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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Zequill View Post
    C'thun was killed in the patch he was introduce. Yogg was killed in the middle of the expansion he was introduce.... Why would N'zoth be different.
    It's just selective hating really.

    If I look at the track record of Old Gods in WoW, why I'd say N'zoth got the biggest bells and whistles of all, but ultimately, like all of them, he's just an overground and overfed lieutenant guy. He's not THE BIG enemy, just like Azshara isn't.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    I don't get it.

    Nyalotha book-ends Uldir, with lots of parallels in each raid. We spend the entire 8.3 patch taking over and re-energizing the reorigination array. In the raid itself we are placing anchor-points to target the thing.

    Then we get to the final boss, fighting in his literal brain, at the end of it we succumb to his madness but then get a whisper from the Speaker Magni that allows us to rally and we use our heart of Azeroth to act as the final anchor point and to channel the reorigination array. Ending N'Zoth and freeing Azeroth from the corruption of the final Old God.

    Now I get that there's still the loose-end of the giant freakin' sword in Silithis, though there's an implication from Magni that now that N'Zoth is gone Azeroth will be able to finally heal herself. Kinda like using anti-biotics to cure a nasty infection which then let's a septic cut heal up since the body isn't fighting the infection anymore.

    But what exactly is the problem?
    I'm replying without reading the rest of the thread, but I think that part of the problem is that most of the real excitement around BFA's story ended with the Saurfang cinematic at Orgrimmars front gates when Sylvanas took off. That concluded the story arc that began with BFA's opening cinematic and was carried along with quests ever since. The amount of theorycrafting and sheer hype around what the conclusion of the War campaign would ultimately be could never be outdone with whatever Blizz tried to do here, because N'zoth had a lot of foreshadowing but not a lot of emotional buildup.

    We always pretty much knew that we'd defeat him in some way, but there was a lot more curiosity around our established lore characters because we know we still have to 'live with' them pretty much. So in a way, it felt like BFA ended with that big event at the front gates, and almost like this is an epilogue patch in that regard.

    (edited to add this post I found)

    Quote Originally Posted by EyeOculus View Post
    The hate caused by the ever rising ridiculous high expectations of the ungrateful community that blizzard is unable to meet.

    The End Cinematic was not a standalone thing like other Expansions. It was part of the boss fight itself, and people don't seem to understand that.

    Furthermore, N'zoth actually won us over and only the heart of Azeroth saved us from falling into his madness, Azeroth being a very powerful titan to be, if I might add, according to the lore.

    Also, old gods are only agents of the Void Lords, which are still out there. Also we did beat two other old gods before and nzoth was actually weaker in some ways than the other two faced.
    These are also solid points that deserve reiterating.
    Last edited by Asotcha; 2020-02-14 at 08:03 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    You need sunlight. You need movement. You need fresh air. You need green nature. It is just as important as eating healthy, sleeping properly and so on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skroe View Post
    But there is also one more fundamental truth about Americans that plays to our favor: we love to smash down those we lift up. That's as American as apple pie. There has not been a President in the post-war era, except maybe Eisenhower and Kennedy (who didn't live long), who hasn't been felled by something they said or did.

  3. #323
    ignoring the lore implications, I thought it was pretty cool with how they tied it into the in-game cinematic after the fight almost flawlessly. It actually makes your character feel like they did something instead of lore figures stealing the credit all the damn time.

    If we do include the lore implications, it seems like they're just burning through villains who could easily carry their own expansions. Argus and N'yoltha could have been expanded into their own xpacs but they got demoted to third patch level because (?). I've heard of writing yourself in a hole but they're just doing it in the long term to where they're probably gonna run out of shit to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy
    People just want to be bullies without facing any sort of consequences or social fallout for being a bully. If you declare X as a racist/sexist/homophobic/etc. person you can say or do whatever you want to them, ignoring the fact that they are a human.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Not that it matters to anyone else but one possible explanation for the final raid cinematic being so short was the rather expansive cinematics that the expansion had earlier. I haven't bothered to count it all up because I'm not that anal about it but the sum total of BFA cinematics seems higher than previously. Just that most of them came out in the earlier parts of the expansion.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rHaaLm-jwA

    Note: I went looking for the stitched-together cinematics that together made up the Varok-Saurfang Mak'gor cinematic (23 minutes) and found this one as well. Here is a YouTube of all of the BfA cinematics: 37'23". That's quite a bit.
    Which proved to be another Horde centric waste of a story that hasn't had any lasting impact on the game because the "Horde and Alliance conflict is core to the experience".

    So we're at peace but we're not at peace.

    Battle for Sad Orcs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kharill View Post
    Wouldn't be surprised if this patch sees even more people jumping the ship to be honest. Can't blame them. WoW hasn't had quality in any of it's aspects for a long time.

    That cinematic is a fucking joke to what Blizzard are capable of and now BFA is basically over I can honestly say it's a 3/10 at most overall for this trainwreck of an expansion that ended with a ripoff of ROTK.
    Blizzard polish is dead.

    It's not only WoW, look at WC3: Reforged.

  5. #325
    The ending is too lazy

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    Now which would cause more damage.

    a massive fucking hole or a an object sticking out of it?
    Well, the wound is still "bleeding" with the sword in it. Also can't wait for some kind of "new threat" to come to the planet and just push the sword in, if it's left there.

  7. #327
    I also think the anger is kinda weird. People should have laughed instead, because that end cinematic is a joke.

  8. #328
    Legendary! Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Look below you.
    also all three other old gods were killed, but are still very active to this day.
    Yea. Akin to how Y'shaarj's death made the 7 Sha and all the little Sha-lings, C'Thun, Yogg'Saron and N'Zoth will likely make several "big" raid/dungeon worth bosses, and alot of little quest-kill mobs. We already saw the Yogg-ites in that one scenario we had earlier in the expansion. So when Blizz does decide to revisit older content, they have a number of bads already prepped there.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  9. #329
    So, @FelPlague, you want to give another explanation why the cinematic is still unlisted on their channel? Your excuse of it being posted by accident too soon is a load of crap so whats next.

    Its ok, you dont need to respond, I know you wont.

  10. #330
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    So, @FelPlague, you want to give another explanation why the cinematic is still unlisted on their channel? Your excuse of it being posted by accident too soon is a load of crap so whats next.

    Its ok, you dont need to respond, I know you wont.
    waiting till the final wing comes out on LFR so that the most players will be able to see it ingame before being spoiled on youtube.
    you really think blizzard if they saw a cinematic as 'bad" would not just remove it, or leave it, but "delist" it

    oh also "i know you wont respond"
    well... i did...
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2020-02-14 at 11:44 PM.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    So, @FelPlague, you want to give another explanation why the cinematic is still unlisted on their channel? Your excuse of it being posted by accident too soon is a load of crap so whats next.

    Its ok, you dont need to respond, I know you wont.
    LOL they seriously unlisted it?

    The bloody cowards. Imagine not even wanting to stand by your own garbage by at least listing the damn thing.

    I mean I knew it had a majority dislike ratio as it deserves but unlisting it? Fucking gets better.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDays View Post
    Which proved to be another Horde centric waste of a story that hasn't had any lasting impact on the game because the "Horde and Alliance conflict is core to the experience".

    So we're at peace but we're not at peace.

    Battle for Sad Orcs.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Blizzard polish is dead.

    It's not only WoW, look at WC3: Reforged.
    I'm the goddamn moron who preordered it dude. I don't need to look I actually experienced.

    That game is an insult to Classic Blizzard and their legacy. Thankfully managed to refund it with ease.

  12. #332
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharill View Post
    LOL they seriously unlisted it?

    The bloody cowards. Imagine not even wanting to stand by your own garbage by at least listing the damn thing.

    I mean I knew it had a majority dislike ratio as it deserves but unlisting it? Fucking gets better.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm the goddamn moron who preordered it dude. I don't need to look I actually experienced.

    That game is an insult to Classic Blizzard and their legacy. Thankfully managed to refund it with ease.
    They delisted it because they did not mean to upload it... If they really wanted to get rid of it they would have right out deleted it.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    They delisted it because they did not mean to upload it... If they really wanted to get rid of it they would have right out deleted it.
    Suuuuuuuuuuure they didn't mean to.

    Please just stop. You are flat out embarrassing yourself now dude with this weird crusade to defend a cinematic that is universally/objectively disliked. We get it you like Blizzard and they can do absolutely nothing wrong in your eyes.

    Just like they didn't mean to upload the Azshara finale which went live on Youtube a month before that wing even opened on LFR yes?

    If you're gonna respond to me with another "they didn't mean to" or some other defending them crap then please don't. I deal with enough of that crap with my RL friends every single day in my fucking ear about it.
    Last edited by Kharill; 2020-02-14 at 10:07 AM.

  14. #334
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharill View Post
    Suuuuuuuuuuure they didn't mean to.

    Please just stop. You are flat out embarrassing yourself now dude.

    Just like they didn't mean to upload the Azshara finale which went live on Youtube a month before that wing even opened on LFR yes?
    This is the final boss an expansion. You really think out of their hundreds of videos that get disliked 10 to 1 they just decided to delist this one cause boo hoo? No it was not meant to go up. It went up before the wrathion one for pears sake. It was not meant to go up. And they will make it public when it is. YouTube is annoying about that. Only recently have they fixed the publish schedule system. Before it was very easy to evidently just have a video upload right this and there instead of the date you set.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kharill View Post
    If you're gonna respond to me with another "they didn't mean to" or some other defending them crap then please don't. I deal with enough of that crap with my RL friends every single day in my fucking ear about it.
    Sounds like you're a bad friend. And your friends are pretty cool logical people who don't think right away everything is some massive level multi level conspiracy and go "oh they posted a video, then about 20 minutes later took it down. It can't be because of the dislikes. Cause their channel is full of videos with tens to hundreds of times more dislikes. Obviously they did not mean to upload it. Especially since they uploaded the end cinematic before the start cinematic. Why do you think uploading the final episode of a show before the first is logical?"

    Also let me guess. You actually think blizzard paid off YouTube to delete dislikes on Diablo immortal right?

  15. #335
    It seems lots of people can't look at things objectively. Let's try to make some sort of summary and review of the Old Gods in WoW, story writing in WoW and cinematics in WoW.

    First the Old Gods and the hype:

    - We knew that some number of old gods existed on Azeroth for milenia, we knew they corrupted Deathwing long ago, that they were propably responsible for emerald nightmare alongside Xavius, we knew that old gods created nagas from elves sometime after war of the ancients

    - In WoTLK namewise we knew about C'thun and Yogg-Saron, both of them were dealt in a single patch/raid tier.

    - We knew there were 4 or 5 old gods total on azeroth but they were not named or mentioned more than a sliver of hint till later (For example we knew Neltharion was corrupted by old god, and emerald nightmare was done by an old god but that was it)

    - In Wotlk consensus was that Yogg-Saron was dealt poorely coz C'Thun had a server wide event which culminated in an "Epic" 20 man and 40 man raid, had specific themed gear around him, in raid uniqe mount (and also a raid so big that you had to raid on a mount to get around, and if i remember correctly a single run back to C'thun after wipe was around 10 min) at the same time Yogg-Saron had only raid and a story around Loken which was mostly "dealt" (we discover what happened) with in a single questing zone, and little tid-bits scattered aroung about saronite/black blood of Yogg-Saron (material used to build Icecrown Citadel)

    -In MoP we learned about Y'shaarj and we learned that we did not kill any of the previous old god we mearly dealt with their manifestations and they are still out there (this part was changed later by blizzard when they retconned whole Loken and Yogg-Saron story in storm peaks), coz killing old god connected to azeroth has a major consequences, example being Y'shaarj influence despite beaing dead on pandaria and his heart corrupting Garrosh and still being major influence over Klaxxi.

    - Just before Legion WoW chronicles drop and some of the old god stuff is retconned/modified/added/removed to fit new narrative and direction blizzard and story writers wanted to take, now Old Gods we deafeted were just defeted and send back to slumber but was considered "Dead" but as a one of writers said "I would say we should consider them dead. However as with all things in World of Warcraft and the Warcraft’s universe dead isn’t always dead" so there you have it (also they changed story around Yogg-Saron and Algalon around that time) - it's time were comics are deemed non canon and Medan is removed from the story (I guess ?)

    - In chronicles we learn about Black Empire which was formed by old god after deafing Elemental Lords on Azeroth after Their arrival and then their defeat by Pantheon

    -Some time later name N'zoth was dropped during blizzcon, and it was stated that he played major part in corrupting Neltharion aka Deathwing, that he created emerald nightmare (or corruption within emrald dream, call it as you like), was mentioned that he propably twisted elves into naga.

    - In Legion we got info from Xalathat that there is still lingering major threat, and Ilgynoth was only a messenger/harbringer of what is to come in future, we heard name Ny'alotha

    - In BFA all of the above about N'zoth was confirmed or witnesed firsthand.

    I am not a lore expert, just a small fan so i might have missed some things here and there.

    So there is some truth to the words that N'Zoth storyline is a long one, and definitely there was some hype coming from Legion to BFA about him. Also the narrative blizard took showcasing N'zoth in recent years was that despite beaing the weakes he achieved a lot more than others coz he was the smartest, the most clever one, schemer, a grand planer who played a grand game on azeroth pushing puzzle pices slowly but steadily to achieve his goal - ressurection of black empire

    Also we should consider it was the first old god who escaped his prison fully and we could gaze at his full power. So it might be some dissapointment to some that this might game wise is seen as two recolored two zones and 3-4 visions of alterne future, C'thun and Yogg got one zone dedicated to them, and Y'shaarj infuleced whole continent and corrupted warchief of the horde just by being dead (they all got raid and on that level I treat them as equals).

    I have nothing agains that there was that ingame cinematic with us as heroes, cool. But there should be a cinematic wrapping up this whole invasion a bit more tha two crumbling structures. We can feel a bit dissapointed after we was baited to care about Nzoth and his plans. Becouse storywise its was narrated that we, that we should care, that this is a big deal, really big deal, he is out of prison, and he is ressurecting a black empire which last time was defeated only after Pantheon , dragon aspects and serveral others combined forces. Plus it was some kind of tradition to end expansion with cool cinematic which setted stage for upcoming expansion. Now we don;t have it. And i agre propably there was no time and money to do so after dropping every human resource into Shadowlands and spending a lot of the money for other cinematics which was very high quality this expansion. But i prsonally would prefer 1 less cinematic with Thrall and Saurfang and get one epic cinematic at the end.
    Storytelling is different, but not always great, i get a feeling that there is no a lot planned ahead in tearms of story and how to progressto it naturally and a lot of the time the story we get is not equally good to what we were made to belive it will be. This is especialy seen in patch 8.3 which was rushed in terms of content, and story was lacking if we get to account what i wrote earlier about old gods and nzoth.

    Overall its not a problem that we deal with Nzoth in single Patch, but the problem is this patch is a bit underwheling story wise, thats it.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmatrix View Post
    Yeah, its not like we ended killing a Alliance commander who sacrificed soldiers to G'hun after siding with the Blood Trolls. We raided Uldir because there was an old god inside and that is pretty much all the reason any veteran adventurer would need.
    you mean that whole 5 minutes of questing ?

    I know having an old god there is good enough reason, I was mostly sarcastic about lack of content for the alliance to go there and do that.
    if it was a realistic war, I would have sit and watch as my enemy struggle with ghuun. any of the two outcomes would be acceptable for me. first would be trolls defeating ghuun with high casualty and it was a win win as I didnt need to waste a soldier for ghuun and my enemy is now weaker cause of that.
    second scenario would be ghuun defeating trolls, which then means horde is denied of a powerful ally and then I step into action only when it was necessary to do so.

    so again, my point being, why waste your troops while in a war to cleanse the lands of the enemy for them.

  17. #337
    The Patient sykretts's Avatar
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    For me it's less that they used the heart of azeroth and the "you're the champion on azeroth" mind control break gimmick, and more to do with the art direction itself.
    I would've preferred the entire cutscene to be a proper cinematic style one rather than an in-game one. It disappoints just because of the janky animations, the lackluster VFX, etc. It looks like it lacks polish, and like it's rushed, which it probably was.
    Nzoth deserved more of a cinematic treatment than fucking anduin or saurfang. That's where my anger lies. Instead we get to watch a cheap CG homage of LOTR tower collapse and cheap light crack vfx on nyalotha structures. It was not made out of respect or love, it was made out of haste and pushed out just so we could have an end-"cinematic".

    If it had more polish, I wouldn't be half as mad. Nzoth was wasted man, completely. It's just sad.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Corruptus View Post
    Well, the wound is still "bleeding" with the sword in it. Also can't wait for some kind of "new threat" to come to the planet and just push the sword in, if it's left there.
    The sword itself isn't causing the bleeding, the sword seeping corruption caused the bleeding and us running around was fixing the aftermath.

  19. #339
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    I felt that the closing cinematic for the Ny'alotha raid was pretty bad, especially for an expansion's coda so to speak, where one expects a bit more fanfare as well as a lead-in to the next expansion or at least a solid denouement for the current one. That being said, I think the Saurfang vs. Sylvanas Mak'gora and the close of the Fourth War content in 8.2.5 was the *real* closing content of BfA, and 8.3 is itself more of a filler patch to give us something to do before Shadowlands hits. This is why N'Zoth is sort of dealt with in a haphazard and strangely quick fashion, and why it feels like there's little to no lead-up to his invading Black Empire/Ny'alotha and so forth. This is my hypothesis in any case.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  20. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    I don't get it.

    Nyalotha book-ends Uldir, with lots of parallels in each raid. We spend the entire 8.3 patch taking over and re-energizing the reorigination array. In the raid itself we are placing anchor-points to target the thing.

    Then we get to the final boss, fighting in his literal brain, at the end of it we succumb to his madness but then get a whisper from the Speaker Magni that allows us to rally and we use our heart of Azeroth to act as the final anchor point and to channel the reorigination array. Ending N'Zoth and freeing Azeroth from the corruption of the final Old God.

    Now I get that there's still the loose-end of the giant freakin' sword in Silithis, though there's an implication from Magni that now that N'Zoth is gone Azeroth will be able to finally heal herself. Kinda like using anti-biotics to cure a nasty infection which then let's a septic cut heal up since the body isn't fighting the infection anymore.

    But what exactly is the problem?
    A half-assed in-game cutscene with absolute dogshit animations just copy / pasted from already existing animations in the game, no lip synch, tension, nothing. That's how they end an expansion and one of the most built up villains in the game to date. If you don't get that, I don't know what to tell you.

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