we are in.

Lich king hc will be cheesed with 10-15 locks, letting ppl ignore valkyrs and gain free dps time on boss, making the enrage an easy timer to meet aswell.


As for any other contet outside raid... we have argent crusade dailys!!!! cant wait. Uhm whatelse.. oh yeah, those new LFD-heroics... OH AND WINTERGRASP! Cant wait to play ally with 30 tenacity buffs again that doesnt scale your vehicle...

Just as with classic wow it will be ruined because blizz is lazy and decideds to go with last patch tuning...
Also, all dks and retris will be butthurt that all the overpowered stuff they could do in pvp in early wrath will have been already nerfed.

[deenman]

You clearly are blinded.

1. More content doesn't = a better game.
2. Catch up gear is more a thing these days than it ever was back then.
3. Easy is subjective because as with every iteration of the gear, Gear > mechanical difficulty.
3b. I'd argue the game is easier now because every class can essentially deal with every situation thrown at it. Heck rogues can bloody self heal. The less tools you have the "harder" something is and makes you more reliant on others as a result.

Also BFA = WOD both are the worst expansion just in opposite ways. WOD was still fun to play but you had nothing to do. BFA isn't fun to play but you have everything to do.

wait so the nr 1 point is good for wrath but bad for wod?lol,and no..difficulty isnt subjective,the game today is HARDER than ever at endgame,thats what im talking about,wrath 90% of the raids were a joke at the TOP,bfa has had some of the hardest overall raiding content,sure there was no kiljaeden in bfa but more bosses overall harder

[CrawlFromThePit]

Wrath is often regarded as the pinnacle of WoW, particularly on this forum. Is Wrath really as good as some of us like to remember. The release of Classic has forced some players to admit that original WoW certainly has its shortcomings. The reality is you can't relive Vanilla WoW. So one should assume that the same applies for Wrath. But is that really the case?

I remember the first months of Wrath of the Lich King in quite some detail, perhaps better than most. The question is how would it all playout if the game was released again today. Well let's examine some of the content firstly. Northrend had some of the best leveling ever in the game, but it didn't take that long. It might take the average player only a week nowadays to ding 80. While the leveling content is fun compared to Classic, it is quite short.

The max level content in early Wrath was as follows. The dungeons included Utgarde Keep, Azjol Nerub, The Nexus, Gundrak, The Violet Hold, Drak'tharon Keep, Ahn'kahet, Utgard Pinnacle, Halls of Stone, Halls of Lightning, and The Oculus. Some of these dungeons were very disliked by the community. Dungeons like Oculus, Nexus, Gundrak, and Violet Hold were often complained about on the forums. The dungeons were also quite easy compared to TBC dungeons. Just imagine how easy they would be if played through today. I do think that the Utgard dungeons were pretty exceptional, but overall alot of the dungeons were forgettable.

Now for the Raid content. There were two raids. Naxxramas and The Vault of Archavon. Naxxramas was a pushover. It was considered faceroll back in 3.0. It is comparable in difficulty to some Classic WoW raids. It was that easy. Not only that, but it was a replica of a raid from Classic WoW, only now tuned for 25 players instead of 40. The reception was pretty mixed back in 3.0. Then there is the Vault of Archavon, the raid in Lake Wintergrasp. It was essentially a 3 boss encounter that players could complete once their faction controlled the Lake Wintergrasp PvP zone. The fights were all quite short and straightforward. It took about 30 minutes to finish.

The PvP in Wrath is considered one of the high points. What was it really like though? The fastest way to get Blue PvP gear was to honor farm in Strand of the Ancients. SotA is a battleground that largely involves siege warfare. The reason it was so popular in WOTLK is because the games would end fast. Players would often avoid fights and instead focus on destorying walls with siege vehicles. You didn't actually need to fight other players, since the ultimate goal was to siege the walls of the defending team. The Lake Wintergrasp PvP zone was pretty similar. It involved a lot of siege vehicles. Some players were into that kind of thing. Arena was bursty. Players would often be 100-0'd by Retribution/DK combos. The Deathknight class was truly heroic, and quite overpowered in Arena. While there was variety of decent comps, a lot of specs were pretty unviable when compared to the power of an unholy DK.

As fun as the leveling in Northrend was, there really wasn't that much world content. Players rarely revisited some zones. Dalaran was the main hub. It was majestic, yet at the same time cramped.There was a lot of standing around in Dalaran, no different than what you see in Orgrimmar or Stormwind in Classic. Now I know that Wrath eventually added some pretty spectacular content (Ulduar), there was definitely some disappointing additions (ToC). The Icecrown Citadel patch was pretty well received, but there was very little added to Wrath after ICC. I can't imagine being stuck in ICC for 8 months would be that fun nowadays.

I had a lot of fun in Wrath, but I question whether that could ever be relived. Knowing what we now know.

Did people really complain about Nexus and Gundrak? I never saw anyone complain about them, they are normal dungeons like most of them. Occulus was terrible because the dragons are not fun, hopping off and back on is annoying. Violet Hold is a waiting dungeon so it's fundamentally not fun either, understandable... but Nexus and Gundrak? Never saw one person complain about them this is the first time I read about this.

That being said, I really don't think Wrath was technically that good. The xpack rode on the increasing hype from TBC which was better, and having Arthas as the main villain really made the xpack feel important, on top of that it was the first xpack with a new class so it felt special and fresh. But when it comes to content and gameplay it wasn't that great at all like you pointed out. Ulduar was a stand out raid, the rest was pretty normal, not bad, not particularly good.