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  1. #361
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Which is a shame - because it was not much later they introduced Flex difficulty (now normal) which may have filled that niche for you - much harder than what classic has to offer, yes, but certain fights would still be pretty simple for you. And obviously if thats STILL too tough, there is always lfr - there is nothing stopping you doing LFR as a guild, and its only a very small step up in difficulty from Classic raids.

    But if you are enjoying classic, then you may have found somewhere to call home anyway!
    You really need to keep your arguments consistent. You keep arguing both sides of the issues which makes it hard not to think that you're posting for effect.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    You really need to keep your arguments consistent. You keep arguing both sides of the issues which makes it hard not to think that you're posting for effect.
    What argument?

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Ladies and gentleman, the classic community in full blown defensive mode! Watching the handful of you still committed to this "classic is a DIFFERENT kind of hard" argument is like watching flat earthers in a debate.
    Learn to read dumb zoomer i didnt even argue that

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    PvE is easy

    PvP isn't limited action bullshit, the fact most of you retailer pvpers still use vanilla bars says it all.
    Blizzard actually made some changes to the action bars not that long ago so they're no longer the same as they were in vanilla.

  5. #365
    Salty Feline Overlord Beerbill Society's Avatar
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    I don't think its hard but you should put a lot of effort towards things, get buffs and consumables, crafts and such.

    It's a different game. Just like the rubick cube early years people thought that it was impossible to solve, today you can children doing it blind folded with one finger under 30 seconds, it's something old that people had a lot of time to practice and know all the rules and quirks before going into it.


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  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbill Society View Post
    I don't think its hard but you should put a lot of effort towards things, get buffs and consumables, crafts and such.

    It's a different game. Just like the rubick cube early years people thought that it was impossible to solve, today you can children doing it blind folded with one finger under 30 seconds, it's something old that people had a lot of time to practice and know all the rules and quirks before going into it.
    Again, those are the people clearing it in 30-45 mins, maybe up to 1 hour. But people with zero experience, zero knowledge walked in on day 1 and full cleared in a few hours, without stacking buffs and chugging consumables. Others have shown the numbers - even if we say the top 100 guilds who take this very seriously smashed it out very quickly - even if we remove that extreme - it was still cleared by something like 1200 guilds on day one in a few hours - and those are just the ones who logged their kill.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    If you want to take a stimulus-response view of games, sure. But... I don't. I play to have fun with people. Anyone who takes rewards in video games seriously is unbalanced, too.
    fun is also a reward in this context... you playing the game (input/work) and you are getting rewarded with a good feeling/fun (output).

    also read this:

    you misunderstood something. its about work/reward balance. each individual has its own comfort zone. The comfort zone can be left in both directions too easy and too hard difficulty. I for myself left mythic progress raiding some years ago because the difficulty bar has left my comfort zone at some point and it became too stressful and the fun factor faded away. But on the other hand vanilla or classic is way too easy to keep me attracted on a long term. It's acutally quite funny that the current dps performances of the top to mid tier raid guilds would destroy naxxramas already.
    Last edited by Millyraynge; 2020-02-16 at 07:11 PM.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Millyraynge View Post
    fun is also a reward in this context... you playing the game (input/work) and you are getting rewarded with a good feeling/fun (output).

    also read this:
    We dropped down a difficulty for main raids for this reason - we no longer had the drive and commitment to be competitive at that level, so as a guild, we decided to focus on fun. We still enjoy the raids, but it is less demanding, allowing the quick afk to check the kids, grab a bear, phone call for work etc without causing too much disruption.

    We do SOME progression on mythic once we have full cleared and over geared, and we are no longer receiving any material reward for our efforts. Some of us also have spots in mythic raid teams and still progress through there, but as a guild, we generally focus on heroic more - we found the sweetspot for our guild, with our lives, and our timeframe.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbill Society View Post
    I don't think its hard but you should put a lot of effort towards things, get buffs and consumables, crafts and such.
    And make the game even easier??? No thanks, it's already way too easy without them.

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    And make the game even easier??? No thanks, it's already way too easy without them.
    Again, I don't agree the game is "too easy". Clearly many are enjoying the much easier content, and I have no problem with that at all.

    Like I said, we dropped down to heroic because we felt the effort was no longer worth it - in short, we were not having enough fun to justify the input. So for some, this is a great alternative if they find the much more demanding retail gameplay to require too much effort, with not enough enjoyment.

  11. #371
    Classic just demands a lot of your time. Its not hard, ever.
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  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Classic just demands a lot of your time. Its not hard, ever.
    30mins isn't that much time /s

  13. #373
    Bloodsail Admiral Nalam the Venom's Avatar
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    If you can wipe in the game.. then it's not too easy.

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  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    I feel that the community kinda lied to the players that came in fresh. Classic was painted as this hardcore super difficult game compared to a dumbed down super easy retail when in reality it's the complete opposite. Classes have like two buttons to press if they're lucky and bosses have almost no mechanics.

    Unless you're extremely horny for the best gear in the game with as little challenge as possible I can't really see how anyone could enjoy this version of raiding for very long. Struggle is kinda important for things to feel meaningful, even in a video game.
    Sad to hear that. I played Vanilla when it was actual content. And in my memory it was way more challenging than this brainless aoe mass murdering retail stuff. So i hoped, when finding the time, that i can get harder content in classic. But to invest 2-3 months to level up to 60, being bored because i leveled 10 chars in 2005-2007 and know all content well, just to have more easy endgame content than retail (non mythic).... sounds not good.

  15. #375
    Classic has a lot of content.

    You have to go make it.

    This is not retail. You are not handed stuff.

    Join the ironman/hardcore challenge community thate growing each day. We are starting up community events.

  16. #376
    Field Marshal Zendhal The Black's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Classic has a lot of content.

    You have to go make it.

    This is not retail. You are not handed stuff.

    Join the ironman/hardcore challenge community thate growing each day. We are starting up community events.
    yea let me just create raids with actual mechanics out of thin air so I can experience all the glorious content classic have

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Not only that, to me it seems that big parts of the community tried to mislead the uninformed such as myself to believe that it was indeed harder than anything that came after.

    On some bosses I never even move. I stand in the same spot spamming a single button. If that's not the definition of trivial I don't know what is.
    The hardest part of the first 2.5 raids was finding 40 people to fill a spot. Then after that the hard part was that you could do everything perfect and still have the tank die because a parry swing reset combo with an ability. All the people who quote that you need xxx consumables to clear stuff have no clue what they are talking about.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Classic has a lot of content.

    You have to go make it.

    This is not retail. You are not handed stuff.

    Join the ironman/hardcore challenge community thate growing each day. We are starting up community events.
    So what you are saying is there is no actual content so you have to make it up......that alone is why classic is worse than retail.....where there is real stuff to do.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Classic has a lot of content.

    You have to go make it.

    This is not retail. You are not handed stuff.

    Join the ironman/hardcore challenge community thate growing each day. We are starting up community events.
    I like how you said this isn't retail where you are handed stuff and that you have to make your content and then reference something retail players have been doing for years (Iron man)
    Like do you guys read what you type or think about what you are typing?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zendhal The Black View Post
    yea let me just create raids with actual mechanics out of thin air so I can experience all the glorious content classic have
    You say it like it's impossible
    I have created 4 raids and 10 dungeons and put them all into the game, each 10x more difficult than ez mode Nya'lotha
    #classic4lyfe
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  19. #379
    Back then was hard because people didn't know how to play. Also this days the players are more serious when they play and focus more.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarx View Post
    Back then was hard because people didn't know how to play. Also this days the players are more serious when they play and focus more.
    Classic was designed specifically to appeal to a much more casual playerbase. This was the "advantage" it had over the competition. As such, they got exactly what they aimed for - casual players with little to no mmo experience.

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