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  1. #101
    yes its very easy as current content, it was quite hard back then (getting people together to not stand on shit and do some tactics).

    I feel like the classic community let itself down by pushing this pure vanilla experience instead of asking for raids to be buffed by at least 100% and make them a bit more challenging.

    For now it is what it is, I hope they learn for TBC and they actually buff raids.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    The 10 year anniversary of WoW, with LFR Molten Core, was the thing of absolute nightmares for collectors... and is a testament showcasing how stupid people in LFR are.
    You should've seen the 15 year one then. Supreme wipers being Defile on LK and Adds on Ragnaros

  3. #103
    Ofc it's easy. It's largely Blizzard's fault though: all the changes that made the game easy over it's lifespan are implemented. Talents, upgraded gear, just straight nerfs/fixes to the content and here you go.
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  4. #104
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    I noticed that people i know that are very casual are still playing Classic.
    Most hardcore players moved back to retail for some pvp/raids.
    Maybe they find retail too complicated and love the basic of Classic.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I know its cute to say 'lol u can finish LFR in a coma with no brain activity' but LFR has had mechanics that matter for a while now. As a recent example Wrathion's Scorching Blister explosions absolutely still kill if you fail at it in LFR. Even as far back as Throne of Thunder, Durumu had to be done correctly in LFR or you wiped.

    So yeah, Classic is in fact easier than LFR and people wiping the floor with BWL in 42 minutes is proof in the pudding. Sorry/not sorry.
    Your "proof" makes no sense. If you want to compare difficulties then you need to look at the same group of people doing both kinds of content.
    And if you do that, you cannot argue that BWL is easier than lfr. BWL is just easier for the worlds best players than lfr is for the worlds worst players. That says absolutely nothing about it's difficulty.

    If you would send the standard unbuffed, ungeared, uncoordinated group of lfr players into bwl they would die a horrible death. Because nearly every trash or boss mechanic, while simple, actually kills your raid quite quickly when screwed up. That's just not the case in lfr, except for some very rare exceptions that got nerfed the second Blizzard saw raids wipe to them.

    BWL is similiar to todays normal mode. The mechanics are generally easier and far less complicated, but deadlier for the entire raid and you have to coordinate 40 people instead of 10-30.

    Comparing classic to lfr is the same sort of hyperbole as comparing classic to mythic raiding was before classic launched.
    Last edited by owbu; 2020-02-14 at 10:53 AM.
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  6. #106
    Classic was never hard, it was time consuming and slow paced. Classic by modern standards is a bad game in all aspects apart from two: Character progression and realm communities.
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  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by lollerlaban View Post
    You should've seen the 15 year one then. Supreme wipers being Defile on LK and Adds on Ragnaros
    Least those were straight to the boss, MC had the entire thing and could take 3 hours just to do 1 run.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    Well many guilds did normal within hours as well as hc, some both...

    - - - Updated - - -



    And this is most important thing...
    guilds with mythic gear from previous tier, bcs thats actualy on par with new normal diff gear
    but im 100% sure people with normal gear did not clear the raid within first day, not alone first hour

  9. #109
    Almost all old games are easy compared to modern standards, safe a few exceptions, of course Modern AI's and mechanics are simply more complex due to less technological and engine constraints.
    "There is no end to education. It is not that you read a book, pass an examination, and finish with education. The whole of life, from the moment you are born to the moment you die, is a process of learning." by Jiddu Krishnamurti, Philosopher and Educator

  10. #110
    It's unfair to compare Classic raiding to Vanilla raiding or Retail Mythic raiding.

    Big differences between raiding in Classic and Vanilla.

    - 1.12 client with 1.3 content (talent and ability buffs, content nerfs, Hydraxian Warlord reputation available in Silithus early, bug fixes, etc)
    - 15 years experience playing WoW compared to 0 years experience.
    - Abusing bugs and systems (Layer hopping early on, running multiple raids with alts to gear mains faster)
    - Addons making encounters easier (NEVER complain about a game being easy if you use addons to make it easier for you)
    - Internet speed sometimes being a bitch in Vanilla
    - Managing 40 people while lots of them are fairly new to games

    The difference between raiding in Classic and retail Mythic.
    - 15 years of experience compared to 0 years of experience (new encounters in retail)
    - Loads of available addons and videos of encounters in Classic compared to zero in retail.

    And Retail Mythic is also cleared in a few days so how could Classic stand a chance if it's old content everyone knows?

    Having said all that, top end guilds clearing BWL doesn't say much about the average joe. They will probably still wipe plenty.

    Don't get me wrong, the average joe in Classic is more skilled than the average joe was in Vanilla. But I've seen people fully geared in MC epics wipe in 5 man dungeons because they get carried by their 39 friends while raiding and when they are forced to use their skills themselves they can't. These people will certainly wipe a lot in BWL where it's easier for a few people to screw things up. Same thing will happen in AQ40.

    Not sure about Naxx since lots of people know the fights from Wrath of the Lich King so that's a huge advantage.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    guilds with mythic gear from previous tier, bcs thats actualy on par with new normal diff gear
    but im 100% sure people with normal gear did not clear the raid within first day, not alone first hour
    Exactly, because many fight are tuned around gear and not skill. Well, you need lots of skill but gear s what gives you the edge because you need to push every single % you can. That is why many top guilds where paying millions for right corruption stats.
    More than 2300 guilds killed at least 1 boss on mythic, i cant really check ( too lazy ) how many cleared hc and normal within but i guess the number would be close to few thousand more.
    People with normal gear yeah probably didnt, but when they got the gear they could have.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    It contextual to what he said. He said BWL is easy because some guilds are clearing BWL sub 45mins. Those guilds have been practicing. How quickly did your guild clear BWL without practice?
    My guild raids later in the week. We don't care about speed, we won't use pots/flasks (let alone world buffs), optimized (or even full) setups, but I have little doubt that we will 1shot most/all bosses.
    Last edited by Alphatorg; 2020-02-14 at 11:04 AM.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Daronokk View Post
    It's unfair to compare Classic raiding to Vanilla raiding or Retail Mythic raiding.

    Big differences between raiding in Classic and Vanilla.

    - 1.12 client with 1.3 content (talent and ability buffs, content nerfs, Hydraxian Warlord reputation available in Silithus early, bug fixes, etc)
    - 15 years experience playing WoW compared to 0 years experience.
    - Abusing bugs and systems (Layer hopping early on, running multiple raids with alts to gear mains faster)
    - Addons making encounters easier (NEVER complain about a game being easy if you use addons to make it easier for you)
    - Internet speed sometimes being a bitch in Vanilla
    - Managing 40 people while lots of them are fairly new to games

    The difference between raiding in Classic and retail Mythic.
    - 15 years of experience compared to 0 years of experience (new encounters in retail)
    - Loads of available addons and videos of encounters in Classic compared to zero in retail.

    And Retail Mythic is also cleared in a few days so how could Classic stand a chance if it's old content everyone knows?

    Having said all that, top end guilds clearing BWL doesn't say much about the average joe. They will probably still wipe plenty.

    Don't get me wrong, the average joe in Classic is more skilled than the average joe was in Vanilla. But I've seen people fully geared in MC epics wipe in 5 man dungeons because they get carried by their 39 friends while raiding and when they are forced to use their skills themselves they can't. These people will certainly wipe a lot in BWL where it's easier for a few people to screw things up. Same thing will happen in AQ40.

    Not sure about Naxx since lots of people know the fights from Wrath of the Lich King so that's a huge advantage.
    yeah mythic retail is cleared in a few days........

    by people who play the game as a job and spend 40.000€ in gold to do so.

    imagine , such a guild would have cleared naxx day one in vanilla

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Even as far back as Throne of Thunder, Durumu had to be done correctly in LFR or you wiped.
    Well,before they nerfed it. After that, one could pretty much ignore the maze mechanic.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
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  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    The 10 year anniversary of WoW, with LFR Molten Core, was the thing of absolute nightmares for collectors... and is a testament showcasing how stupid people in LFR are.
    I spent 3 hours in one run there and never went back...

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    Exactly, because many fight are tuned around gear and not skill. Well, you need lots of skill but gear s what gives you the edge because you need to push every single % you can. That is why many top guilds where paying millions for right corruption stats.
    More than 2300 guilds killed at least 1 boss on mythic, i cant really check ( too lazy ) how many cleared hc and normal within but i guess the number would be close to few thousand more.
    People with normal gear yeah probably didnt, but when they got the gear they could have.
    my point was, people in classic DIDNT have gear from nax to clear BWL, so comparing it to people with 2difficulties higher gear seems a bit unfair...
    and btw, first guild to clear HC Nyalotha managed to do it on day 2, and first normal was 7h (last boss dying some 4h after first boss death), with people geared in previous tier mythic gear and m+ gear, so no, nobody managed to do normal or HC raid on retail in hour 1, despite being overgeared...

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Daronokk View Post
    It's unfair to compare Classic raiding to Vanilla raiding or Retail Mythic raiding.

    Big differences between raiding in Classic and Vanilla.

    - 1.12 client with 1.3 content (talent and ability buffs, content nerfs, Hydraxian Warlord reputation available in Silithus early, bug fixes, etc)
    - 15 years experience playing WoW compared to 0 years experience.
    - Abusing bugs and systems (Layer hopping early on, running multiple raids with alts to gear mains faster)
    - Addons making encounters easier (NEVER complain about a game being easy if you use addons to make it easier for you)
    - Internet speed sometimes being a bitch in Vanilla
    - Managing 40 people while lots of them are fairly new to games

    The difference between raiding in Classic and retail Mythic.
    - 15 years of experience compared to 0 years of experience (new encounters in retail)
    - Loads of available addons and videos of encounters in Classic compared to zero in retail.

    And Retail Mythic is also cleared in a few days so how could Classic stand a chance if it's old content everyone knows?

    Having said all that, top end guilds clearing BWL doesn't say much about the average joe. They will probably still wipe plenty.

    Don't get me wrong, the average joe in Classic is more skilled than the average joe was in Vanilla. But I've seen people fully geared in MC epics wipe in 5 man dungeons because they get carried by their 39 friends while raiding and when they are forced to use their skills themselves they can't. These people will certainly wipe a lot in BWL where it's easier for a few people to screw things up. Same thing will happen in AQ40.

    Not sure about Naxx since lots of people know the fights from Wrath of the Lich King so that's a huge advantage.
    Don't come to these people with your logic and facts dude, they just want to feel superior by bashing on classic.
    We've been clearing these raids for 15 years, of course we will clean them on day 1. If you re-released any of the previous mythic races it would be cleared instantly as well because 90% of clearing a raid for the first time is experience and coordination.

    People love mentioning how these full raids of Rank 14 geared players that have been playing the same raids for over a decade cleared the raid in an hour, how is that relevant? The 1.12 itemization is OP as fuck, everyone who has played on OG vanilla and classic servers remembers that, we are basically overpowered, people are literally going in on NAX-level PVP gear that didn't exist when the raid was released and that is literally the strongest gear in the game.

    Is classic harder than HC? With normal (e.g. original gear available back on release) yes, you need to perform well to kill Chromaggus and Nefarian whereas in Legion I remember blasting through HC with half of the raid being a fucking potato, howeHC in retail has more mechanics to worry about.

    Is classic easier than Mythic retail? Yes, I was a mythic raider for years and I actually cleared content unlike most of these keyboard warriors. And yes, Mythic is way harder than classic in any way shape of form.

    HC and Normal? Without OP gear that didn't exist in the OG vanilla (which is going to be 90% of the guilds situation btw), sorry but now. Retail normal and HC are a fucking joke bigger than any imbalanced classic.

  18. #118
    Well, playing as hunter became harder after the Classic. It's truth.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    my point was, people in classic DIDNT have gear from nax to clear BWL, so comparing it to people with 2difficulties higher gear seems a bit unfair...
    and btw, first guild to clear HC Nyalotha managed to do it on day 2, and first normal was 7h (last boss dying some 4h after first boss death), with people geared in previous tier mythic gear and m+ gear, so no, nobody managed to do normal or HC raid on retail in hour 1, despite being overgeared...
    And MC was cleared yeah fast with new talents and new patch, something that wasnt there in Vanilla. Its like doing Argus with BfA talents, I remember m+, people that could barely get to 3k score were going over 4k in 2 days after new talents.

    Yes, classic wow is easier compared to retail, but put 40 people in MC without knowing anything and they will wipe like idiots for days.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    What do you mean "back when"?
    It still is lol.
    If you want to play it casually.... There are several (I can think of 4) different ways to play the game hardcore if want to.

    *End content raiding (up to top guilds level, or world first racing if you have the time, skill, perseverance and consistency)
    *End content pvp (up to rank 1 glad, or arena competitions. Even top RBGing but thats a thing by itself)
    *Collections (achievements, mounts, pets, toys, completing the game up to max)
    *End content mythic+ (up to super high Io rankings or MDI even)

    Any of that is not a joke, takes a lot of hours and some require an amount of skill most ppl simply dont have even with lots of practice.

    Blizzard allowing players to play the game however you want doesnt make it "casual". Choose the way you want
    Last edited by Xeh.-; 2020-02-14 at 11:27 AM.

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