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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    But what exactly is the problem?
    Personally, I have a problem with the writing when a mere group of mortal, me and guild mates, are able to take down some of mightiest villains to walk on Azeroth etc.

    Some I can accept, Arthas. Garrosh. There were mortals like me until they went a little power hungry.

    But against Sargaeras, old gods, etc. I find that a little hard to accept. What is stop me now from taking over?

    I would preferred to our characters played a part, a big part, but it should not necessary be us. If I use LoTR as a example. The big hero did not destroy the ring. It was a halfling. Aragon et al played a big part sure, but there were others. I would have preferred if the writing were more along this line rather me save the day. Again.

    And we do not necessary have to kill any of these fable characters. Just defeat them. Push them back.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Yes there was A LOT of build up, and yes we did win with a meme beam in the end. But we were never going to lose, unfortunately. N'zoth did take control of us before the heart broke us out, he did "win". There are only a few bosses who have ever won, the lich king killed us, argus killed us, queen azshara free'd n'zoth despite losing, and n'zoth took over our minds but azeroth saved us.

    Sure, it wasn't the ending a lot of us wanted, and maybe it felt rushed, but this was a storyline building since EN - Is that really rushed?

    Truly, what did we expect? lol
    Uh... the N'zoth specific portion of the old god story started in Cata. Cata, Pandaland and Legion were all specifically entirely about N'zoth. I can't speak to WoD there, but WoD was more generically old god than N'zoth specifically.

    Vanilla, TBC and WotLK were also old god expansions, with more focus on the other old gods and less on N'zoth. They're the N'zoth origin story, more or less. They explain how we helped N'zoth become more powerful by defeating his rivals.


    The Story of WoW (aka how N'zoth tried to rule the universe):

    Vanilla: we learn that we are created via old god corruption of the titans work. We are the children of N'zoth, and other old gods are around trying to kill our planet. We stop one of the old gods that we find, which was believed to be impossible previously. This is when we first begin executing N'zoth's plan in creating us: we eliminate one of his rivals.

    TBC: we learn that one of the titans is also trying to stop the old gods, and will kill us as a side effect. We don't want to die, so we stop him. This is the second step in executing N'zoth's plan, we prevent Sargeras from killing N'zoth.

    WotLK: we learn that another old god created the Lich King and has been controlling him through the throne in Northrend. We kill both of them. This is the third step in executing N'zoth's plan, eliminating another rival.

    Cata: we find out N'zoth made Deathwing go insane and try to kill off large parts of the planet. We defeat Deathwing, but, we still help N'zoth... we convince the dragon aspects to give up their power from the titans to beat Deathwing, giving N'zoth more control over the planet. The fourth step in N'zoth's plan.

    Pandaria: we find out that Pandaria still exists and is corrupted with the heart of Y'Shaarj, a rival that N'zoth thought he need not worry about due to being killed by the titans. Garrosh attempts to revive this old god so that he can use the power to defeat the Alliance. We learn a lot about prophecies around the final old god, related factions like Klaxxi and Mogu, and introduce Wrathion and Ra-Den as key players in the N'zoth story. We ultimately remove the remaining rival old god, the fifth step in N'zoth's plan.

    WoD: a bit of a sidestory, the real purpose is to find a way to get the Legion back to Azeroth. Unclear if this is part of N'zoth's plan or not. He may have done so on purpose so that we could defeat Sargeras for him in Legion, or that could have been improvised later. The alternate timeline thing also leaves open a doorway to a universe where the old gods are still alive. They could come back at any time.

    Legion: we face off against Sargeras to save N'zoth from certain death (oh and Azeroth too). We save N'zoth but oopsie let Azeroth get mortally wounded. This makes it easier for N'zoth to corrupt her, but he can't allow her to die. The sixth step in N'zoth's plan is complete.

    BFA: we eliminate G'huun, potentially a N'zoth rival (but probably not) and learn how to kill old gods more effectively. Previous old gods were killed while imprisoned, so this is important as we would not otherwise be able to kill N'zoth. Unclear if this is part of N'zoth's plan.

    But we learn to heal Azeroth, which N'zoth needs us to do so she doesn't die before he corrupts her. We have a bit of a detour with the faction war bits, as N'zoth softens up our numbers. He doesn't want too many of us alive. Definitely the seventh step of N'zoth's plan.

    The rest is more straightforward, and then obscured. We execute step eight by freeing N'zoth from the titan prison. We indirectly send off Sylvanas, Azshara and Xal'atath in search of the "true throne of power" unsure which of them may be acting in N'zoth's best interests (potentially all of them). Then finally begin step nine. We go to N'zoth, our father, and fall to his corruption. We stab him with the empty dagger, like he planned. Then we use what we learned in Uldir to "kill" him. It is unclear if this was part of the plan or not. We won't know until Shadowlands (or beyond).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    Only 1 old God is completely dead. They are much like the loa, when killed they recharge and eventually can come back. So in his case being soaked in azerite for an extended period should have some pretty extreme results.
    Blizzard has directly stated that all of the old gods except N'zoth were fully dead by the start of BFA. This was in response to people speculating about the images of C'thun and Yogg Saron in Uldir.

    But: dead doesn't mean the same thing for old gods as it does for mortals. Among other things, dead old gods go to a void realm to regenerate when killed. Similar to how demons go to a fel realm to regenerate when killed. For a while Sargeras had made that regeneration for demons instant, so they could just keep coming back. We've slowed it down, but the demons still regenerate unless we go to the fel universe and kill them for real.

    Given that the next expansion teaches us about how our own death realm works and how souls of people on Azeroth transform and regenerate on death, it is very likely setting the stage for the old gods to regenerate in the expansion after Shadowlands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Why didn't Bowser just build a wall high enough Mario couldn't jump over?

    That is what some of the comments in this thread amount to.
    That's what most of the comments on all of MMO-C and Wowhead amount to.

    And if Bowser did build a wall high enough, they'd say the story was boring and contrived.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  3. #363
    Warchief Wangming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharill View Post
    Oh I know that since MoP. I've more been giving them the benefit of the doubt on gameplay and to be honest BFA was just atrociously bad. Systems designed to timegate you into oblivion, RNG aspects to gearing everywhere and just an overall quality I don't expect from a company such as Blizzard.

    Unless they pull some serious miracle for Shadowlands which let's face it they won't I'm not returning to this heap of a mess.
    We can only hope. The premise of the expansion is already stupid and forshadows a bunch of dumb retcons, but if they do the unpruning and the level squish right enough, the leveling might not suck anymore. Oh and finall in 2020 we will be able to change eye color during character customization. Well unless you are a draenei, elf, undead, Death Knight or Demon Hunter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post

    The Story of WoW (aka how N'zoth tried to rule the universe):
    That's some insane level mental gymnastics you are trying to pull in a deperate attemp to paint N'Zoth as some expert manipulator and Blizzard as the geniuses who are telling a cohesive story instead of the mess we are given.

  4. #364
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sykretts View Post
    For me it's less that they used the heart of azeroth and the "you're the champion on azeroth" mind control break gimmick, and more to do with the art direction itself.
    I would've preferred the entire cutscene to be a proper cinematic style one rather than an in-game one. It disappoints just because of the janky animations, the lackluster VFX, etc. It looks like it lacks polish, and like it's rushed, which it probably was.
    Nzoth deserved more of a cinematic treatment than fucking anduin or saurfang. That's where my anger lies. Instead we get to watch a cheap CG homage of LOTR tower collapse and cheap light crack vfx on nyalotha structures. It was not made out of respect or love, it was made out of haste and pushed out just so we could have an end-"cinematic".

    If it had more polish, I wouldn't be half as mad. Nzoth was wasted man, completely. It's just sad.
    1. to include the player charecter they cant have a rendered cutscene, so it has to use the ingame stuff, so that is why it looks "cheap"
    you are comparing it to other games where you player charecter is not customizeable, or does not even show in the cinematics, therefore the cutscenes can be pre-rendered.

    2. also again, its not lotr and its not cheap light crack vfx. i dont think you know how hard it is to make cinematics like that, that you think it was just "pushed out"

  5. #365
    Personally I just find it astounding that Blizzard have gone from this.



    To a fucking universally disliked 30 second Return of the King ripoff that they are so embarrassed about they unlisted from their channel.

    Even this.....



    Something that is far more up to date in terms of graphical quality is of better overall quality than that piece of shit ripoff cinematic. Like seriously it actually has impact the KJ cinematic from 7.2 and even made you feel sorry for him. When a cinematic makes you feel sorry for the villain you know it's done a good job.

    I just wonder what's going on at Blizzard. Especially with all the other controversies they've been causing themselves as of late.
    Last edited by Kharill; 2020-02-14 at 09:25 PM.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    I don't get it.

    Nyalotha book-ends Uldir, with lots of parallels in each raid. We spend the entire 8.3 patch taking over and re-energizing the reorigination array. In the raid itself we are placing anchor-points to target the thing.

    Then we get to the final boss, fighting in his literal brain, at the end of it we succumb to his madness but then get a whisper from the Speaker Magni that allows us to rally and we use our heart of Azeroth to act as the final anchor point and to channel the reorigination array. Ending N'Zoth and freeing Azeroth from the corruption of the final Old God.

    Now I get that there's still the loose-end of the giant freakin' sword in Silithis, though there's an implication from Magni that now that N'Zoth is gone Azeroth will be able to finally heal herself. Kinda like using anti-biotics to cure a nasty infection which then let's a septic cut heal up since the body isn't fighting the infection anymore.

    But what exactly is the problem?
    did you watch Lord or the Rings? they literally copyed the ending even with the same music lol

  7. #367
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    did you watch Lord or the Rings? they literally copyed the ending even with the same music lol
    i have.
    and no they did not.
    same music? no, not even close, they are both similar cause they are both fantasy chorus based songs.
    but that has been wow's music style since the old games.

    IDK if you know but genre have "generic music"
    Fantasy goes with a lot of stuff like in here, flutes, distant drums, chimes, choir, etc.
    so yeah, if you compare music from 2 of the same genre they will sound alike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    I would preferred to our characters played a part, a big part, but it should not necessary be us. If I use LoTR as a example. The big hero did not destroy the ring. It was a halfling. Aragon et al played a big part sure, but there were others. I would have preferred if the writing were more along this line rather me save the day. Again.
    so you wanted thrall taking our kill again? do you remember how many people were pissed off about that?

  8. #368
    It's an amalgamation of many disappointing factors that finally boiled over. You have a character they spent so long building up since cataclysm that manipulated much of the events for thousands upon thousands of years despite being the weakest he was the most influential of all the old gods that was hinted to be the mastermind behind many events some we won't understand and some that were playing out right before our eyes, all of that gone down the drain without much fanfare and as another theme-park style raid.

    They would of made a better story as us weakening N'Zoth by expending the power we collected through our journey and finish him for good by going into the Shadow Lands where his influence was hinted to be at it's highest as there were a lot of hints to old god influence in said location.

  9. #369
    Imagine not being disappointed with that snore fest of an ending.

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    Personally, I have a problem with the writing when a mere group of mortal, me and guild mates, are able to take down some of mightiest villains to walk on Azeroth etc.

    Some I can accept, Arthas. Garrosh. There were mortals like me until they went a little power hungry.

    But against Sargaeras, old gods, etc. I find that a little hard to accept. What is stop me now from taking over?

    I would preferred to our characters played a part, a big part, but it should not necessary be us. If I use LoTR as a example. The big hero did not destroy the ring. It was a halfling. Aragon et al played a big part sure, but there were others. I would have preferred if the writing were more along this line rather me save the day. Again.

    And we do not necessary have to kill any of these fable characters. Just defeat them. Push them back.
    You're a sparkplug, not the actual weapon.

    It's not blizz fault you can't read

    The entire expac is about rebuilding the reorigination array, a giant fuckoff weapon that we've had entire raids devoted to avoiding it being turned on and blasting us out of existence - and because they use the heart of azeroth - an important tool in rebuilding the array - as a focusing point to fire the thing at n'zoth now you're saying that players are the be all end all?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldielocks View Post
    Imagine not being disappointed with that snore fest of an ending.
    How bout you not hype yourself up with shit they never hinted at so you don't fall off the deep end when they do what they always planned to do.

    Entire expac we're rebuilding the array and charging up the heart, what'd you think the end was gonna be?

  11. #371
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    Then it just means bad planning i guess. Instead of having the climax of the story in the end, we had it midway with Sylvanas and now N'zoths encounter feel a bit...weak.

    Maybe the rumors were true? That after setting up Shadowlands with Sylvanas betraying the Horde, the rest of the expansion is just a bit "filler".
    Perhaps. It's arguable that the best story-telling in the entire expansion (and maybe in some years) was in that 23 minutes of cinematic about the Varok-Saurfang Mak'gor. Personally I question the whole premise of us knocking off old gods in raids but that's been happening forever. I had problems with the entire idea about a raid-sized group taking down Deathwing and we know how that turned out.

    I don't know if 8.3 is filler as such or a more elaborate setup for Shadowlands. Either way I get the ambivalence about how it's worked out. I could also argue that the predictability of the story-telling in expansions is also bad and needed to be shaken up. There's no question in my mind that story arcs are mishandled badly by the lore team however one feels about it.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    Personally, I have a problem with the writing when a mere group of mortal, me and guild mates, are able to take down some of mightiest villains to walk on Azeroth etc.

    Some I can accept, Arthas. Garrosh. There were mortals like me until they went a little power hungry.

    But against Sargaeras, old gods, etc. I find that a little hard to accept. What is stop me now from taking over?

    I would preferred to our characters played a part, a big part, but it should not necessary be us. If I use LoTR as a example. The big hero did not destroy the ring. It was a halfling. Aragon et al played a big part sure, but there were others. I would have preferred if the writing were more along this line rather me save the day. Again.

    And we do not necessary have to kill any of these fable characters. Just defeat them. Push them back.
    I'd say there's a good chance in the "official" lore that it was Wrathion who did it all and not us.

    Anyway, in the cases of us fighting Sargeras and the OGs in both cases we've been pumped up pretty hard. In Legion we are holding the most powerful weapons on Azeroth - and in some cases in the universe. In BfA we have the Heart of Azeroth and we also aren't the ones that really strike the blow so much as enable the Reorigination array to lock on and fire being channeled through our Heart of Azeroth.

    We are basically targeted chemotherapy. We're the dyes that identify the tumor so that they can blast it with radiation from the outside.

    We also haven't killed Sargeras, he's locked away for use again here any old time. They've already hinted that the OGs won a victory there - either because the Burning Legion is now no longer a threat since it's completely leaderless, that the Titans are now locked away in some pocket dimension so the Void Lords are completely unchecked, or because they snuck in the curse of flesh with us simply by having mortals at the seat of the Pantheon and we carried the corruption of the OGs with us.

    As for N'Zoth, they definitely should have communicated it in more than just that final cinematic, but the reason Azeroth isn't healing is because the planet is too busy fighting the OG corruption to deal with healing the wound from Sargeras. Kinda like if you have a cold it can take longer for a cut to heal, or how if you have scurvy not only will new cuts take longer to heal but old wounds can open up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    That and Sargeras only wanted to kill Azeroth because he had visions that she would fall to corruption from the old gods and destroy the universe.

    Now that we've stopped that, Sargeras would willingly team up with us and Azerote to purge the void from the universe.
    Say what?

    No.

    Sargeras wants to burn down the entirety of the universe and remake it without any of the corruption of the OGs and Void Lords.

    The rest of the Titans see that as not only unfeasible but damaging to their desired order.

    Although really anyone that sees the Titans as "good" rather than "lawful" is making a huge mistake. Even without Sargeras we know that they've bathed countless worlds in flame. They care more about order than they do life, but it gets really complicated since there's natural organic life and then there's the curse of flesh that can turn titanic constructs into fleshly beings. Plus the OGs can infect regular old organic life too.

    So I'd say imagine the Titans as gardeners. Sure they don't want to pull out a plant but if it gets covered with enough aphids they have zero problem with ripping it out and throwing it into the burn pile.

  13. #373
    Sadly, Blizzard's writing has gone the way of the dodo...
    RIP good story-telling and characters that matter.

    #Wowcharactersmatter
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  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Like I said, Sargeras is a moron. KILL AZEROTH IMMEDIATELY. Holy crap.

    I'm sure the last thought running thru Sargeras' head as he got jailed was "fuck! I'm an idiot for not cleaving this planet".
    He wanted to corrupt Azeroth and make her part of his Dark Pantheon. This was stated in the Scepter of Sargeras lore journal warlocks get.

    Stabbing Azeroth was a last ditch effort. Basically, "If I can't have her, no-one will!".

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    I don't get it.

    Nyalotha book-ends Uldir, with lots of parallels in each raid. We spend the entire 8.3 patch taking over and re-energizing the reorigination array. In the raid itself we are placing anchor-points to target the thing.

    Then we get to the final boss, fighting in his literal brain, at the end of it we succumb to his madness but then get a whisper from the Speaker Magni that allows us to rally and we use our heart of Azeroth to act as the final anchor point and to channel the reorigination array. Ending N'Zoth and freeing Azeroth from the corruption of the final Old God.

    Now I get that there's still the loose-end of the giant freakin' sword in Silithis, though there's an implication from Magni that now that N'Zoth is gone Azeroth will be able to finally heal herself. Kinda like using anti-biotics to cure a nasty infection which then let's a septic cut heal up since the body isn't fighting the infection anymore.

    But what exactly is the problem?
    Here there will be anger over anything and everything Blizzard does.

  16. #376
    Quote Originally Posted by BreakerOfWills View Post
    You're a sparkplug, not the actual weapon.
    It's not blizz fault you can't read
    It seems it takes one to know one. You seems to have missed other part of the post.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    They delisted it because they did not mean to upload it... If they really wanted to get rid of it they would have right out deleted it.
    My god you'll spin any narrative you can to try and defend Blizzard. Sad.

    "They just accidentally pulled the file and spent time uploading it. Then they left it there for a whole day and then they corrected their mistake. Please believe me guys, I love Blizzard."

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDays View Post
    My god you'll spin any narrative you can to try and defend Blizzard. Sad.

    "They just accidentally pulled the file and spent time uploading it. Then they left it there for a whole day and then they corrected their mistake. Please believe me guys, I love Blizzard."
    Well the ending of argus still isn't public on their channel either. It would sorta make sense not to spoil the ending of an expansion to anyone subscribed to their channel that have not completed the raid yet (no matter how bad you think the ending is). It also makes sense to upload it as unlisted if you want to embed it somewhere (like they have) in an environment where it has been made clear that the page contains spoilers. You can also see that other videos they have upload have similar or worse up/downvote ratios and have not been hidden.

    But sure, sad.

    edit: Again, im not defending the cinematic. Just criticize things that actually exist. Seriously if you can outright delete a video (and upload it again to reset ratios) why on earth would you delist it if you were afraid of bad pr.
    Last edited by Cthulhu fhtagn; 2020-02-15 at 05:03 AM.

  19. #379
    Imagine the death of Illidan during BC. We are then told the next expansion would be a faction conflict in Northrend. The Scourge operate in the background. We'll call this expansion: Battle for Northrend (BFN). We then have a Naxxramas raid in patch 3.2. Patch 3.3 comes out and it's all "GO KILL THE LICH KING HE'S UNLEASHED THE SCOURGE ON AZEROTH OH NO." but it's just a couple zones no one goes to, anymore. Then the raid comes out. Lich King dies. That's it. He dies. That's the cinematic. "No king rules forever"? "I see only darkness before me"? Nope. He just dies in a 20 second cutscene.

    That's the treatment N'zoth got.

  20. #380
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDays View Post
    My god you'll spin any narrative you can to try and defend Blizzard. Sad.

    "They just accidentally pulled the file and spent time uploading it. Then they left it there for a whole day and then they corrected their mistake. Please believe me guys, I love Blizzard."
    It was not a whole day, it wasnt even an hour. they delisted it then uploaded the correct one.
    you will spin any narrative to try and shit on them, you really think out of ALL o fthe videos of theirs that have massive dislikes they would just happen to only delist this one cause "its bad"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    Imagine the death of Illidan during BC. We are then told the next expansion would be a faction conflict in Northrend. The Scourge operate in the background. We'll call this expansion: Battle for Northrend (BFN). We then have a Naxxramas raid in patch 3.2. Patch 3.3 comes out and it's all "GO KILL THE LICH KING HE'S UNLEASHED THE SCOURGE ON AZEROTH OH NO." but it's just a couple zones no one goes to, anymore. Then the raid comes out. Lich King dies. That's it. He dies. That's the cinematic. "No king rules forever"? "I see only darkness before me"? Nope. He just dies in a 20 second cutscene.

    That's the treatment N'zoth got.
    i mean arthas dies in the first few seconds of the cinematic... most of the cinematic is tirion and bolvar chatting...

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