Is Classic too easy?

[Lolites]

Well many guilds did normal within hours as well as hc, some both...

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And this is most important thing...

guilds with mythic gear from previous tier, bcs thats actualy on par with new normal diff gear
but im 100% sure people with normal gear did not clear the raid within first day, not alone first hour

[Kynario]

Almost all old games are easy compared to modern standards, safe a few exceptions, of course Modern AI's and mechanics are simply more complex due to less technological and engine constraints.

[Daronokk]

It's unfair to compare Classic raiding to Vanilla raiding or Retail Mythic raiding.

Big differences between raiding in Classic and Vanilla.

- 1.12 client with 1.3 content (talent and ability buffs, content nerfs, Hydraxian Warlord reputation available in Silithus early, bug fixes, etc)
- 15 years experience playing WoW compared to 0 years experience.
- Abusing bugs and systems (Layer hopping early on, running multiple raids with alts to gear mains faster)
- Addons making encounters easier (NEVER complain about a game being easy if you use addons to make it easier for you)
- Internet speed sometimes being a bitch in Vanilla
- Managing 40 people while lots of them are fairly new to games

The difference between raiding in Classic and retail Mythic.
- 15 years of experience compared to 0 years of experience (new encounters in retail)
- Loads of available addons and videos of encounters in Classic compared to zero in retail.

And Retail Mythic is also cleared in a few days so how could Classic stand a chance if it's old content everyone knows?

Having said all that, top end guilds clearing BWL doesn't say much about the average joe. They will probably still wipe plenty.

Don't get me wrong, the average joe in Classic is more skilled than the average joe was in Vanilla. But I've seen people fully geared in MC epics wipe in 5 man dungeons because they get carried by their 39 friends while raiding and when they are forced to use their skills themselves they can't. These people will certainly wipe a lot in BWL where it's easier for a few people to screw things up. Same thing will happen in AQ40.

Not sure about Naxx since lots of people know the fights from Wrath of the Lich King so that's a huge advantage.

[markos82]

guilds with mythic gear from previous tier, bcs thats actualy on par with new normal diff gear
but im 100% sure people with normal gear did not clear the raid within first day, not alone first hour

Exactly, because many fight are tuned around gear and not skill. Well, you need lots of skill but gear s what gives you the edge because you need to push every single % you can. That is why many top guilds where paying millions for right corruption stats.
More than 2300 guilds killed at least 1 boss on mythic, i cant really check ( too lazy ) how many cleared hc and normal within but i guess the number would be close to few thousand more.
People with normal gear yeah probably didnt, but when they got the gear they could have.

[Alphatorg]

It contextual to what he said. He said BWL is easy because some guilds are clearing BWL sub 45mins. Those guilds have been practicing. How quickly did your guild clear BWL without practice?

My guild raids later in the week. We don't care about speed, we won't use pots/flasks (let alone world buffs), optimized (or even full) setups, but I have little doubt that we will 1shot most/all bosses.

[ArenaDk]

It's unfair to compare Classic raiding to Vanilla raiding or Retail Mythic raiding.

Big differences between raiding in Classic and Vanilla.

- 1.12 client with 1.3 content (talent and ability buffs, content nerfs, Hydraxian Warlord reputation available in Silithus early, bug fixes, etc)
- 15 years experience playing WoW compared to 0 years experience.
- Abusing bugs and systems (Layer hopping early on, running multiple raids with alts to gear mains faster)
- Addons making encounters easier (NEVER complain about a game being easy if you use addons to make it easier for you)
- Internet speed sometimes being a bitch in Vanilla
- Managing 40 people while lots of them are fairly new to games

The difference between raiding in Classic and retail Mythic.
- 15 years of experience compared to 0 years of experience (new encounters in retail)
- Loads of available addons and videos of encounters in Classic compared to zero in retail.

And Retail Mythic is also cleared in a few days so how could Classic stand a chance if it's old content everyone knows?

Having said all that, top end guilds clearing BWL doesn't say much about the average joe. They will probably still wipe plenty.

Don't get me wrong, the average joe in Classic is more skilled than the average joe was in Vanilla. But I've seen people fully geared in MC epics wipe in 5 man dungeons because they get carried by their 39 friends while raiding and when they are forced to use their skills themselves they can't. These people will certainly wipe a lot in BWL where it's easier for a few people to screw things up. Same thing will happen in AQ40.

Not sure about Naxx since lots of people know the fights from Wrath of the Lich King so that's a huge advantage.

yeah mythic retail is cleared in a few days........

by people who play the game as a job and spend 40.000€ in gold to do so.

imagine , such a guild would have cleared naxx day one in vanilla

[Osmeric]

Even as far back as Throne of Thunder, Durumu had to be done correctly in LFR or you wiped.

Well,before they nerfed it. After that, one could pretty much ignore the maze mechanic.

[Mosotti]

The 10 year anniversary of WoW, with LFR Molten Core, was the thing of absolute nightmares for collectors... and is a testament showcasing how stupid people in LFR are.

I spent 3 hours in one run there and never went back...

[Lolites]

Exactly, because many fight are tuned around gear and not skill. Well, you need lots of skill but gear s what gives you the edge because you need to push every single % you can. That is why many top guilds where paying millions for right corruption stats.
More than 2300 guilds killed at least 1 boss on mythic, i cant really check ( too lazy ) how many cleared hc and normal within but i guess the number would be close to few thousand more.
People with normal gear yeah probably didnt, but when they got the gear they could have.

my point was, people in classic DIDNT have gear from nax to clear BWL, so comparing it to people with 2difficulties higher gear seems a bit unfair...
and btw, first guild to clear HC Nyalotha managed to do it on day 2, and first normal was 7h (last boss dying some 4h after first boss death), with people geared in previous tier mythic gear and m+ gear, so no, nobody managed to do normal or HC raid on retail in hour 1, despite being overgeared...

[unixtreme]

It's unfair to compare Classic raiding to Vanilla raiding or Retail Mythic raiding.

Big differences between raiding in Classic and Vanilla.

- 1.12 client with 1.3 content (talent and ability buffs, content nerfs, Hydraxian Warlord reputation available in Silithus early, bug fixes, etc)
- 15 years experience playing WoW compared to 0 years experience.
- Abusing bugs and systems (Layer hopping early on, running multiple raids with alts to gear mains faster)
- Addons making encounters easier (NEVER complain about a game being easy if you use addons to make it easier for you)
- Internet speed sometimes being a bitch in Vanilla
- Managing 40 people while lots of them are fairly new to games

The difference between raiding in Classic and retail Mythic.
- 15 years of experience compared to 0 years of experience (new encounters in retail)
- Loads of available addons and videos of encounters in Classic compared to zero in retail.

And Retail Mythic is also cleared in a few days so how could Classic stand a chance if it's old content everyone knows?

Having said all that, top end guilds clearing BWL doesn't say much about the average joe. They will probably still wipe plenty.

Don't get me wrong, the average joe in Classic is more skilled than the average joe was in Vanilla. But I've seen people fully geared in MC epics wipe in 5 man dungeons because they get carried by their 39 friends while raiding and when they are forced to use their skills themselves they can't. These people will certainly wipe a lot in BWL where it's easier for a few people to screw things up. Same thing will happen in AQ40.

Not sure about Naxx since lots of people know the fights from Wrath of the Lich King so that's a huge advantage.

Don't come to these people with your logic and facts dude, they just want to feel superior by bashing on classic.
We've been clearing these raids for 15 years, of course we will clean them on day 1. If you re-released any of the previous mythic races it would be cleared instantly as well because 90% of clearing a raid for the first time is experience and coordination.

People love mentioning how these full raids of Rank 14 geared players that have been playing the same raids for over a decade cleared the raid in an hour, how is that relevant? The 1.12 itemization is OP as fuck, everyone who has played on OG vanilla and classic servers remembers that, we are basically overpowered, people are literally going in on NAX-level PVP gear that didn't exist when the raid was released and that is literally the strongest gear in the game.

Is classic harder than HC? With normal (e.g. original gear available back on release) yes, you need to perform well to kill Chromaggus and Nefarian whereas in Legion I remember blasting through HC with half of the raid being a fucking potato, howeHC in retail has more mechanics to worry about.

Is classic easier than Mythic retail? Yes, I was a mythic raider for years and I actually cleared content unlike most of these keyboard warriors. And yes, Mythic is way harder than classic in any way shape of form.

HC and Normal? Without OP gear that didn't exist in the OG vanilla (which is going to be 90% of the guilds situation btw), sorry but now. Retail normal and HC are a fucking joke bigger than any imbalanced classic.

[MrZhdens]

Well, playing as hunter became harder after the Classic. It's truth.

[markos82]

my point was, people in classic DIDNT have gear from nax to clear BWL, so comparing it to people with 2difficulties higher gear seems a bit unfair...
and btw, first guild to clear HC Nyalotha managed to do it on day 2, and first normal was 7h (last boss dying some 4h after first boss death), with people geared in previous tier mythic gear and m+ gear, so no, nobody managed to do normal or HC raid on retail in hour 1, despite being overgeared...

And MC was cleared yeah fast with new talents and new patch, something that wasnt there in Vanilla. Its like doing Argus with BfA talents, I remember m+, people that could barely get to 3k score were going over 4k in 2 days after new talents.

Yes, classic wow is easier compared to retail, but put 40 people in MC without knowing anything and they will wipe like idiots for days.

[Xeh.-]

What do you mean "back when"?
It still is lol.

If you want to play it casually.... There are several (I can think of 4) different ways to play the game hardcore if want to.

*End content raiding (up to top guilds level, or world first racing if you have the time, skill, perseverance and consistency)
*End content pvp (up to rank 1 glad, or arena competitions. Even top RBGing but thats a thing by itself)
*Collections (achievements, mounts, pets, toys, completing the game up to max)
*End content mythic+ (up to super high Io rankings or MDI even)

Any of that is not a joke, takes a lot of hours and some require an amount of skill most ppl simply dont have even with lots of practice.

Blizzard allowing players to play the game however you want doesnt make it "casual". Choose the way you want

[Nak88]

No, it isn't. My guild and I wiped all night long on Razorgore yesterday. Most of us began to play WoW in late Vanilla/early TBC (mostly leveling, I didn't even reach cap level until WotLK) but we didn't raid because we were too young. For those 32-35+ year-old veterans it might be easy, but this is a new raid for a lot of Classic players.

[Zka]

sorry to dissapoint you, but it will not, not even naxx will hold longer

I don't particularly care about the top 10 guilds who have been farming classic content for 15 years. Our guild is casual with minimal vanilla experience. I'm sure Naxx will be a pretty good challenge for us.

[OrcsRLame]

I noticed that people i know that are very casual are still playing Classic.
Most hardcore players moved back to retail for some pvp/raids.
Maybe they find retail too complicated and love the basic of Classic.

As a casual player, the thing I like about classic over retail is the lack of grind and the lack of RNG. If the boss drops my item, and it's my turn to get it, then I have BiS in that slot at least until the next patch. I don't have to worry about any kind of forging or corruption bullshit. The out of raid prep is also really light too. I don't have to grind tons of AP for free ilvl to be competitive, I don't have to grind for rank 3 essences or worry about completing my weekly +10. Just a little bit of herbing each week and I can play at what is more or less a top level.

I just don't got the time or the energy for retail these days.

[potis]

- 1.12 client with 1.3 content (talent and ability buffs, content nerfs, Hydraxian Warlord reputation available in Silithus early, bug fixes, etc)

You people need to stop with these clueless bullshit.

Patch 1.8 in October 2005, destroyed the performance of every melee spec by 30-40%, its called Instant Attack normalization.

1.12 players actually deal less DPS than 1.7-1.8 patch, aka 3-4 months of BWL clearing back in 2005, with the same gear levels.

The difference is, KNOWLEDGE, players in summer 2005, had 0 knowledge and were simply terrible compared to 1 year after and Naxx, and hit ratings, and Edgemaster's.

If you were there at actual higher level, you know these shit.

The day all my maximum hits lost 1000 damage, is dearly remembered.

[OrcsRLame]

You people need to stop with these clueless bullshit.

Patch 1.8 in October 2005, destroyed the performance of every melee spec by 30-40%, its called Instant Attack normalization.

1.12 players actually deal less DPS than 1.7 patch, aka 4 months of BWL clearing back in 2005, with the same gear levels.

The difference is, KNOWLEDGE, players in summer 2005, had 0 knowledge and were simply terrible compared to 1 year after and Naxx, and hit ratings, and Edgemaster's.

If you were there at actual higher level, you know these shit.

The day all my maximum hits lost 1000 damage, is dearly remembered.

I didn't know that and that's actually amazing. Thank you for posting this!

[Domixux]

You people need to stop with these clueless bullshit.

Patch 1.8 in October 2005, destroyed the performance of every melee spec by 30-40%, its called Instant Attack normalization.

1.12 players actually deal less DPS than 1.7 patch, aka 4 months of BWL clearing back in 2005, with the same gear levels.

The difference is, KNOWLEDGE, players in summer 2005, had 0 knowledge and were simply terrible compared to 1 year after and Naxx, and hit ratings, and Edgemaster's.

If you were there at actual higher level, you know these shit.

The day all my maximum hits lost 1000 damage, is dearly remembered.

Still 1.12 melee specs dominate the dps logs. So much for destroyed performance. I agree on the knowledge part though. Back in vanilla you wouldn't run raid comps with such a heavy meele lineup.

[Uoyredrum]

Leveling is a lot harder, endgame is a lot easier. That's what happens when you have an old game with more punishing mechanics vs. a 15 year old version of the same game that holds your hand but still also wants to be an esport that nobody watches.