View Poll Results: What is your preferred gearing system?

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  • Static ilvl. Static stats. No additional systems. Drop RNG only. (Vanilla - Early MoP)

    199 71.84%
  • Titanforging. Static stat weighting. No additional systems. (Late MoP)

    32 11.55%
  • Titanforging. Chance for bonus stats / sockets. No additional systems. (WoD - Legion??)

    17 6.14%
  • Titanforging. Chance for bonus stats / sockets. Random bonus system. (benthic / 8.2)

    5 1.81%
  • "Static" ilvl. Chance for bonus stats / sockets. Random bonus system. (corruption / 8.3)

    24 8.66%
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  1. #81
    With static gear everyone is gonna have the exact same gear at the exact same time, might as well remove gear all together. They are happy with the amount of power you get from content right now over the 6 month period. Removing titanforging and all similar systems would just mean that they would have to reduce the amount of gear that drops. This would again lead into a system where unlucky people just never get a weapon for example and you'd feel the same as you do now.

    The thing is that in the era of titanforging it has never been the thing that was needed to progress. You've never needed your bis trinket titanforged, socketed with leech. People know they exist and are disappointed having anything else. Personally i can't really think of another system that rewards effort with the same type diminishing returns as titanforging does. Yes you might get lucky on the first week and roll a sick weapon but on average people who play more have better gear with diminishing returns and you will always have at least a theoretical chance of getting better items to help you progress if you feel like it.
    You could have 5 item level upgrades from some shitty currency that costs more and more the higher you get, ending up in 0.5 i level differences in average item levels between the best and worst players. Getting valors from heroic dungeons was a fucking awful grind. I'd rather lose the m+ lottery every time than know that i have to do 4 dungeons every week for 4 weeks to get my bis bracers and gloves, the bracers and gloves everyone else has.

    How i do not miss deathbringer's will not dropping for months, or how i never got the weapon from a whole tier of hyjal archimonde kills. That's where it would have to go back to. That or you would be bis geared in a month of a 6 month tier if the amount of regular loot stayed the same without titanforging.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Prandy View Post
    I'm interested to see what kind of gearing is most popular at the moment. Considering the increasing systems and layers of RNG on gearing now, do people enjoy this, or were the "good ol' days" the best?

    Personally I've disliked the addition of so much RNG on loot, it feels too much like Diablo for my tastes now. I miss BiS lists, and I feel it's ok for you to hit a gear ceiling for a bit until the next round of content comes out.

    However, it's all subjective so let's see what the community thinks.
    I liked the late MoP system where you had static budgets, but could upgrade gear with +4/+8 ilvls and they'd occasionally (rarely) proc to Thunderforged (+6 ilvls).
    That gives best of both worlds.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    You only need one slot to get good corruption atm (2 on later cloak levels) while TF left you wanting one for all 10 slots.
    Ah I understand, maybe that's where the disagreement lies. Maybe he is thinking of the effects of RNG by individual pieces and not the amount of RNG over all your gear.
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  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Ah I understand, maybe that's where the disagreement lies. Maybe he is thinking of the effects of RNG by individual pieces and not the amount of RNG over all your gear.
    If you needed to aim a certain corruption for a certain slot, yeah it would be a nightmare, but luckily that is not required.

  5. #85
    Erm... None?!!

    Non-rng gear with reforging was the best thing ever to be completely honest. It gave us a nice feeling of completion, and gave us more space to enjoy alts, and gather decent gear for them as well.

    Right now it's just so disappointing. It's been a few weeks already and I've gotten only a rank1 infinite stars on a 415ilvl item. And I play 3-4 hours of M+/Arena every single day. Evetrything else I've gotten is complete useless trash (at least according to Bloodmallet). Meanwhile, people are pummeling me in damage meters and arena, with devastation and echoing void each being 20% of their total damage done....

  6. #86
    Bloodsail Admiral Zephire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilfire View Post
    Community: WE WANT STATIC ITEMS

    Ion: I gotchu fam

    8.3: more RNG on gear than ever

    Our game director is hopelessly out of touch with what the community wants
    Corruption is the best iteration so far, concept vise, in a vacuum. The issue is the RNG being to much. Even the legendary farming in Legion had a bad luck protection. Corruption just need that, in a resonable form so that players feel that they progress their gear even if they're unlucky. So I don't think they're that out of touch with the Community.
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    The system i designed gives a flat baseline. If every item is corrupted (except say trinkets or something), then it can safely be assumed that every item will have one socket. This means no matter what, you will not get a comparable item. Right now, if you have a corrupted lower item level set of bracers, and a new set of bracers of a higher itemlevel drops but has no corruption, it typically is not an upgrade. If every item dropped corrupted, it means there is a better chance you can simply rely on Item Level to determine if its an upgrade, especially if it's one of the items you cleansed for a socket.

    I do like your idea of a backup currency system. Maybe have it so every item you purify you collect that corruption, and are able to trade it in for a targeted item.

    I was also thinking about how a system like this would integrate into Shadowlands. What if each covenant was able to reveal different corruption results from the item. And you were more likely to get a higher tier the more you are liked with the covenant. If the covenants work like reps now, if you got to exalted you could even offer a unique visual effect to the corruption. Also i know people don't like rep gates, but this should be account level, and with the thought of alts being able to skip a lot of stuff in SL, i think that is a realistic request.
    I thought a bit more about this and what I'm really looking for is a resonable level of RNG depending on the inpact of gear stats.
    I like...
    ...that sockets makes you go "YES!" while also providing a quite large grind to buy an item which adds a socket.
    ...tertiary stats because they add something nice to look for, it's not mandatory but it's really nice to have, it's just extra.
    ...how corruption is very, very good but at a cost. However, compared to sockets, corruption does not have a fallback system which to me, makes corruption fall almost flat. A good drop is a relief rather than a happy moment.

    I previously said 20% would be a nice drop rate for corruption, I retract that. 10% ish would be okay and a currency system to ease the pain when getting a corruption you don't want.

    I'm kinda fine with a lower ilvl item with a good corruption being better than a item without corruption but higher ilvl. That's how powerful corruptions should be imo. Would also add a "Oh, nice, a high ilvl item, I'll save it to add a good corruption to it. Man, I'm gonna wreck when that happens!".

    Would be super cool if covenants had something like that, yes. I'm okay with rep gating if it only increases a base chance or add cosmetics. Let's say you have a base chance of 5% for a power type to drop, a covenant provides +3% (now 8% in total) chance at friendly, up to +12% at exalted then that would be fine because I could still get things before I hit exalted.

    Mythic+ is fun, it's fun to push but it's also really fun to get an upgrade, thats why RNG with a fallback system is great. Also the fact that corruptions are different and that you can't use them all without severely limiting your survivability makes them more situational and it would make sense to save different pieces and work on different sets for different things. Compare that to a static system where you grin until you have the perfect setup of stats. I Think corruption adds a choice which gear really lacked before.

    I do wounder which gear system benefits the ActiBliz bank account the most. Is it the one which is most fun or the one containing the most gambling?
    Last edited by Zephire; 2020-02-13 at 04:26 PM.
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  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Prandy View Post
    I'm interested to see what kind of gearing is most popular at the moment. Considering the increasing systems and layers of RNG on gearing now, do people enjoy this, or were the "good ol' days" the best?

    Personally I've disliked the addition of so much RNG on loot, it feels too much like Diablo for my tastes now. I miss BiS lists, and I feel it's ok for you to hit a gear ceiling for a bit until the next round of content comes out.

    However, it's all subjective so let's see what the community thinks.
    The diablo kind. Where items are plenty and skill is combining sets. Bring back breakpoints and give us inter-piece synergies. Make it too complex to sim but predictable in what you get and how. Remove timegating so I can farm up gear at my own pace.

    I want the days back where gear recommendations are: "We don't really know but probably [THIS] is a good setup."

  8. #88
    Static ilvl. Static stats. No additional systems. Drop RNG only. Definitely this one. I miss having a definitive BIS to shoot for. Bring back static sockets and enchants for most slots, as well as reforging and I would be perfectly happy.

  9. #89
    Im conflicted here. While i'd prefer the Vannila to MoP system of where you get an item and its the final and bis form of that specific item you receive. I'd also as a heroic only raider for the most part had nothing against the late MoP/WoD (excluding the random gem slots in WOD which were garbage) system of the item being able to WF for 6 ilvl. It gave you something to chase for in Heroic while the Ilvl of the WF didn't surpass the Mythic version ilvl of that item. It gave me purpose to go kill Archimonde, a fight which i actually enjoyed, on Heroic week in week out to try and get that 726 Calamity's Edge in both slots as a Fury Warrior.

  10. #90
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Static items & ilvl with static sockets on certain pieces. Keep the RNG bonus stat procs like avoidance, speed, and leech for the people that get off to the slot machine.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephire View Post
    Corruption is the best iteration so far, concept vise, in a vacuum. The issue is the RNG being to much. Even the legendary farming in Legion had a bad luck protection. Corruption just need that, in a resonable form so that players feel that they progress their gear even if they're unlucky. So I don't think they're that out of touch with the Community.
    It's much more than the RNG. The tuning is terrible, certain classes can deal with negative effects much easier than others creating class imbalance, and all of the proc damage corruption effects undermine the value of playing your class correctly by out-damaging all of your abilities.

  11. #91
    The first one by far.
    Titanforging and any of the ilvl increase rng outside of mythic+ chests is the plague of this game imo

  12. #92
    Dreadlord Alkizon's Avatar
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    Already answered at this question
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  13. #93
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    Static drops from loottables. No reforges or anything like that. And items should have some kind of flavor text.

  14. #94
    I like static drops with upgrade systems and items that allow empowering gear. I'd also like reforging to come back but allows us to convert a stat to something else. So, being able to turn 316 versaility into haste for example. With an item or currency. I basically want milestones and not hope and pray system which is what titanforging and corruption are at the end of the day. Your not earning gear. Your hoping stuff happens and rewarding people differently based on factors out of their control.

    Another thing stop making god drops. Items that are so good you want them for every situation. I should want multiple pieces of gear not just one drop. It means blizzard has to make getting that one item harder rather than just making a bunch of useful items that players can farm. This is why, I don't even enjoy opening my mythic or pvp chest.

    Also stop making everything fucking passive. The hyperthreaded wristwraps are a good example of a powerful bonus that requires your brain. Make more things like that instead of throwing passive 15k damage increases to people from brain dead content.

    The problem with titanforging and corruption is someone gets a bonus that requires no effort and is also fucking massive based entirely on rng. This game is competitive and creating random 15k deficits between players sounds retarded but blizzard does it anyway. Like people gave them good ideas for years but they were ignored.
    Last edited by ViolenceJackRespectsWomen; 2020-02-13 at 08:47 PM.
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  15. #95
    While the topic of this thread is a worthy one, the poll itself is really not done well.

    MoP - WoD was the era of the Valor Upgrade system. It did not have Titanforging in either era, but rather Warforging (called Thunderforging in Throne of Thunder), which was a limited increase of 6 item levels (if I remember right), instead of rolling for a chance at another boost over and over again until the roll fails, which is how Titanforging works.

    The ultimate outcome is that gear from Normal, even thunderforged / warforged gear, when fully upgraded would be about as strong as the BASE ilvl drop of Heroic (the next difficulty up), while people who got the base ilvl drop of Heroic would ultimately end up with stronger gear once they did their own valor upgrades. Also, since warforging was just that single RNG check, getting your warforged item out of those raids was a lot more likely than getting a high-Titanforging item in later expansions.

    MoP - WoD can kind of be thought of as the era of primarily deterministic upgrading with small RNG influence.
    Legion - BFA can be thought of as the era of primarily RNG upgrading with very small deterministic influence (such as Artifact / Azerite power upgrading your artifact weapon / neck).

    Also, while the thread thinks in terms of item upgrades, it should also be remembered that part of the reason MoP started with item upgrading was as a replacement approach to using buffs on a raid instance itself to increase a raid team's power relative to the instance. (So while WotLK and Cata did not have any item upgrading, their final tiers used instance-wide auras to make your gear perform more strongly). That served a purpose of course of incrementally helping raids overcome brick walls in their progression. Direct item upgrades were supposed to do the same thing while being more satisfying because the increase in strength from week to week is accomplished organically through past efforts.

    So in a sense, WotLK and Cata also kind of deserve their own place on the poll, with "instance wide buffs" as the system for upgrading the POWER of gear WITHIN an instance. (Though, it's still fair to deem them part of the era of static gear, it's just something that separates them from Vanilla and TBC).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    You only need one slot to get good corruption atm (2 on later cloak levels) while TF left you wanting one for all 10 slots.
    This is a good point. If corruption reminds me of anything, it actually reminds me of the Legion legendary system. Once you got your class's preferred two legendary items for the content type you were doing, all the other legendaries basically become irrelevant unless you were switching your content type or your role. And the slots those legendaries took were basically permanently taken.

    One aspect of the Legion legendary system is that it was hard on people at the start depending on their RNG luck of what order they got their legendaries in, but in the long run (assuming they didn't switch mains), they were guaranteed to get the legendaries they were after (due to bad luck protection), and once they got them, they didn't need to worry about the legendary system hurting their raid performance. So you saw a lot of people cursing up a storm when they got a "bad legendary" in early Legion who were fine with the system in later Legion.

    It's a weird thing. Corruption on its face seems like a replacement of titanforging, but I think in spirit it's much more like Legion legendaries, but with the wrinkle that it's like having legion legendaries introduced in the final tier of an expansion instead of at the start to be iterated on for an entire expansion.

  16. #96
    Bloodsail Admiral Misuteri's Avatar
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    I’m not so much against reforging as I was against hit cap being the main reason to have to gem and reforge.

    To me that was the stupid part.

    It was rarely a huge crit, mastery or haste change that moved your DPS/HPS it was almost 90% hit cap related.

    If you’re going to go back to static gear drops LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic without hit being reintroduced reforging should not be necessary.
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  17. #97
    The Patient ArkantosChampion's Avatar
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    Static ilvl. Static stats. No additional systems. Drop RNG only.
    I'm a normal text, I'm a bold text.

  18. #98
    It doesn't matter whatchu guys want, static gear is boring, blizz knows it thats why they are trying to figure out a way to not have done&gone gear.

  19. #99
    I was all in having back BIS gear.. but I played so much POE - that having an actual impactful choice for gear is far better.

    The current system with enough corruption pieces forces you to choose your best pieces with a good balance of corruption. It's pretty good and far better than old TF where you always could equip as much TF gear as you want and plain stats were everything that mattered.

  20. #100
    With so many sources that gives you gear like now stat ilvl would be boring. If I would be happy with static gear it can't be so that gear can be farmed as much as it can now. It needs to be scaled back to like it was in TBC/WotLK then.

    If they however kept as many sources available like now I wouldn't mind something like corruption gear, but less powerful and maybe more like utility stuff. If we had static ilvl now we would be done with gearing way too fast, and that's not cool either.

    Either way, I adapt to whatever it is. It doesn't take away my joy in getting upgrades. RNG sucks anyway right, no matter how we spin it. DBW/MotB, fuck off
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