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  1. #141
    Brewmaster Highelf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    1. Sylvanas
    2. Nathanos
    3. Turalyon (they ruined you my boy)
    4. Liadrin
    5. Y'rel
    Yeah I absolutely hate what they've done to Turalyon. Guess he didn't make the list in time of cool strong male characters, seeing as how the limit is only 2.
    “I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.”
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  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by greyvax View Post
    malfurion and tyrande during the val'sharah quest where malfurion is taken. Probably the most cringe thing ever placed in this game.
    "tahronduh. Where are you?! I neeeeeeeeeed you. Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    Are sylvanas fanboys characters?

    Caricatures more like

  4. #144
    Brewmaster Highelf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    "Illidan" BEGONE FROM MY SIGHT!

    But seriously though:

    1. Sylvanas.

    2. Tyrande.

    3. Nathanos.

    4. Baine.

    And 5. Magni during BFA.

    Anduin at least got better! Much better!

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    Anduin isn't even that bad. Chill.
    Anduin is one of the worst written characters. The people that think like you do are in the vast minority.
    “I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.”
    ― Ronald Regan

  5. #145
    Elemental Lord HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    Anduin is one of the worst written characters. The people that think like you do are in the vast minority.
    He really isn't. Why do you think he is?

  6. #146
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    Anduin is one of the worst written characters. The people that think like you do are in the vast minority.
    Badly written? I wouldn't think so, myself. I don't like Anduin as a character myself, I think he's overwhelmingly naive and unrealistically optimistic, but those are character flaws that actually make him a realistic and fallible person, not "bad writing" in and of themselves.

    You can certainly dislike a character that's otherwise written well. I have similar thoughts about Sylvanas, as well; she's a great character and I absolutely loathe who she is and what she does as a fictional person in the Warcraft universe.
    "I remember what I told you, but I can't remember why. The moon is turning red and bleeding through the sky. Absolution, redemption, salvation at the end - when justice is served don't expect me to attend." - Trust Obey, "Raymond Chandler Evening"

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Grythletubs View Post
    The alliance are good this expansion.
    What acts of violence are you referring to?

    I get being a fan of your faction but you're spewing nonsense.
    Alliance is evil and will always be evil. They commited many heinous crimes that you can read everywhere.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  8. #148
    Elemental Lord HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Alliance is evil and will always be evil. They commited many heinous crimes that you can read everywhere.
    The Burning Legion's defeat was a mistake. Team Sargeras for life!

  9. #149
    Brewmaster Highelf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    He really isn't. Why do you think he is?
    Hey I was on the defend Anduin train for a long time. But then his decisions at the end of the faction war in bfa were unforgivable. He has a history of bad decisions (3 of them alone at the attack on Undercity)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Badly written? I wouldn't think so, myself. I don't like Anduin as a character myself, I think he's overwhelmingly naive and unrealistically optimistic, but those are character flaws that actually make him a realistic and fallible person, not "bad writing" in and of themselves.

    You can certainly dislike a character that's otherwise written well. I have similar thoughts about Sylvanas, as well; she's a great character and I absolutely loathe who she is and what she does as a fictional person in the Warcraft universe.
    I will have to respectful disagree wholeheartedly about sylvanas. Again, another character I liked then got written in to the dirt.
    “I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.”
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  10. #150
    Elemental Lord HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Highelf View Post
    Hey I was on the defend Anduin train for a long time. But then his decisions at the end of the faction war in bfa were unforgivable. He has a history of bad decisions (3 of them alone at the attack on Undercity)

    - - - Updated - - -



    I will have to respectful disagree wholeheartedly about sylvanas. Again, another character I liked then got written in to the dirt.
    I don't think he fully wanted to do what he did, but it was the best he could do in order to gain a small armistice while he tries to figure out the shit going on with Sylvanas and N'Zoth. He knows that further bloodshed could lead to the world collapsing, which is why he doesn't want to instantly act on anything.

    Tyrande's vengeance is, while noble in heart, could also lead to more harm to the Night Elves than good. Lord knows what they might do.

  11. #151
    Sylvanas
    Sylvanas
    Sylvanas
    Sylvanas
    Nathanos

  12. #152
    Jaina, Jaina, Anduin, Jaina and Magni.

  13. #153
    Brewmaster Highelf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    I don't think he fully wanted to do what he did, but it was the best he could do in order to gain a small armistice while he tries to figure out the shit going on with Sylvanas and N'Zoth. He knows that further bloodshed could lead to the world collapsing, which is why he doesn't want to instantly act on anything.

    Tyrande's vengeance is, while noble in heart, could also lead to more harm to the Night Elves than good. Lord knows what they might do.
    Of course he didn't WANT to counter attack and go to "war". Most people don't WANT to go to war. But at least when you do, realize that the leaders city you're attacking has a heavily fortified position(where were all the catapaults and siege tanks?) and the leader is a nut job that has blight and has used it before. If it wasn't for jaina, then alleria, then jaina again, (maybe that was the jab of the writers)the alliance would have died that day.

    She asked for help, from the race of people who have never helped hers before. He refused because he "didn't have the men". Yet a month or two later, everything he has is at the gates of Org as he hands his fathers sword to the orc that nearly killed Malf, helped sylvanas burn teldrassil, changed his honor 25 times, and slaughtered so many NE's pre WoW.
    “I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.”
    ― Ronald Regan

  14. #154
    Anduin's a boring character who is more or less a goodie-two-shoes trope. The value of Anduin is his interactions with other characters rather than Anduin himself. And their writing does show that they're willing to do more than just bow down to him entirely, thankfully. See: Genn and Tyrande more or less telling him to fuck off. That was actually a good moment even if it lead to disappointment later.

    Sylvanas is a badly presented character with a lame mystery angle that's either unearned or has thirty retcons attached to it at any moment. She's mostly frustrating not for her actions but because we're told of her actions rather than see them. It also doesn't help that they try to hype up events out of the story such as the Burning Tree and its moral greyness non-sense and trying to hype that you won't believe who did it. Everyone knew who did it until they started making it sound like it would be a surprise, and then they became annoyed when it was the obvious. They want Sylvanas to be this villain that moves the plot yet they make her as uninvolved as possible. Meanwhile somehow in Wrath Arthas had all the time in the world to keep going HUR HUR HUR COME FIND ME repeatedly throughout the whole expansion. You'd think Sylvanas, who would view you as her champion or a rival General would have more attachment. Nope.

    Neither of them even scratch the surface of top five by a mile.

    1) Nathanos. There is no excuse for his power curve. His allegiance seemed ridiculous. Him not going with her when she bails seems even more so in its inconsistency, as he seems to show no loyalty or care about his kin. Also as an aside if you're narratively supposed to be this over the top champion or "Speaker of the Horde" then oof at the way he even talks to you without being able to slap the jaw off his face. Belmont's way cooler. Just saying.

    2) Baine. Literal traitor. He's been talked about ad infinitum on the forums. Him happening to be right about some things with Sylvanas in retrospect does not change that he had no particular cues or anything in advance. And while trying to appease to Anduin is pretty Zzz, the camp Taurajo shit is still garbage. This is really sad too because he had the potential to be a really cool character. In fact, I feel like a lot of this expansion had a lot of throwbacks to the End Time Cataclysm dungeon with his, Sylvanas, Tyrande and Jaina's echos. Where the hell is THAT Baine that when crossed has that mounting, burning anger instead of going "Hmph" and pretending to be a sneaky snitch?

    3) Vareesa. Ugh. This one is a little weird to put on the list admittedly because I feel like she's supposed to be a hypocritical, shitty person. I don't feel comfortable putting characters on a list of bad if the writers intent is to make the character the way they are. This is why I refuse to say Anduin or Sylvanas are particularly bad. Now you may wonder, why does Baine make the list if I feel that way? Because the writers try to make that out to be a GOOD thing with Baine, and he's a GOOD character for doing so. (He's not.) The issue with Vareesa is twofold. One, her introduction out of a legacy/important family just to be some character's arm-piece to make him more special. By default that makes her existence annoying. The other is she's pretty much the representation of the OG Elves and other than the invasion against Elisande she's been a complete waste of time. The last issue is she's always side-lined, which makes it hard to care about her. She's always the third wheel, be it among the sisters or even her husband's death. Her contribution to Thunderking was overshadowed by Jaina. Her contribution to the Nightborne war is sidelined by Tyrande alliance side and absolutely Liadrin. Her contribution to the Windrunners is crying and saying she's average. I will admit that her hypocrisy can be fun if you delve into the books but for any rare moments of amusement where she's convincing Sylvanas to poison Garrosh we have moments where a legendary Ranger becomes a damsel in distress repeatedly. Frankly any hope that she would develop into someone interesting died the moment Alleria popped her head out of the void.

    4) Tyrande. Everyone else has gone indepth on this, so I don't feel a need to. A quick summary: Blizzard seems to love shitting on this character, and its very noticeable. From Pandaria where the Warrior-Priestess General needed lessons from the equivalent of an infant to MUH LOVE. The big power-up has narrative potential that's already sullied to a degree by Nathanos Edgecaller, and narratively all that's been confirmed really is maybe Fandral Staghelm was right when he said she'd lead them to ruin. But like Baine, he'd be right for all the wrong reasons. Here's hoping Nightwarrior goes somewhere after its dud of a payoff. I'm still willing to suspend belief and go "She needed to master her new powers"; plz fix her.

    5) Illidan. The list asked for cringe, so how can he not be here? He's a literal cuck (Not the meme definition, literal) who literally can't compete with a guy who sleeps for thousands of years, has a billion talent/skills that feel unearned, is a prophesied chosen one and literally is an elf-demon. (OC please don't steal.) Jokes aside if they have to retcon an entire expansion just to get your anti-hero schtick to work properly maybe you're just a terribly written character. I will admit I loved his I AM MY SCARS moment, even though in retrospect I could feel my spirit try to cringe out of my body. Was still nice to see the Naaru blow up. Like, I think he's awful but I'm one of those people who deliberately watches bad movies if they're so bad or over the top by accident that they end up being funny. Somehow, as a character, I feel he fits that archetype. Which is weird because he's mingling with others who shouldn't be.

    Edit & Bonus Mention: Saurfang was dangerously close to making the list. They murdered my boy from pre-patch all the way through BFA. The only reason he didn't make it is because he was such a great character up until this expansion cycle.
    Last edited by Reivur; 2020-02-14 at 08:06 PM.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    Maybe he's not an incel?
    He's a cuck though

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Badly written? I wouldn't think so, myself. I don't like Anduin as a character myself, I think he's overwhelmingly naive and unrealistically optimistic, but those are character flaws that actually make him a realistic and fallible person, not "bad writing" in and of themselves.

    You can certainly dislike a character that's otherwise written well. I have similar thoughts about Sylvanas, as well; she's a great character and I absolutely loathe who she is and what she does as a fictional person in the Warcraft universe.
    They are both mary sue characters in their own way. Could be the reason why people don't like them.

  17. #157
    Nathanos from Legion to BFA was literally the only Horde alligned character who was able to get shit done without crying about MUH HONOR. That said, f*ck Sylvanas, Anduin, Baine, Magni and Khadgar.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    I don't think he fully wanted to do what he did, but it was the best he could do in order to gain a small armistice while he tries to figure out the shit going on with Sylvanas and N'Zoth. He knows that further bloodshed could lead to the world collapsing, which is why he doesn't want to instantly act on anything.

    Tyrande's vengeance is, while noble in heart, could also lead to more harm to the Night Elves than good. Lord knows what they might do.
    The Alliance could have retaliated instantly and thrown the Horde out of Night Elf territory, as it would be an allies duty. That would have prevented countless night elf civilans deaths, and Tyrande wouldn't have needed to go off the deep end. This "Alliance" is worthless if your allies do not defend you in your hour of need.

  19. #159
    5 is clearly not enough but I'll do my best
    1. Sylvanas. I watched Shadowlands cinematic with a facepalm, she's the embodiment of cringe at this point
    2. Anduin. Because he is not deleloped at all since...Pandaria I guess or where he started to act
    3. Baine. Spineless, traitorous and above that gigantic 3 m tall bull is a coward as well
    4. Alleria. Because unrealistic as hell. Spent 1000 years in Nether fighting Legion, then returned to Azeroth and somehow still hate orcs.
    5. Thrall. Besides all his whining in the last expacs, idea of "My people will live in desert because of our father's sins" is triggering me.
    Worth mentioning:
    Saurfang (was pretty cool guy until Blizz butchered him in BfA)
    Turalyon (same reasons as Alleria, hasn't changed his views at world at all)
    Nathanos (idc about that self-insert drama, imho he could be best Forsaken leader but bad script turned him into a pathetic pawn)
    Jaina (too unconsistent as for me. Fight Horde or be friend with it, you can't do both every single exp)

  20. #160
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    They are both mary sue characters in their own way. Could be the reason why people don't like them.
    I find "Mary Sue" an overused and often badly used descriptor in the lion's share of cases where it's used, to be honest. Not liking a character doesn't make them a Mary Sue, and neither Anduin nor Sylvanas really match the general criteria that constitutes a true Mary Sue type of character.

    Mary Sue characters are generally defined with a majority of these traits:
    • Widely recognized as an author insert or wish fulfillment character.
    • Can often perform better at tasks that shouldn't be possible given the amount of training or experience.
    • Usually able through some means to upstage the protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as an established hero or villain.
    • Bends the established rules of the fictional universe they inhabit.
    • Becomes overly central to the narrative in such a way as to upstage anyone in proximity to them.

    Satisfying one or two of these traits wouldn't really qualify a character as a true Sue-type, while satisfying 4-5 at once probably would.
    "I remember what I told you, but I can't remember why. The moon is turning red and bleeding through the sky. Absolution, redemption, salvation at the end - when justice is served don't expect me to attend." - Trust Obey, "Raymond Chandler Evening"

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