Was Thrall nerfed? Is he now an average hero?

[Aucald]

That's possible, then that would mean Velen is dead too, right? Since he is always at Anduin's side. So if this Void-corrupted Alleria can kill both Anduin and Velen, then she must be very strong.

No idea, really - I mean it's a Horrific Vision of what N'Zoth wants, so probably Velen is dead, but it's also not real. Alleria in the Horrific Vision would be very powerful, yes; but since it's more an existential nightmare it doesn't really matter in the final accounting. The same is true of Thrall in the Horrific Vision of Orgrimmar, as he was able to seemingly kill almost every other Horde leader in the Council to rule supreme over a tainted Ogrimmar (the only exception being Geya'rah, the last of the Mag'har in the Vision).

[Varodoc]

No idea, really - I mean it's a Horrific Vision of what N'Zoth wants, so probably Velen is dead, but it's also not real. Alleria in the Horrific Vision would be very powerful, yes; but since it's more an existential nightmare it doesn't really matter in the final accounting. The same is true of Thrall in the Horrific Vision of Orgrimmar, as he was able to seemingly kill almost every other Horde leader in the Council to rule supreme over a tainted Ogrimmar (the only exception being Geya'rah, the last of the Mag'har in the Vision).

Yeah, I should keep in mind it's just a Vision made by N'Zoth. In reality, powerful as she is, I doubt Alleria would be able to kill Velen. He is one of the most powerful and ancient beings in the cosmos.

[TheFirstOnes]

Yes. The elements abandoned him after he slaughtered Garrosh. Legion made that extremely clear.

[Spiffums]

All that power and Malfurion has never done shit with it. Always getting captured and having to be rescued. Sylvanas meanwhile, a Horde character through and through until recently, just solo'ed A Lich King (not THE, A Lich King, but still.) Sylvanas was also toying with Genn. Don't forget Thrall in Cataclysm's power level was over 8,000, even if he also wasn't technically Horde anymore, he was still more associated with The Horde.

He got reked from an axe to the back. Even if it was a crit an orc warrior shouldn't be able to take him down to "mostly dead" in one shot.

[Aucald]

He got reked from an axe to the back. Even if it was a crit an orc warrior shouldn't be able to take him down to "mostly dead" in one shot.

Combat in the lore doesn't really function like combat in the game. In terms of lore, an axe to the back is going to a fatal wound to almost any humanoid being, unless they're actively protected by magical barriers of some sort. Similar to Lord Godfrey being able to kill Sylvanas though a single shot to the head, where in-game a Hunter could pelt Sylvanas with any number of high-powered and/or magical shots to little or no effect (as she's a Boss tier NPC). If Malfurion had been face to face with Saurfang the result may have been quite different in any of a number of ways, but Malfurion was unprepared for his attack due to already being in a pitched battle with Sylvanas at the time.

[matrix123mko]

A number of indications about this, especially him being the hrode counterpart to horrific visions.. either that or Alleria is being raised up in profile.

Alleria is very powerful and so is vision Thrall. Real Thrall is just an orc with an axe.

[qwerty123456]

Alleria has over 10k years combat experience and also had to constantly use guerrilla tactics and avoid the full force of the legion. She then gained powers of the void, and if she has even half the powers Umbric has been shown capable of then she should basically be a one man army. The fact that the "Oh shit!" version of Org has Thrall as the boss should speak volumes to his power especially when the lore of the SW one is where Alleria has lost her fight with the void and kills all the heroes and even her loved ones.


You could maybe argue that Turalyon held back because he still loved her and thought she could still saved but even then she still is powerful as hell. So if anything Thrall got a boost in power (atleast compared to mopey thrall)

[Varodoc]

By the way, do you guys think that Alleria got a power-boost when she succumbed to the whispers? Did N'Zoth allow her to unleash the full power of the Void at the cost of her sanity? Are there any other characters who became stronger by succumbing to the whispers of a malevolent force?

[Oakshana]

Alleria consumed the heart of a dark naaru and became the first mortal to successfully defy the shadows' whispers. We don't know how strong she is. For all we know she could be as powerful as Jailer-empowered Sylvanas (though we don't know that for sure because their fight was interrupted before it started). It's not unreasonable to believe she is around the level of power of Cataclysm Thrall (strongest version of Thrall).

What the actual fuck all does this have to do with Thrall and his drop in power? Can you please keep your cringy Alleria felating to yourself?

Infracted.

[Varodoc]

What the actual fuck all does this have to do with Thrall and his drop in power? Can you please keep your cringy Alleria felating to yourself?

Actually the thread is not only about Thrall if you've read the OP. Besides a comparison with Alleria is inevitable, since she is his counterpart in this situation.

Feel free to answer my question though, it was really just a random doubt that came into my mind after seeing how many people were discussing Alleria in this thread (myself included).

[Thage]

By the way, do you guys think that Alleria got a power-boost when she succumbed to the whispers? Did N'Zoth allow her to unleash the full power of the Void at the cost of her sanity? Are there any other characters who became stronger by succumbing to the whispers of a malevolent force?

Short answer, yes. Shadow priests have a mechanic where they build up power as they allow their sanity to fracture, then reassert themselves as the burst of power runs its course. One would assume Alleria, who similarly channels the Void directly, would also be able to tap into greater power at the cost of going mad, the difference being her madness isn't a temporary affectation.

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Alleria is very powerful and so is vision Thrall. Real Thrall is just an orc with an axe.

To be fair, 'just an orc with an axe' is no small shakes given the track record we're working with here (Grom, Saurfang, Garrosh, Eitrigg...).

[Rathwirt]

I feel like shamans would be the easiest class to corrupt because they're already used to listening to the whispers of the elements. How easy it must be for N'zoth to be an "element" guiding them. I believe there was a short story using something similar already. N'zoth doesn't seem to mind giving power to those under his control, so Thrall being powerful in the visions scenario is fine with me. Right now, yeah, he's too self-doubting to be a real threat. He showed up to fight Sylvanas but he clearly expected to lose.

[Jastall]

To be fair, 'just an orc with an axe' is no small shakes given the track record we're working with here (Grom, Saurfang, Garrosh, Eitrigg...).

Sure, but it can't compare to being a powerful shaman. Once Thrall got serious in his duel with Garrosh, the latter didn't stand a chance, same with Saurfang who could do little but distract Malfurion in A Good War or Grommash who charges Gul'dan head on and gets instantly incapacitated for his trouble. Gameplay wise Warriors can tackle any class and win, lorewise a powerful magic user will shit on them in a straight up fight easily.

As of right now, Thrall is probably an above average warrior (the excerpt from the upcoming novel shows him a skilled axe thrower if nothing else) with some Shaman powers. That probably makes him stronger than pure warriors like Baine or Muradin, but not much, and he's likely below the more powerful racial leaders like Velen, Jaina or Talanji.

[Razaron]

...and using the elements to cheat in the mak'gora...

That’s a myth I’m afraid, plenty of evidence to suggest magic is allowed.

[matrix123mko]

To be fair, 'just an orc with an axe' is no small shakes given the track record we're working with here (Grom, Saurfang, Garrosh, Eitrigg...).

Orcs like humans have humongous plot armor.

[Varodoc]

Short answer, yes. Shadow priests have a mechanic where they build up power as they allow their sanity to fracture, then reassert themselves as the burst of power runs its course. One would assume Alleria, who similarly channels the Void directly, would also be able to tap into greater power at the cost of going mad, the difference being her madness isn't a temporary affectation.

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To be fair, 'just an orc with an axe' is no small shakes given the track record we're working with here (Grom, Saurfang, Garrosh, Eitrigg...).

Thank you for the answer. I was wondering that because, well, Alleria is already very powerful without N'Zoth's corruption, but with her true Void strength unleashed she could actually be above Thrall too.

[Leonton]

Basically with BM let it sit and use it at the end of the encounter when the boss is below 35% and you have Aspect of the Wild up.
With MM you want to use it every Trueshot window.

[Spiffums]

Combat in the lore doesn't really function like combat in the game. In terms of lore, an axe to the back is going to a fatal wound to almost any humanoid being, unless they're actively protected by magical barriers of some sort. Similar to Lord Godfrey being able to kill Sylvanas though a single shot to the head, where in-game a Hunter could pelt Sylvanas with any number of high-powered and/or magical shots to little or no effect (as she's a Boss tier NPC). If Malfurion had been face to face with Saurfang the result may have been quite different in any of a number of ways, but Malfurion was unprepared for his attack due to already being in a pitched battle with Sylvanas at the time.

Well in game and in the novel both he didn't die from the blow. T baby still had to come save his bacon.

[Aucald]

Well in game and in the novel both he didn't die from the blow. T baby still had to come save his bacon.

He is however critically wounded and near death, whereas if a Troll Axethrower in WC3 were to attack him it would basically be like a getting hit by a gnat.

[GreenJesus]

He doesn't have any shaman powers anymore unfortunately. Thrall got circumsized but the doctor cut off the whole dick by accident. That's why the wife and kids lived in a separate house on Outland.