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  1. #41
    That'd require canonizing a half orc half human half draenei shamageadin.

    Also people (rightfully) unfamiliar with his story would've been as confused as I was when this weird lady was floating over the sunwell in the Kil'jaeden fight muttering something about sacrificing herself. I think she was in love with a dragon?
    Last edited by Powerogue; 2020-02-13 at 07:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    That'd require canonizing a half orc half human half draenei shamageadin.

    Also people (rightfully) unfamiliar with his story would've been as confused as I was when this weird lady was floating over the sunwell in the Kil'jaeden fight muttering something about sacrificing herself. I think she was in love with a dragon?
    She was also the sunwell given human form and a fake history and personality by another dragon. Goddamn dragons sometimes...

  3. #43
    stop saying the playerbase hates the work of knaak please...
    in most of the guilds I've been, most of the people loved his books and finds his writing to be of way better quality than Golden's.
    I really don't like it when you force an opinion

  4. #44
    I wish people would stop saying that Medan isnt canon; he is, and Blizzard has stated as much. The only thing that is not canon is him being a Guardian (and he gave up the powers at the end of the comics anyway so thats hardly relevant).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    stop saying the playerbase hates the work of knaak please...
    in most of the guilds I've been, most of the people loved his books and finds his writing to be of way better quality than Golden's.
    I really don't like it when you force an opinion
    Yeah, and a lot of people are wrong. People complaining about Goldens work but think Knaaks is anything but trash are literally just saying that to be contrarian. Knaaks work is objectively trash, and as much as people try to rag on Nathanos being a self-insert, Rhonin is the original cringy mary-sue self insert, and as much as people try to rag on on WoD timetraveling being non-sensical and stupid, Knaak did it first, and way way worse.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Yeah, and a lot of people are wrong. People complaining about Goldens work but think Knaaks is anything but trash are literally just saying that to be contrarian. Knaaks work is objectively trash, and as much as people try to rag on Nathanos being a self-insert, Rhonin is the original cringy mary-sue self insert, and as much as people try to rag on on WoD timetraveling being non-sensical and stupid, Knaak did it first, and way way worse.
    a lot of anger, in you, you have
    but glad to gear that my opinion is trash and that I've objectively been part of many groups of idiots.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    a lot of anger, in you, you have
    but glad to gear that my opinion is trash and that I've objectively been part of many groups of idiots.
    I mean, a lot of people who only read like 5 books think that those 5 books are the best even if they might not be because theres nothing to compare them to.

    Not saying that Goldens writing is anything spectacular, but Knaaks book were written for people who play video games and you can tell.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    When you're second in the command of the Burning Legion, the same Legion that was THIS close to destroying everything, then yeah...

    You're mighty. KJ also made the Lich King, and has connections to the Shadowlands.
    How did you determine how close the Legion is to destroying everything?
    I don’t know when you managed to become a fan of the Lich King and began to claim that one of the strongest creatures on Azeroth can destroy his whole life even without the Scourge, but this style does not suit you. Now you really look like a British Bulldog or Larry

  8. #48
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    Yeah, and a lot of people are wrong. People complaining about Goldens work but think Knaaks is anything but trash are literally just saying that to be contrarian. Knaaks work is objectively trash, and as much as people try to rag on Nathanos being a self-insert, Rhonin is the original cringy mary-sue self insert, and as much as people try to rag on on WoD timetraveling being non-sensical and stupid, Knaak did it first, and way way worse.
    This isn't how opinion works - there's no such thing as an objective opinion, and you can't really tell other people what they should or shouldn't objectively like. I'm not Knaak's biggest fan myself and I don't think his characters are well constructed, but that's my opinion of them and other people are entitled to feel and argue differently. I actually like some of Knaak's earlier work like "Day of the Dragon," even though it has some flaws it's still a decent story in the Warcraft universe. I have similar feelings about Golden, although I've found her contributions to be of a generally higher caliber than Knaak's (with some noteworthy exceptions like the ending of "War Crimes").
    "I remember what I told you, but I can't remember why. The moon is turning red and bleeding through the sky. Absolution, redemption, salvation at the end - when justice is served don't expect me to attend." - Trust Obey, "Raymond Chandler Evening"

  9. #49
    Elemental Lord HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    How did you determine how close the Legion is to destroying everything?
    I don’t know when you managed to become a fan of the Lich King and began to claim that one of the strongest creatures on Azeroth can destroy his whole life even without the Scourge, but this style does not suit you. Now you really look like a British Bulldog or Larry
    Cause the Lich King was powerful as fuck? Also, determining that the Legion was close to destroying everything doesn't take much. They were close when Gul'dan tried to make Illidan's body Sargeras' Vessel. They were close during 7.2 when KJ was about to slaughter all of the heroes on his ship, as well as use the Fallen Avatar of Sargeras to absolutely obliterate the Heroes (Both failed, but were again close calls). They were close when Sargeras was about to create the Dark Pantheon. They were close prior to Azeroth's Champions gaining the Artifacts, as well as the Demon Hunters joining the fray. And they were close when Argus was about to destroy all of creation on the Heroes during the fight at the Seat of the Pantheon.

    The Legion was THIS close so many times, that when the Heroes "won", they also lost something in advance. With the Artifacts, it was the prideful heroes and soldiers that we lost along the way. With Argus, it was our "deaths" (Though, Eonar resurrected us afterwards). With Sargeras, it was our World getting fucking stabbed, which led to BFA and now Shadowlands. With KJ, it was Illidan making a portal from Azeroth to Argus. With the WoTA, it was almost the entire planet's prior population. And with WC3, it was both the World Tree's destruction, as well as the rise of the Lich King. Must I mention the Sunwell? And the Purge of Silvermoon/Destruction of Dalaran? The Fall of Lordaeron? Etc.

    You really can't say that for everyone else. When Lei'Shen died, nothing was lost. When Deathwing died, the world soon started to heal right after the Cataclysm. When N'Zoth died, almost nothing changed. And now, the only person post-Legion to absolutely change Azeroth for the worse is Sylvanas. Ya know? The worst character in WoW rn? Fuck her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I wish people would stop saying that Medan isnt canon; he is, and Blizzard has stated as much. The only thing that is not canon is him being a Guardian (and he gave up the powers at the end of the comics anyway so thats hardly relevant).

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    Yeah, and a lot of people are wrong. People complaining about Goldens work but think Knaaks is anything but trash are literally just saying that to be contrarian. Knaaks work is objectively trash, and as much as people try to rag on Nathanos being a self-insert, Rhonin is the original cringy mary-sue self insert, and as much as people try to rag on on WoD timetraveling being non-sensical and stupid, Knaak did it first, and way way worse.
    Me'dan isn't canon though. He was literally a 404 error in the Chronicle, and wasn't mentioned once! If he is Canon, then he's likely aiding the Light rn with shit in Space. But, that's a massive doubt, and I don't think we'll ever see him in the game's remaining history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Moose Fandango View Post
    She was also the sunwell given human form and a fake history and personality by another dragon. Goddamn dragons sometimes...
    Kil'Jaeden: The Sunwell, but as a girl? MY FAVORITE!

  10. #50
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    Canon or not, Med'an is being ignored so heavily he might as well not exist. We've gone through plenty of content with characters and themes strongly related to him; his absence is telling of Blizzard's plans for him. He is not wanted.

    I was fine with Argus, since we got to see Sargeras in his full glory right after and his defeat at the Pantheon's hands was the natural way. Argus's fight was pretty good too imo.
    Now you see it. Now you don't.

  11. #51
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Me'dan isn't canon though. He was literally a 404 error in the Chronicle, and wasn't mentioned once! If he is Canon, then he's likely aiding the Light rn with shit in Space. But, that's a massive doubt, and I don't think we'll ever see him in the game's remaining history.
    Med'an's existence in the lore is confirmed canon - both from the Devs and Micky Nielson when he was one of WoW's head writers. He is deeply unpopular, however, and is likely never to actually show up in-game in WoW or in future external media in any real capacity. The only aspect of Med'an's character to be specifically and explicitly de-canonized is his stint as the Guardian in the Wildstorm comics for WoW. Other than that, he remains in the story.
    "I remember what I told you, but I can't remember why. The moon is turning red and bleeding through the sky. Absolution, redemption, salvation at the end - when justice is served don't expect me to attend." - Trust Obey, "Raymond Chandler Evening"

  12. #52
    On the note of Rhonin, as someone who never read the books I always found him kinda neat in-game.

    He was kinda the O.G Taran Zhu in the Ulduar cinematic, like "Shut the fuck up, sit the fuck down, and let's work on not getting disintegrated by corrupted titan machinery" and then he gave his life to save Theramore, kinda cool.
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFromHumanResources View Post
    On the note of Rhonin, as someone who never read the books I always found him kinda neat in-game.

    He was kinda the O.G Taran Zhu in the Ulduar cinematic, like "Shut the fuck up, sit the fuck down, and let's work on not getting disintegrated by corrupted titan machinery" and then he gave his life to save Theramore, kinda cool.
    Rhonin in WotLK comes across much better than he does in the "War of the Ancients" trilogy, in my opinion. The same being true of Cata/MoP and Theramore.
    "I remember what I told you, but I can't remember why. The moon is turning red and bleeding through the sky. Absolution, redemption, salvation at the end - when justice is served don't expect me to attend." - Trust Obey, "Raymond Chandler Evening"

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Cause the Lich King was powerful as fuck? Also, determining that the Legion was close to destroying everything doesn't take much. They were close when Gul'dan tried to make Illidan's body Sargeras' Vessel. They were close during 7.2 when KJ was about to slaughter all of the heroes on his ship, as well as use the Fallen Avatar of Sargeras to absolutely obliterate the Heroes (Both failed, but were again close calls). They were close when Sargeras was about to create the Dark Pantheon. They were close prior to Azeroth's Champions gaining the Artifacts, as well as the Demon Hunters joining the fray. And they were close when Argus was about to destroy all of creation on the Heroes during the fight at the Seat of the Pantheon.

    The Legion was THIS close so many times, that when the Heroes "won", they also lost something in advance. With the Artifacts, it was the prideful heroes and soldiers that we lost along the way. With Argus, it was our "deaths" (Though, Eonar resurrected us afterwards). With Sargeras, it was our World getting fucking stabbed, which led to BFA and now Shadowlands. With KJ, it was Illidan making a portal from Azeroth to Argus. With the WoTA, it was almost the entire planet's prior population. And with WC3, it was both the World Tree's destruction, as well as the rise of the Lich King. Must I mention the Sunwell? And the Purge of Silvermoon/Destruction of Dalaran? The Fall of Lordaeron? Etc.

    You really can't say that for everyone else. When Lei'Shen died, nothing was lost. When Deathwing died, the world soon started to heal right after the Cataclysm. When N'Zoth died, almost nothing changed. And now, the only person post-Legion to absolutely change Azeroth for the worse is Sylvanas. Ya know? The worst character in WoW rn? Fuck her.
    I have not read such nonsense for a long time, thanks
    The Lich King is negligible. He is weaker than Lei Shen, which makes him weaker than Keepers, strongest Wild Gods, Elemental Lords,Demon Lords (even Mannoroth), Aspects and Azshara and Xavius(in Nightmare Lord form)
    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? I don’t even know how to comment on such stupidity. They were close, but lost ... By your logic, ANY VILLAIN WAS CLOSE, just lost. How did you determine who was close and who was not? Do you want me to tell you who was close? Deathwing. Do you know why? Because Deathwing literally won the original timeline. Nozdormu had to break the oath of non-interference in the time line and return to the past for the Dragon Soul only to defeat Deathwing. He was close. And in order to defeat him, the Aspects had to give all their strength. And after his defeat, the world was restored for a very long time. The only warp destruction that the Legion brought was made by Sargeras personally and only at the very end, when he thrust his sword into Azeroth and she cannot be healed of this wound. Nzot was also close. At first he almost desecrated the House of Heart, but he was stopped by Ra Den. Then he defeated the heroes, but he did not kill them. He subjugated the heroes. And they were not saved by a paladin with a toothpick, but literally the power of the planet itself, the power of the Forge of Origination, directed through the Heart of Azeroth.
    Lol, artifacts. Heroes took away almost all artifacts from others. They are not as powerful as you think. LOL what? In the War of the Ancients, the Legion abruptly began to lose when dragons appeared. The Legion could not oppose ANYTHING Dragon Soul and the only reason why the Ancient War ended in a few days after the appearance of the dragons is the betrayal of Deathwing. And even at the end, when the dragons were weakened by the destruction of the Blue Pack and the fact that they gave most of their powers to the Dragon Soul, they easily destroyed the demons. So in the War of the Ancients, the Legion was such a big threat just because of the intervention of the Old Gods. I also do not know why you are listing me events from WC3 if the Scourge did all this, albeit under the guidance of the Legion.

  15. #55
    Elemental Lord HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    I have not read such nonsense for a long time, thanks
    The Lich King is negligible. He is weaker than Lei Shen, which makes him weaker than Keepers, strongest Wild Gods, Elemental Lords,Demon Lords (even Mannoroth), Aspects and Azshara and Xavius(in Nightmare Lord form)
    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? I don’t even know how to comment on such stupidity. They were close, but lost ... By your logic, ANY VILLAIN WAS CLOSE, just lost. How did you determine who was close and who was not? Do you want me to tell you who was close? Deathwing. Do you know why? Because Deathwing literally won the original timeline. Nozdormu had to break the oath of non-interference in the time line and return to the past for the Dragon Soul only to defeat Deathwing. He was close. And in order to defeat him, the Aspects had to give all their strength. And after his defeat, the world was restored for a very long time. The only warp destruction that the Legion brought was made by Sargeras personally and only at the very end, when he thrust his sword into Azeroth and she cannot be healed of this wound. Nzot was also close. At first he almost desecrated the House of Heart, but he was stopped by Ra Den. Then he defeated the heroes, but he did not kill them. He subjugated the heroes. And they were not saved by a paladin with a toothpick, but literally the power of the planet itself, the power of the Forge of Origination, directed through the Heart of Azeroth.
    Lol, artifacts. Heroes took away almost all artifacts from others. They are not as powerful as you think. LOL what? In the War of the Ancients, the Legion abruptly began to lose when dragons appeared. The Legion could not oppose ANYTHING Dragon Soul and the only reason why the Ancient War ended in a few days after the appearance of the dragons is the betrayal of Deathwing. And even at the end, when the dragons were weakened by the destruction of the Blue Pack and the fact that they gave most of their powers to the Dragon Soul, they easily destroyed the demons. So in the War of the Ancients, the Legion was such a big threat just because of the intervention of the Old Gods. I also do not know why you are listing me events from WC3 if the Scourge did all this, albeit under the guidance of the Legion.
    ?

    Being weaker than Lei'shen, the same guy who overthrew Ra'den and gained power that was beyond even the Keepers for a short while, does not make you weak. Hell, even being comparable to him means you're pretty fucking powerful on your own. Arthas as a DK bested Illidan Stormrage (Post Skull Amp), he fucked around with the Dreadlords (So much so than a pre-DK Arthas could 1 shot Mal'ganis), he bested King Anasterian and is above Kael'thas in might (Both extremely powerful, especially when by high sources of magic, AKA the Sunwell, the pool of magics Anasterian was DEFENDING when he fought Arthas and died), and mind you this was pre-LK amp.

    Not even talking about his armies alone, the LK casually 1 shot the Heroes, and this was after we beat Malygos and Yogg'Saron in combat (Granted, we had help, but we also got a lot stronger due to us slaying these guys), he raised how many dragons just by simply raising his blade, he laid out a trap for the Alliance and the Horde at the Argent Tournament for Anub'arak (Showcasing that the LK is a clever fucker), the LK also handled many armies of the Alliance and the Horde, to the point where, story wise, it took the combined might of the Champions of Azeroth, Tirion, the Alliance and the Horde just to even enter the Frozen Throne, and we ONLY won then because Tirion surprised Arthas with his "blessing" blow.

    Also, about Deathwing, you do realize that Sargeras won in countless other timelines as well, right? While Deathwing won in the original timeline, Sargeras won in an infinite amount of others. The reason why Sargeras lost is the same reason why Deathwing lost. We were stronger. When Deathwing lost, Thrall and the Players managed to bring the Aspects together, warn everyone of the coming "hour of twilight" beforehand, and were prepared to stop Deathwing before shit got real. With Sargeras, we had the Artifacts, the Demon Hunters, and tons of luck.

    Also, let me talk about the Artifacts real quick. The fuck are you talking about? They were extremely powerful. The Maw of the Damned ate entire worlds prior to the DK player wielding it, and when the Player wielded it, they became stronger and stronger throughout 7.0-7.3, and this also applies to the Warlocks Players (WITH THE SCYTHE OF SARGERAS!), Priests with Xal'atath, Shaman's with the Scepter of Azshara (Something Azshara comments on when you fight her during 8.2, which means you could still clap Azshara with the Scepter, even after it's lost all its power during Legion. Lel), as well as Paladins with the Ashbringer (It's confirmed that, after you complete the upgrades in 7.0 ALONE, you become more powerful than any other Ashbringer user prior), as well as MANY other class artifacts that apply, not even including the fucking Fists of Ra'den.

    These Artifacts are tough, and they took on Xavius, Aggramar (Though in an Avatar Form, he is still beyond anything we've seen prior), a Sargeras and Legion masters empowered Gul'dan, a Sargeras empowered Azathoth controlled Illidan, Kil'jaeden, as well as a Sargeras empowered ARGUS THE UNMAKER (Granted, this is with the Titan's aiding us. But still...A TITAN WORLD SOUL EMPOWERED BY SARGERAS HIMSELF!) Idk why you think they're not that tough.

    "The Legion could not oppose ANYTHING Dragon Soul" Why would they? It was being used to empower the Legion's portal during the Aspect's "infiltration" over it. The Legion was also coming out in massive numbers, so it's not like they would care about what the Aspects would do. Deathwing's infiltration against the Aspects only proved their lack of concern. The Legion did not suspect guys like Broxigar, Malfurion, and Tyrande to aid in disrupting the portals' network chain, though. Hence, why they failed. If anything, the aspects helped the Legion out indirectly.

    "And even at the end, when the dragons were weakened by the destruction of the Blue Pack and the fact that they gave most of their powers to the Dragon Soul, they easily destroyed the demons." It's almost likely regular recruit Demons aren't Aspect level. Your point?

    "So in the War of the Ancients, the Legion was such a big threat just because of the intervention of the Old Gods." What are you talking about? The Legion was invading Azeroth across the globe, and the Aspects couldn't handle the demons all at once, hence why they weren't the only ones fighting against them. The Night Elves were also getting manhandled by Archimonde's massacre spree as well. So, no? The only reason why the Elves won was because of the Old Gods' intervention, as well as Broxigar's, Illidan's, Malfurion's, and Tyrandes aid.

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    Quit downplaying the Legion and the Scourge just so you could push your narrative forward.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    ?

    Being weaker than Lei'shen, the same guy who overthrew Ra'den and gained power that was beyond even the Keepers for a short while, does not make you weak. Hell, even being comparable to him means you're pretty fucking powerful on your own. Arthas as a DK bested Illidan Stormrage (Post Skull Amp), he fucked around with the Dreadlords (So much so than a pre-DK Arthas could 1 shot Mal'ganis), he bested King Anasterian and is above Kael'thas in might (Both extremely powerful, especially when by high sources of magic, AKA the Sunwell, the pool of magics Anasterian was DEFENDING when he fought Arthas and died), and mind you this was pre-LK amp.

    Not even talking about his armies alone, the LK casually 1 shot the Heroes, and this was after we beat Malygos and Yogg'Saron in combat (Granted, we had help, but we also got a lot stronger due to us slaying these guys), he raised how many dragons just by simply raising his blade, he laid out a trap for the Alliance and the Horde at the Argent Tournament for Anub'arak (Showcasing that the LK is a clever fucker), the LK also handled many armies of the Alliance and the Horde, to the point where, story wise, it took the combined might of the Champions of Azeroth, Tirion, the Alliance and the Horde just to even enter the Frozen Throne, and we ONLY won then because Tirion surprised Arthas with his "blessing" blow.

    Also, about Deathwing, you do realize that Sargeras won in countless other timelines as well, right? While Deathwing won in the original timeline, Sargeras won in an infinite amount of others. The reason why Sargeras lost is the same reason why Deathwing lost. We were stronger. When Deathwing lost, Thrall and the Players managed to bring the Aspects together, warn everyone of the coming "hour of twilight" beforehand, and were prepared to stop Deathwing before shit got real. With Sargeras, we had the Artifacts, the Demon Hunters, and tons of luck.

    Also, let me talk about the Artifacts real quick. The fuck are you talking about? They were extremely powerful. The Maw of the Damned ate entire worlds prior to the DK player wielding it, and when the Player wielded it, they became stronger and stronger throughout 7.0-7.3, and this also applies to the Warlocks Players (WITH THE SCYTHE OF SARGERAS!), Priests with Xal'atath, Shaman's with the Scepter of Azshara (Something Azshara comments on when you fight her during 8.2, which means you could still clap Azshara with the Scepter, even after it's lost all its power during Legion. Lel), as well as Paladins with the Ashbringer (It's confirmed that, after you complete the upgrades in 7.0 ALONE, you become more powerful than any other Ashbringer user prior), as well as MANY other class artifacts that apply, not even including the fucking Fists of Ra'den.

    These Artifacts are tough, and they took on Xavius, Aggramar (Though in an Avatar Form, he is still beyond anything we've seen prior), a Sargeras and Legion masters empowered Gul'dan, a Sargeras empowered Azathoth controlled Illidan, Kil'jaeden, as well as a Sargeras empowered ARGUS THE UNMAKER (Granted, this is with the Titan's aiding us. But still...A TITAN WORLD SOUL EMPOWERED BY SARGERAS HIMSELF!) Idk why you think they're not that tough.

    "The Legion could not oppose ANYTHING Dragon Soul" Why would they? It was being used to empower the Legion's portal during the Aspect's "infiltration" over it. The Legion was also coming out in massive numbers, so it's not like they would care about what the Aspects would do. Deathwing's infiltration against the Aspects only proved their lack of concern. The Legion did not suspect guys like Broxigar, Malfurion, and Tyrande to aid in disrupting the portals' network chain, though. Hence, why they failed. If anything, the aspects helped the Legion out indirectly.

    "And even at the end, when the dragons were weakened by the destruction of the Blue Pack and the fact that they gave most of their powers to the Dragon Soul, they easily destroyed the demons." It's almost likely regular recruit Demons aren't Aspect level. Your point?

    "So in the War of the Ancients, the Legion was such a big threat just because of the intervention of the Old Gods." What are you talking about? The Legion was invading Azeroth across the globe, and the Aspects couldn't handle the demons all at once, hence why they weren't the only ones fighting against them. The Night Elves were also getting manhandled by Archimonde's massacre spree as well. So, no? The only reason why the Elves won was because of the Old Gods' intervention, as well as Broxigar's, Illidan's, Malfurion's, and Tyrandes aid.

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    Quit downplaying the Legion and the Scourge just so you could push your narrative forward.
    What nonsense ...
    He defeated Ra because he was depressed and had no power inaccessible to the Keepers. On the contrary, he could not even control the fists of Ra Den. Ner'Zhul gave almost all of his strength to Arthas, so it was not just Arthas DK and Illidan easily beat him and was getting ready to finish, but did not expect Arthas to have any more strength. Illidan lost, but he was much more powerful than Arthas. He defeated Anasterian only because Anasterian was an old man and this was emphasized several times in the book.
    The heroes defeated Yogg-Saron with the help of the Keepers and Malygos with the help of Alexstrasza. They became stronger, but not by much. According to Laura, the heroes in 3.3.5 could not defeat Malygos or Yogg-Saron without help. Arthas also did not oneshot heroes. It was a long and hard battle and in the end he won. I'm really tired of telling you to go and read the Chronicles.

    Sorry what? In countless timelines? What is this stupid argument that you are trying to win the argument? Proofs for these timelines? Proofs that Deathwing won in fewer timelines than Sargeras? There is also only one true time line that Nozdormu must protect. Alternative lines are small streams, and the main timeline is a river. Please stop arguing, not knowing anything and inventing some kind of nonsense, so that your favorite characters seem cooler.

    The artifacts are so strong that the heroes simply took and took them from others. So they are not so powerful? Otherwise, how did their previous owners lose? And why Nozdormu decided to go in the past for the Dragon Soul, and not take, for example, Alunet and Alodi's staff. So, if a hero with an artifact is stronger than all previous owners of the Incinerator, does this mean that the hero in the Legion is stronger than the Lich King 1x1?

    I didn’t understand anything of your nonsense about titans, artifacts, and more. Please write normally.

    The Legion used the Dragon Soul only after Illidan stole it. And only because Deathwing betrayed everyone. If the dragons simply continued their advance with the Dragon Soul, the Legion could not have done anything to stop them. The Old Gods saved the Legion in this situation.

    Regular demons? There were hundreds of eredar, and they could hardly resist the weakened dragon. Archimonde could do nothing with the weakened Aspects.

    Aspects and dragons could easily end this invasion if they immediately flew to Zin'Azshari. Deathwing's betrayal ruined everything.

    It is you who must stop overestimating them and their leaders, because they are much weaker than they seem. An insignificant part of the strength of the Aspects in Nordrassil was enough to kill Archimondab and the Lich King is weaker than Lei Shen.

  17. #57
    Elemental Lord HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Almost everything you just said could easily be solved if you just either read the Illidan novel, or played during Cata (WHERE YOU SEE THE ASPECTS AT ZIN'AZSHARI, AND THEY WERE STILL POWERLESS, EVEN PRIOR TO DEATHWING CUCKING THEM!)...

    The timeline talk comes from the Illidan Novel. Nobbel87 made a detail review on the novel in one of his YT videos. I suggest you check it out.

    "So, if a hero with an artifact is stronger than all previous owners of the Incinerator, does this mean that the hero in the Legion is stronger than the Lich King 1x1?" Yes. Basically this. How is this out of the ordinary?

    "The artifacts are so strong that the heroes simply took and took them from others." Because the owners were either tricked by the player (VIA the Scepter of Sargeras), or the previous owners were just trash with the Artifact (AKA Gorelix the Devourer, Tirion, etc). Again, there is nothing out of the norm here. Players have surpassed famous lore characters in power even before this...

    "Regular demons? There were hundreds of eredar, and they could hardly resist the weakened dragon." Hundreds of Eredar are "regular" demons, yes. Also, they could resist, hence why the invasion went as long as it did. The Eredar enslaved countless dragons during their invasion. Archimonde also made Ysera tremble for a bit as well, and this was right after he broke through her "spell" or whatever the fuck it was.

    "He defeated Ra because he was depressed and had no power inaccessible to the Keepers. On the contrary, he could not even control the fists of Ra Den. Ner'Zhul gave almost all of his strength to Arthas, so it was not just Arthas DK and Illidan easily beat him and was getting ready to finish, but did not expect Arthas to have any more strength. Illidan lost, but he was much more powerful than Arthas. He defeated Anasterian only because Anasterian was an old man and this was emphasized several times in the book." You mean the same Ra that, even when depressed, saw through Lei'shen's treachery before getting clapped? Also, Ner'zhul only empowered Arthas through the blade, which actually increases my Artifact argument, as the players made the spirits of Arthas and Ner'zhul their bitch. Also, no Illidan didn't beat him at all, in the cinematic, and almost everything else, Arthas' fight with Illidan was moreso even, and Illidan actually only lost due to his overconfidence.

    And with Anasterian, sure he was old, but he was a tough old fucker, but again, he fell VIA Frostmourne being that fucking OP. Age mattered not there.

    "According to Laura, the heroes in 3.3.5 could not defeat Malygos or Yogg-Saron without help. Arthas also did not oneshot heroes. It was a long and hard battle and in the end he won. I'm really tired of telling you to go and read the Chronicles." 1. Who tf is Laura? And 2. Didn't you hear? The Chronicles came from the "Titan's POV", therefore it's not all true.

    And 3. ARTHAS NEVER FOUGHT THE PLAYERS IN A LONG HARD MATCH! He toyed with us, and effortlessly killed us once he started trying. The LK is pretty fucking OP. And again, with the Keepers, Alexstrasza, and Malygos, the Players were given blessings by Alexstrasza, the Blue Dragonflight, as well as the Keepers Post-Yogg'saron, so that they could be ready to stand against guys like the LK when the time came. Not to mention all the armor/weapon boosts they were given and shit. It was way beyond just a simple "power boost".

    "An insignificant part of the strength of the Aspects in Nordrassil was enough to kill Archimonde" Except every aspect (Except for Deathwing) blessed Nordrassil with a significant portion of their power to make sure the WoA was kept safe, and Archimonde died to that, the whisps overpowering him, as well as the WoA's magics overflowing within him...

    It was a pretty major kill. And even then, Archimonde was caught off guard by that, as it was the only way to actually kill him, VIA catching him off guard. It's like when Goku's off guard. You can actually shoot him with a simple rayblast then. But with his guard up, he is invincible. Same goes with Archimonde.

    "the Lich King is weaker than Lei Shen." This came from the guy who said that Azeroth's Titan was dead, and that the Titan was a he, not a she. Don't believe everything you read.

    "There is also only one true time line that Nozdormu must protect." Cause only that timeline has an Azeroth with a Titan Spirit inside of it. Every other Azeroth doesn't, and Blizzard has confirmed that more than 1 Azeroth exists...

    Why else did the Black Empire win in so many other timelines, and yet we have yet to see a Void Titan Azeroth yet from one of those timelines? Because our Azeroth is the only one with a Titan.

    I'm probably just gonna block you, cause this is just getting annoying, really...

  18. #58
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    No. Whatever hole Blizzard threw Med'an into, they need to keep him there and never unearth him.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Almost everything you just said could easily be solved if you just either read the Illidan novel, or played during Cata (WHERE YOU SEE THE ASPECTS AT ZIN'AZSHARI, AND THEY WERE STILL POWERLESS, EVEN PRIOR TO DEATHWING CUCKING THEM!)...

    The timeline talk comes from the Illidan Novel. Nobbel87 made a detail review on the novel in one of his YT videos. I suggest you check it out.

    "So, if a hero with an artifact is stronger than all previous owners of the Incinerator, does this mean that the hero in the Legion is stronger than the Lich King 1x1?" Yes. Basically this. How is this out of the ordinary?

    "The artifacts are so strong that the heroes simply took and took them from others." Because the owners were either tricked by the player (VIA the Scepter of Sargeras), or the previous owners were just trash with the Artifact (AKA Gorelix the Devourer, Tirion, etc). Again, there is nothing out of the norm here. Players have surpassed famous lore characters in power even before this...

    "Regular demons? There were hundreds of eredar, and they could hardly resist the weakened dragon." Hundreds of Eredar are "regular" demons, yes. Also, they could resist, hence why the invasion went as long as it did. The Eredar enslaved countless dragons during their invasion. Archimonde also made Ysera tremble for a bit as well, and this was right after he broke through her "spell" or whatever the fuck it was.

    "He defeated Ra because he was depressed and had no power inaccessible to the Keepers. On the contrary, he could not even control the fists of Ra Den. Ner'Zhul gave almost all of his strength to Arthas, so it was not just Arthas DK and Illidan easily beat him and was getting ready to finish, but did not expect Arthas to have any more strength. Illidan lost, but he was much more powerful than Arthas. He defeated Anasterian only because Anasterian was an old man and this was emphasized several times in the book." You mean the same Ra that, even when depressed, saw through Lei'shen's treachery before getting clapped? Also, Ner'zhul only empowered Arthas through the blade, which actually increases my Artifact argument, as the players made the spirits of Arthas and Ner'zhul their bitch. Also, no Illidan didn't beat him at all, in the cinematic, and almost everything else, Arthas' fight with Illidan was moreso even, and Illidan actually only lost due to his overconfidence.

    And with Anasterian, sure he was old, but he was a tough old fucker, but again, he fell VIA Frostmourne being that fucking OP. Age mattered not there.

    "According to Laura, the heroes in 3.3.5 could not defeat Malygos or Yogg-Saron without help. Arthas also did not oneshot heroes. It was a long and hard battle and in the end he won. I'm really tired of telling you to go and read the Chronicles." 1. Who tf is Laura? And 2. Didn't you hear? The Chronicles came from the "Titan's POV", therefore it's not all true.

    And 3. ARTHAS NEVER FOUGHT THE PLAYERS IN A LONG HARD MATCH! He toyed with us, and effortlessly killed us once he started trying. The LK is pretty fucking OP. And again, with the Keepers, Alexstrasza, and Malygos, the Players were given blessings by Alexstrasza, the Blue Dragonflight, as well as the Keepers Post-Yogg'saron, so that they could be ready to stand against guys like the LK when the time came. Not to mention all the armor/weapon boosts they were given and shit. It was way beyond just a simple "power boost".

    "An insignificant part of the strength of the Aspects in Nordrassil was enough to kill Archimonde" Except every aspect (Except for Deathwing) blessed Nordrassil with a significant portion of their power to make sure the WoA was kept safe, and Archimonde died to that, the whisps overpowering him, as well as the WoA's magics overflowing within him...

    It was a pretty major kill. And even then, Archimonde was caught off guard by that, as it was the only way to actually kill him, VIA catching him off guard. It's like when Goku's off guard. You can actually shoot him with a simple rayblast then. But with his guard up, he is invincible. Same goes with Archimonde.

    "the Lich King is weaker than Lei Shen." This came from the guy who said that Azeroth's Titan was dead, and that the Titan was a he, not a she. Don't believe everything you read.

    "There is also only one true time line that Nozdormu must protect." Cause only that timeline has an Azeroth with a Titan Spirit inside of it. Every other Azeroth doesn't, and Blizzard has confirmed that more than 1 Azeroth exists...

    Why else did the Black Empire win in so many other timelines, and yet we have yet to see a Void Titan Azeroth yet from one of those timelines? Because our Azeroth is the only one with a Titan.

    I'm probably just gonna block you, cause this is just getting annoying, really...
    Again, complete nonsense
    YES. Yes, even the weakened aspects easily managed to defeat the demons. NOW IMAGINE WHAT HAPPEN IF IF ALL 5 FLIGHTS attacked the capital in full power.
    I do not care much for the Nobel 87, who immediately after the release of the Chronicles stated that some things are now rejected, although they simply were not mentioned in the Chronicles. And I read a novel about Illidan and I know everything myself.

    Yes, unusual.

    What famous characters did the players surpass in power? In Draenor, the player is easily beaten by Garrosh and saved by Thrall. In the Legion a hero with an artifact is beaten by a bunch of naga and Farondis saves him.

    Eredar are the highest demons, lol. LOL what? What nonsense have I just read? Give me a quote immediately. Archimonde did not break through her spell, he could not remove it, and certainly he did not make her tremble, no need to invent it. Ysera and her dragons cast a spell on the eredar and natrezyme that caused them to attack each other. Archimonde was unable to do ANYTHING. If you didn’t even read the War of the Ancients, don’t argue with me.
    Ra hoped that Lei Shen would also become depressed, but Lei Shen attacked him. This is not an indication of Lei Shen's strength. Again. Ner'Zhul gave Arthas so much strength that he almost ceased to exist. Read the damn Chronicles. Illidan set Arthas on fire, and was about to finish him off, but did not expect Arthas to respond. Arthas couldn't do ANYTHING when Illidan burned him. Illidan could just burn him alive, but he decided to finish him close. Illidan was much stronger and lost only because of his self-confidence. Read ''Rise of the Lich King''.
    Again. Read ''Rise of the Lich King'' and ''Blood of the Highborne''. It explicitly states that if Anasterian was younger, he would have won.

    Sorry, I mean the lore. Again a dumb argument about the Titans. That answer explicitly states that the Chronicles is canon, it’s just that not everything is written there. Your ignorance begins to enrage more and more.

    Again. Read the Chronicles. It clearly says that it was a long and hard battle and that Arthas fought with all his fury. He did not hold back.

    Not. This is some absolutely stupid nonsense. The Lich King is not an OP, he is weaker than Lei Shen. And the Guardians generally did not care about the Scourge. It’s enough to invent nonsense that the Aspects prepared the players for a meeting with the Lich King, so that your beloved Arthas seemed stronger. Any of the Aspects can easily kill Arthas. You look just like Larry and the British Bulldog and that’s disgusting.

    Read the Chronicles. Malfurion used the forces of the Aspects in Nordrassil to kill Archimonde. Wisps did not blow up Archimonde; they blew up a tree. And he was not weakened by anything. Also, I cannot understand why you suddenly decided that there was a significant part of their strength in Nordrassil. They did not give back part of their essence, they simply BLESSED the Tree. And this was after they gave most of their strength to the Dragon Soul. Full Aspects will simply rape the Archimonde.

    Proof? Proof, that he could even defend himself from this? Archimonde could not remove the weakened Ysera's spell. But the weakened Alexstrasza easily lifted Archimonde's spell.

    Another nonsense. In the first case, it was an official answer from Blizzard to a question on Twitter. In the second case, he simply left a comment on Reddit and then SEPARATELY EXPLAINED THAT THIS IS HIS PERSONAL OPINION, NOT A PART OF LORE. Lord, how little you know. Am I supposed to explain everything to you and everything? Maybe you yourself will finally study the ENT?

    Again. Alternative timelines do not matter. Only the main line is important and we are arguing about it. I am also waiting for the proof that there are no other world souls in other timelines. Your pathetic attempts to argue your position are becoming funnier and funnier; you wriggle like a snake because you cannot recognize one simple truth. I'm right. As always.

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