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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Props for an amazing sentence. Elegantly desbribing BfA with so few words, yet presenting such an effective unpleasant mental image to really slam home the "quality" of this expansion.
    Stooping to profanities or hyperbole to make a point is not what I call elegant.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    • Ten years spent building up to the final old god.
    • Six years hyping up the old god threat, since Sargeras was so terrified of them that is why he created the Legion in the first place.
    • Four years hyping N'zoth's master plan, what with the Emerald Nightmare raid and the whispers from Xal'atath.
    • One year hyping N'zoth wrecking Azeroth after he was released at the end of the Azshara raid.
    • N'zoth finally takes center stage.
    • lol he had no plan at all and falls over to a DBZ laser beam, having accomplished absolutely nothing.
    ^^^^ cannot be over stated enough

  3. #383
    I guess the main issue people had with it, is that it was not on par with the previous buildup. Was anticlimatic.
    But lets not forget that the main reason people are angry, is because its made by Blizzard. Its trendy to shit on everything blizzard does now days. Wether you dissagree with what they do or not

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Dastreus View Post
    Imagine the death of Illidan during BC. We are then told the next expansion would be a faction conflict in Northrend. The Scourge operate in the background. We'll call this expansion: Battle for Northrend (BFN). We then have a Naxxramas raid in patch 3.2. Patch 3.3 comes out and it's all "GO KILL THE LICH KING HE'S UNLEASHED THE SCOURGE ON AZEROTH OH NO." but it's just a couple zones no one goes to, anymore. Then the raid comes out. Lich King dies. That's it. He dies. That's the cinematic. "No king rules forever"? "I see only darkness before me"? Nope. He just dies in a 20 second cutscene.

    That's the treatment N'zoth got.
    Northrend was a huge faction conflict.

    Don't you remember the distrust before the combined assault at the Wrathgate followed by the Forsaken betrayal? Or the fight to control Icecrown and going around killing wounded enemy (and same) faction soldiers so they wouldn't turn into the undead? Or you know, Gunship?

    I mean I get what you're saying that you wanted a close and personal N'Zoth the way Arthas was in WotLK, but frankly wasn't dealing with whispering throughout the crucible patch enough for you?

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Stooping to profanities or hyperbole to make a point is not what I call elegant.
    I've always operated under the definition of elegant as "Simple yet effective". Although I understand there are often more pleasing definitions.

    I think the way it was described really slams home the point. Despite blizzard sort of listening, they basically misinterpreted or screwed up at every turn. BFA is an outright bad expansion that cut corners at every opportunity. And given that, it deserves every ounce of ridicule and profanity thrown at it so Blizzard understands how absolutely unacceptable that lack of quality is.

  6. #386
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
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    Hell if I know. For some reason people expected a notoriously minor side threat to put up more of a fight.

  7. #387
    Maybe Shadowlands will be awesome legion level
    We are supposed to get a good expac after a bad one right?

  8. #388
    The Patient sykretts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    1. to include the player charecter they cant have a rendered cutscene, so it has to use the ingame stuff, so that is why it looks "cheap"
    you are comparing it to other games where you player charecter is not customizeable, or does not even show in the cinematics, therefore the cutscenes can be pre-rendered.

    2. also again, its not lotr and its not cheap light crack vfx. i dont think you know how hard it is to make cinematics like that, that you think it was just "pushed out"
    How dumb do you think people you deal with on the internet are on average?

    1. Yeah, obviously you cannot have a rendered cut scene with the player character in it, thanks for that captain obvious. My idea behind what I typed was that we could've had the whole "you're the champion of azeroth" bit BEFORE any cutscene played. It's very easy to have it all done with in-game dialogue and an actual mini-event at the end of the boss fight where you see your character lose all control and walk towards N'zoth and then after a dialogue from magni, you re-gain control and get to use the heart of azeroth yourself by clicking a button after which the actual cinematic plays. After that point, they could have a proper 2min+ rendered cutscene with the destruction of nzoth, with at least some dialogue, maybe some foreshadowing, and then the whole destruction/cleansing of Ny'alotha. The problem was, we only got the last bit, with the destruction of ny'alotha after nzoth falls over, with no dialogue or nothing while the player is channeling the azerite beam. It's just crappy direction. Clearly i'm putting more thought into the direction of the cinematic than they did, which tells me they were short on time and had to rush out a version that took less production time overall even if it came at the cost of an underwhelming story beat.

    2. It IS LOTR, Ion said as much in his recent interview. Way to do your research before getting on the high horse. And no, it's not hard to make cinematics like that at all. It takes roughly 3 days of work for something of that sort and that length. You just need to animate the buildings crumbling, of which there were only 2 from what I could see - the tower and the entrance to vexiona's side of the raid. There was nothing else crumbling, they covered it all with a light mask which just made the screen blank/white at the end. You just need to draw a 2d shape that animates to appear bit by bit and then increase it's luminescence and intensity value while throwing a white-ish color until eventually the intensity is maxed and covers the whole screen. The only challenging bit is the lighting of the scene which should take about a day. Allowing the render to take place for 1-2 days, it probably took them less than 5 days to have that whole "cutscene" ready. That's literally no effort when you take into account it's a AAA game with a massive budget.

    Do me a favor, if you ever see any of my posts ever again, don't respond to them. Every thread where you and I have gone at it, has just been a massive waste of my time because you have no context to back yourself on. It's like talking to a wall, and I don't enjoy it one bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    Hell if I know. For some reason people expected a notoriously minor side threat to put up more of a fight.

    "notoriously minor", ok.

    * Responsible for creation of deathwing - check
    * Responsible for Queen Azshara and the Naga existing post sundering - check
    * Responsible for corrupting the prime keeper Ra'Den - check
    * Responsible for massive corruption of Emerald Nightmare, messing with creation along with Yogg-saron - check
    * Got 2 Major elemental lords (Al'akir and Ragnaros) to bow down and serve him - check
    * Responsible for Twilight Dragonflight existing - check

    All this and I maybe forgetting 1-2 things here and there. "Notoriously minor".

    One can see why someone who's been that influential in wow lore and expansions so far was expected to have a grander exit. You know, those who can see the bigger picture. Definitely not those of you who only saw a couple bits and considered him "notoriously minor".
    Last edited by sykretts; 2020-02-15 at 02:58 PM.

  9. #389
    Herald of the Titans Lora's Avatar
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    not mad so much as disappointed. it was completely a lackluster ending to a fucking OLD GOD. the last old god since the rest are all dealt with already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uggorthaholy View Post
    Thanks but no thanks, Lora, for making me question everything in existence forever.

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by sykretts View Post
    "notoriously minor", ok.

    * Responsible for creation of deathwing - check
    * Responsible for Queen Azshara and the Naga existing post sundering - check
    * Responsible for corrupting the prime keeper Ra'Den - check
    * Responsible for massive corruption of Emerald Nightmare, messing with creation along with Yogg-saron - check
    * Got 2 Major elemental lords (Al'akir and Ragnaros) to bow down and serve him - check
    * Responsible for Twilight Dragonflight existing - check

    All this and I maybe forgetting 1-2 things here and there. "Notoriously minor".

    One can see why someone who's been that influential in wow lore and expansions so far was expected to have a grander exit. You know, those who can see the bigger picture. Definitely not those of you who only saw a couple bits and considered him "notoriously minor".
    Right?

    But I'm sure when Metzen gave us the name N'Zoth at the Blizzcon where they announced Cataclysm, he had always planned for him to go out the same way Deathwing did, but worse and in a 20 sec cutscene, where it really didn't matter if the player character failed, they still did their duty as kamehameha anchor.

  11. #391
    Epic! Redroniksre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Right?

    But I'm sure when Metzen gave us the name N'Zoth at the Blizzcon where they announced Cataclysm, he had always planned for him to go out the same way Deathwing did, but worse and in a 20 sec cutscene, where it really didn't matter if the player character failed, they still did their duty as kamehameha anchor.
    Nah if it was Metzen you can bet your ass that Thrall would of showed up and did the Kamehameha instead to wipe out N'zoth. Then he would of once again reunited the factions for the 30th time before wandering off to find himself.

  12. #392
    I think the saddest part of all this are the people defending it.

    Basically people are admitting "yeah Blizz we're fine with a shitty 30 second low quality cinematic that rips off ROTK and DB".

    And the fucking sad part is because of all the white knights Blizzard will just do it again because they know they can get away with it.

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I've always operated under the definition of elegant as "Simple yet effective".
    Smashing something with a hammer is arguably both simple and effective, but hardly elegant.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeOculus View Post

    Also, old gods are only agents of the Void Lords, which are still out there. Also we did beat two other old gods before and nzoth was actually weaker in some ways than the other two faced.
    Yet, both C'thun and Yogg-Saron, were not the final bosses in vanilla and wotlk, while so much stronger than N'zoth...hm......guess what, thats not even close to be true.

    In game you see in patch 8.3. N'zoth is the most powerful of the old gods, he basicly influenced the very existence itself you see it in uldum and vale and some visions in the intro of 8.3.

    He also just brings Azshara back from the dead like its nobodies business.

    He is pretty, damn powerful with the mind and perhaps has the weakest physical body - and the lore stuff about him beeing the weakest of the old gods(in terms of power?), is something i would expect a retcon. It simply is very contradicting of what N'zoth is capable of.

    The other old gods never showed as much power.

    Maybe he got empowered by the death of the other old gods? He tooks everything they had over and is the sole ruler of N'yalotha.

  15. #395
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    Yet, both C'thun and Yogg-Saron, were not the final bosses in vanilla and wotlk, while so much stronger than N'zoth...hm......guess what, thats not even close to be true.

    In game you see in patch 8.3. N'zoth is the most powerful of the old gods, he basicly influenced the very existence itself you see it in uldum and vale and some visions in the intro of 8.3.

    He also just brings Azshara back from the dead like its nobodies business.

    He is pretty, damn powerful with the mind and perhaps has the weakest physical body - and the lore stuff about him beeing the weakest of the old gods(in terms of power?), is something i would expect a retcon. It simply is very contradicting of what N'zoth is capable of.

    The other old gods never showed as much power.

    Maybe he got empowered by the death of the other old gods? He tooks everything they had over and is the sole ruler of N'yalotha.
    We fought imprisoned, weakend and mostly avatars of old gods. This was the first time the old god was free to from any prison or shackles. He maybe weakest but it is only old god in full strenght that we face.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Smashing something with a hammer is arguably both simple and effective, but hardly elegant.
    And yet some of the most beautiful swords in the world are made with a hammer. A simple, but effective, tool.

    Look, the point here is that we have tried being reasonable, and providing metric tons of feedback to blizzard. They either misinterpreted it, or ignored it. So now what they get is anger, derision, hyperbole, and profanity. Your argument about elegance might carry more weight if Blizzard had been more communicative and reasonable with players. But they haven't done that, have they?

    So players are going to vent, elegant or not.

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by sykretts View Post
    How dumb do you think people you deal with on the internet are on average?

    1. Yeah, obviously you cannot have a rendered cut scene with the player character in it, thanks for that captain obvious. My idea behind what I typed was that we could've had the whole "you're the champion of azeroth" bit BEFORE any cutscene played. It's very easy to have it all done with in-game dialogue and an actual mini-event at the end of the boss fight where you see your character lose all control and walk towards N'zoth and then after a dialogue from magni, you re-gain control and get to use the heart of azeroth yourself by clicking a button after which the actual cinematic plays. After that point, they could have a proper 2min+ rendered cutscene with the destruction of nzoth, with at least some dialogue, maybe some foreshadowing, and then the whole destruction/cleansing of Ny'alotha. The problem was, we only got the last bit, with the destruction of ny'alotha after nzoth falls over, with no dialogue or nothing while the player is channeling the azerite beam. It's just crappy direction. Clearly i'm putting more thought into the direction of the cinematic than they did, which tells me they were short on time and had to rush out a version that took less production time overall even if it came at the cost of an underwhelming story beat.

    2. It IS LOTR, Ion said as much in his recent interview. Way to do your research before getting on the high horse. And no, it's not hard to make cinematics like that at all. It takes roughly 3 days of work for something of that sort and that length. You just need to animate the buildings crumbling, of which there were only 2 from what I could see - the tower and the entrance to vexiona's side of the raid. There was nothing else crumbling, they covered it all with a light mask which just made the screen blank/white at the end. You just need to draw a 2d shape that animates to appear bit by bit and then increase it's luminescence and intensity value while throwing a white-ish color until eventually the intensity is maxed and covers the whole screen. The only challenging bit is the lighting of the scene which should take about a day. Allowing the render to take place for 1-2 days, it probably took them less than 5 days to have that whole "cutscene" ready. That's literally no effort when you take into account it's a AAA game with a massive budget.

    Do me a favor, if you ever see any of my posts ever again, don't respond to them. Every thread where you and I have gone at it, has just been a massive waste of my time because you have no context to back yourself on. It's like talking to a wall, and I don't enjoy it one bit.

    - - - Updated - - -




    "notoriously minor", ok.

    * Responsible for creation of deathwing - check
    * Responsible for Queen Azshara and the Naga existing post sundering - check
    * Responsible for corrupting the prime keeper Ra'Den - check
    * Responsible for massive corruption of Emerald Nightmare, messing with creation along with Yogg-saron - check
    * Got 2 Major elemental lords (Al'akir and Ragnaros) to bow down and serve him - check
    * Responsible for Twilight Dragonflight existing - check

    All this and I maybe forgetting 1-2 things here and there. "Notoriously minor".

    One can see why someone who's been that influential in wow lore and expansions so far was expected to have a grander exit. You know, those who can see the bigger picture. Definitely not those of you who only saw a couple bits and considered him "notoriously minor".
    That's about the experience everyone has on this forum when conversing with Blizzards No1 Fan. Talking to a wall.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    And yet some of the most beautiful swords in the world are made with a hammer. A simple, but effective, tool.

    Look, the point here is that we have tried being reasonable, and providing metric tons of feedback to blizzard. They either misinterpreted it, or ignored it. So now what they get is anger, derision, hyperbole, and profanity. Your argument about elegance might carry more weight if Blizzard had been more communicative and reasonable with players. But they haven't done that, have they?

    So players are going to vent, elegant or not.
    I don't get how people don't understand this?

    We have provided a metric shit tonne of feedback. Well written and well explained. This is what people resort to when they go ignored for so long.


    This expansion is a steaming pile of dog shit. Do I need to elaborate further anymore? No, I don't. It just is.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    We fought imprisoned, weakend and mostly avatars of old gods. This was the first time the old god was free to from any prison or shackles. He maybe weakest but it is only old god in full strenght that we face.
    I know that, but i cannot imagine it.

    This is why: The Titans did only defeat one old god, the other old gods were defeated by the titan keepers. Can you imagine that mere titan keepers and their armies could defeat old gods that are free, buid up their power and armies and are stronger than N'zoth as shown in BfA?

    I really can't.

    My theory to make this give some sense is that N'zoth got empowered by the deaths of the other old gods, they seem to be linked with the void gods, anyways. OR N'zoth was just the weakest physically, but in fact had the strongest psychic mind.

    In any case, i do not thing N'zoth is the weakest, his prison was more secure than any other old god prison, i twas actually deep down in an ocean and hard to break at all. Azshara couldn't do it alone.

    I would put some old god like that only out of reach if he was the most dangerous one.


    The lore is pretty vague on that in the game in terms of actual power.

    Besides, his death could just be a trick to fool us, who can say that was not another vision? The first boss fight in the raid was a vision, too!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Even Prophet Skitra nessed up with our mind in a quest in uldum so we destroyed our own camp!

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonDays View Post
    I don't get how people don't understand this?
    I think people do understand it, but don't want to accept it. Either they're viewing it in a vacuum, somehow ignoring all the history between Blizzard and their customers, or they're willfully choosing to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt because it's easier than facing the facts that they're in the wrong.

    Maybe...MAYBE there's .0001% of people out there who honestly and truly believe that civility is always the way to approach things, but I think that's so rare as to not be a point of consideration.

  20. #400
    Quote Originally Posted by Selastan View Post
    I remember thinking it was badass when I read that they focused the Forge of Origination to kill the Thunder King. I don't get how storming an alternate reality and portaling in a planet busting beam in an Old God's Tootsie Roll Center could be anything less than awesome. I don't get what people don't like, either.
    And i don't get, while N'zoth was completely aware of the forge, he would allow us to do this, without any plan B? Its OOC for N'zoth.

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