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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    I'm going to step in here for a minute.. So

    1) To be clear: I'm probably the worst player in WoW

    2) This mof'ca is 1200 MMR - MY GRANDMA in a WHEELCHAIR has a higher mmr than this dood..
    Yeah, obviously. It's more about the damage numbers. Imagine what happens when you have actually skilled players stacking this kind of gear.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    as bitter as i am about my luck this is hilarious, and to think the people with this gear will say they are skilled....while standing in barrel smash on 2nd boss fh to do extra dips.
    The best thing is I just whisper my infinite stars item and I'm in. This is the best thing ever. Ty blizzard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    Honestly raiding is kind of a dead scene for more and more people these days. Yeah, groups exist out there but their numbers are dwindling. As we move forward in time, the internet grows increasingly more toxic and people in their right minds* remove themselves from this toxicity. Leading to a new focus on smaller group content such as M+, where it’s more likely that a group of 5 friends will form, opposed to a group of 10-30/20 friends forming for a raid.

    *Not that you’re wrong for liking to do large group content, but people who know what they do/don’t want and making their decision based on that to better their daily life.

    There isn’t a game out there that doesn’t suffer from a troll problem. It’s rampant.
    can you fit more buzzwords in one post?
    if anything the m+ communnity is far more cutthroat than the raiding scene, so I have no clue what you're talking about, unless you've never actually made it past 3k rating on any season so then you don't even know what you're talking about, because everyone is a butthole at those levels.
    please find new words to describe things you don't like

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by ArkantosChampion View Post
    That image doesn't even capture the full absurdity of the RNG involved with IS.

    I have a 475 r3 IS and my damage swings from pull to pull. One pull in 4 minutes it'll do 2mil, the next pull it'll do over 6mil. I've had my r3 beat OFTEN by people with only a r2.

    The fact a corruption can swing from 2mil to 6mil from pull to pull based on nothing other than RNG is absurd.

    Playing your class doesn't even matter anymore. How you parse this tier, at least single target, is hope you get the kill on a good IS rng pull.

    Sometimes you're doing 80k at 10% sometimes you're doing 70k based on nothing other than IS procs.
    Last edited by asil; 2020-02-14 at 11:59 PM.

  5. #105
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Yeah, obviously. It's more about the damage numbers. Imagine what happens when you have actually skilled players stacking this kind of gear.
    Agreed there on that, I just know if you stack too much corruption I can't heal you damnit - so PLEASE for th love of whatever you pray with: I'm a healer and the higher you stack I can't even heal (had a dood like this in a BG with like 200 corruption keep dying lol)

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    I'm going to step in here for a minute.. So

    1) To be clear: I'm probably the worst player in WoW

    2) This mof'ca is 1200 MMR - MY GRANDMA in a WHEELCHAIR has a higher mmr than this dood..
    1) We know, your sig has your armory :3

    2) We love you anyway so it's k.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boomzy View Post
    As if the horde faction imbalance could be worse now we have floofy foxes
    Quote Originally Posted by Dossou View Post
    and he's got a fat ass
    Quote Originally Posted by bmjclark View Post
    This thread is a nice reminder that Blizzard can do something nice and still get absolutely shit on for it.

  7. #107
    I would have much rather gotten plain items, and then have the 8.3 grind be about adding corruption to those items.

    Would feel way better than doing the same amount of work for a lesser item than someone else who hits the rng jackpot.

    - P

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Well, PVP is a different beast. The only place skill matters is on the tournament servers or Esports events. Otherwise it's all just screwing around, and gear absolutely overpowers all other considerations.

    However, I will say that in PVE, skill does matter in regards to upper-level content, such as high keys in M+ or Mythic raiding. Otherwise, if skill didn't matter, then everyone would be doing that. And they clearly aren't. Doing your rotation perfectly, positioning correctly, and executing fight mechanics are very important. OP gear like Infinite Stars absolutely helps. When DPS can do 20-40% more damage because of a single trait....that's kind of broken and bad design. It takes away any real option for your build and boils it down to a single stat, which is shallow and weak. Because of the nature of RNG drops, it also means that a person's performance in a raid relies even less on skill, less on build, less on procs.....it's all just a handful of lucky drops.

    Granted, getting that one drop your character needs has always been a thing. Best in Slot drops have always been a part of wow. But like I said, stuff like Infinite Stars is taking that concept to the extreme. And it's NOT good for the game at all.
    You're not doing 20-40% more damage because of a single trait. Not unless you compare a literal perfect RNG Infinite Stars rank 3 against an addless boss (so basically just Shad'har, maybe Maut if you tunnel) against no corruption whatsoever. The actual effect of winning the lottery, compared to someone with average corruption, is more along the lines of 5-7% more DPS; very important for world first raiding and stupid high key pushing, not that significant otherwise unless you're a parsemonger. On most fights switching traits will yield better results than just mindlessly going for whatever sims highest.

    Now, one would have a good point that it's still too much and too reliant on randomness. IMO you should have been able to infect gear with Corruption with Mementos or something. But let's not make this far, far worse than it actually is. This is Legiondaries all over again where people were tearing their shirts off and pretending everyone and their grandma got benched because they got a leggy that increased their DPS by 5% instead of 8% in an ideal scenario.

  9. #109
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DazManianDevil View Post
    1) We know, your sig has your armory :3

    2) We love you anyway so it's k.
    <3334 love you too fam (even if I'm mean I always mean well/joking)

    The big thing is the corruption is new so it's of course not fully balanced - Blizz supposedly made multiple passes though at this corruption so.. I mean I feel like the numbers still need to be worked a bit but stacking 350 corruption will instantly kill someone on pull, nobody believes me but I sware I had this dood reporting me afk / and eventually ignored me in a BG when I was dumping heals into him and he just literally got one shot by people due to combat lol

    Anyway, hopefully the corruption gets another pass on those OP ones

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    <3334 love you too fam (even if I'm mean I always mean well/joking)

    The big thing is the corruption is new so it's of course not fully balanced - Blizz supposedly made multiple passes though at this corruption so.. I mean I feel like the numbers still need to be worked a bit but stacking 350 corruption will instantly kill someone on pull, nobody believes me but I sware I had this dood reporting me afk / and eventually ignored me in a BG when I was dumping heals into him and he just literally got one shot by people due to combat lol

    Anyway, hopefully the corruption gets another pass on those OP ones
    As a side note about this system, I always found it amusing how Blizzard had the gall to give such a severe kiss/curse system to the general unwashed populace.

    I can only imagine the shitshow in LFR and BGs down the road with people not understanding the system just equipping everything they got and getting two-shot right and left.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Throwme View Post
    So a scrub that has never set foot in a +5 can suddenly push +15?

    And someone that used to do +15 blindfolded with one arm on the back is suddenly so bad that a +5 means wiping on the first pack?
    when you know you have no true argument so you have to act obtuse lmao
    change can't wait.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    Wrong.


    This game has always been about staying on the tread mill and getting the best gear you could, but in the past (pre-legion), the variability of the impact gear had of various ilvls wasn't nearly as large as it is now. Two people clearing the same content could relatively reasonably expect to have the same gear, and thus skill would be the determining factor for performance (assuming same spec).


    Mischaracterization at it's finest. People weren't mad at templates and not being able to out-gear people. They were mad that 1) gear STILL ABSOLUTELY had an impact and 2) Even with the easy tuning knobs of templates, balance was still horrendous and oversaturated with fotm specs and comps. They should have been tuning that shit weekly. They failed at utilizing the tool properly.


    And again, that's easy enough to do. So what does the game come down to AFTER you reach that relatively low bar? What was left to optimize? Ah. Right. Personal performance and skill.


    The entire reason raiding was as long lived and as popular as it is in wow is because of the unique competitive cooperation it has. People love to epeen stroke. Just downing a boss in a group is boring, and no one likes to be the bitch getting carried (well.. maybe they do?).



    Literally every sport in the history of ever. What matters to people and how much it matters isn't for you to say. "But sports make so much money!" yeah, and when "kick a ball with your firends" started back in like 12097963bc, did it make tons of money then? No? It took Time? A SHIT ton of time? Wow. Who would have thought.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I don't know what the difference is, but I can definitely say even 5k dps is hugely meaningful when the overall dps a person has on a fight is 50k. 10% variance is still way too much for a dumb special effect that is randomly acquired from non-static, RNG layered loot. "Did it drop" was good enough in the past, and it would allow stupid stuff like this to be much less meaningful, since basically everyone and their brother would get it at some point during a raid tier if they were full-clearing that raid. Now? Not so much.
    1) I still think that it never mattered how good you were in this game- you didn't prove anything by stating "wrong."

    2) I agree with you that the gear is more variable now. That's totally random though. To support your argument that this would play a part in negating player skill, the variability would have to be intentionally targeted to benefit lower skilled players and its just not- its random.

    3) Gear didn't have an impact at first (in beta).... they changed it to have a small impact because people were complaining. As for balance- has this game ever been balanced? Not in my memory- there are always OP, fotm and nerfed classes...... that's just the nature of this game and will never change. Blizzard has proven themselves thoroughly incapable of balancing this game. I always wondered if they hired a professional statistician to balance the game, would he/she would be able to?

    4) You admitted that the bar is low and said that that leaves skill but you didn't really offer any evidence on that so not sure how to respond....

    5) I don't think raiding was popular because of e-peens and you are referring to a different type of competition. Raiding was popular because you could group up with your friends, chat and bs on discord while you killed something. It requires some strat- so there is something to keep it interesting but I don't think people raided because they were "competitive." I'm sure some did, but I don't think that is true of the majority. It was more of a social thing for most, I think.

    6) The game and the sport don't really matter. They are forms of entertainment. I like WOW and enjoy it, as I enjoy a football game- but do either really matter? I don't think so........ After WoW, there will be some other game to play. People will say things like "remember when we used to play warcraft with the raids and all that...." and then the conversation will move on.... See? It doesn't really matter......

  13. #113
    Just make a guild called "No Corruption" where everyone cleanses the gear immediately. You'll all know that you have the absolute BiS items, and that you're playing the game on the hardest, most expertly tuned difficulty with zero crutches or perks. Come to the forums and boast how you've pushed high ass keys and gotten mythic raid kills 100% by the skill of your gameplay by denying the bonus effects. No different than turning off the 30% in ICC and killing Heroic LK, then showing it off to the world.

    People who've been complaining about Titanforging ruining BiS and that gear drops too frequently could've been doing this for almost a decade now by just DEing 'forged gear and proclaiming that they're playing the game the Classic, more challenging way.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldfrostzero View Post
    The difference is, if it dropped in MC, BWL, Naxx, whatever prior to Throne of Thunder, it was always the item. It never had a chance to suddenly be as good or better than the the hardest difficulty's base item level. If you do LFR and you Titanforge to max item level while someone has the same exact item drops in Mythic and it doesn't Titanforge, you got rewarded for essentially AFKing over someone who has to play next to perfect to get a worse item.

    You're talking about a completely different system, that while it was active, had unlimited tries. I also got all 34 mage tower appearances. I was also a Mythic raider at one point. One of the reason I quit was because it felt stupid to be doing Mythic every week and then I go into a PUG heroic group or normal group and watch some guy who barely showed up on the meter get an item better than my Mythic item. In Legion, I had to completely switch my main because I was raiding Mythic EN and my alt shadow priest had the BIS belt drop while my paladin had the shitty interrupt ring drop (well before they buffed into being actually usable). The RNG loot system with additional RNG that now has even MORE RNG put on top of it makes it extremely disappointing when you get screwed over constantly.

    If they want to fix the system, make it so it can't roll higher than the next difficulty's base level until they've cleared that boss on the next difficulty.
    Or just turn LFR into what they did with WoD. Ugly looking gear that was horrible stat wise.

    Or better yet, remove LFR all together. Normal pugs are not a problem now because of the LFM we have now.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by Laqweeta View Post
    Or better yet, remove LFR all together. Normal pugs are not a problem now because of the LFM we have now.
    I never understood why LFR inflicts such a mental anguish on various posters here. Guess it's part of the "if it's not for me - it's terrible and needs to be removed".

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I never understood why LFR inflicts such a mental anguish on various posters here. Guess it's part of the "if it's not for me - it's terrible and needs to be removed".
    It's not that at all.

    LFR makes players terrible. LFR makes gear feel worthless, as does World Quests. Oh, you got a TF 445 WQ piece tapping a mob at 2% HP? Wow, it took me forever to get mine clearing M EP.

    Not only that, but removing LFR removes quite a big gear bump as well.

    All players wanted was to see the story, so add in single player scenarios. Done.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Let's not make this far, far worse than it actually is. This is Legiondaries all over again where people were tearing their shirts off and pretending everyone and their grandma got benched because they got a leggy that increased their DPS by 5% instead of 8% in an ideal scenario.
    I think the issue that really gets under people's skin is the random nature of acquiring it. As you said, it's the same sort of thing as legendaries, which also had that problem.

    What it boils down to is the extreme unfairness of it. One person does some stupid non-difficult thing and gets a random drop that jumps their performance, another person has been doing mythic raiding and high M+ keys for weeks and has nothing to show for it. The disparity between those things is all wrong, and it rubs people the wrong way.

    Ion likes to say "We've learned a lot from this", but it doesn't seem like they actually are. If this kind of thing makes its way into Shadowlands, there's going to be a lot of unhappy players.

  18. #118
    The Lightbringer Sanguinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laqweeta View Post
    It's not that at all.

    LFR makes players terrible. LFR makes gear feel worthless, as does World Quests. Oh, you got a TF 445 WQ piece tapping a mob at 2% HP? Wow, it took me forever to get mine clearing M EP.

    Not only that, but removing LFR removes quite a big gear bump as well.

    All players wanted was to see the story, so add in single player scenarios. Done.

    Nah, lets remove heroic & mythic raiding instead - just do normal or lfr and be happy with it.

    People obsessed with "being good" and claim they "want a challenge" are liars.

    LFR > Mythic


    /s
    Last edited by Sanguinerd; 2020-02-15 at 07:15 PM. Reason: adding /s for clarification

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinerd View Post
    Nah, lets remove heroic & mythic raiding instead - just do normal or lfr and be happy with it.

    People obsessed with "being good" and claim they "want a challenge" are liars.

    LFR > Mythic
    100% guaranteed LFR hero/WQ expert lmao

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I think the issue that really gets under people's skin is the random nature of acquiring it. As you said, it's the same sort of thing as legendaries, which also had that problem.

    What it boils down to is the extreme unfairness of it. One person does some stupid non-difficult thing and gets a random drop that jumps their performance, another person has been doing mythic raiding and high M+ keys for weeks and has nothing to show for it. The disparity between those things is all wrong, and it rubs people the wrong way.

    Ion likes to say "We've learned a lot from this", but it doesn't seem like they actually are. If this kind of thing makes its way into Shadowlands, there's going to be a lot of unhappy players.
    Yep, and it's even worse than legion legendaries, because legion legendaries:
    1. Had a cap of 2 equipped
    2. You were guaranteed at some point of the game to actually get all of them (so ultimately get BIS even if it took you 6 months)
    3. Had BLP
    4. Didn't have extra variance in them, pyro bracer was pyro bracer not 420 pyro bracer rank 1 vs 475 pyro bracer rank 3
    5. Oh, and didn't have a chance to kill you for just wearing them

    There's also a big difference between "op item that adds you 5% dps" and "op corruption that can add up to 20-30% dps", just a reminder legion leggos that DID add 10-20% dps or more GOT NERFED.

    Also forgot to mention:
    6. You didn't have a chance to "cleanse" your sephuz into a normal ring or reroll it into something else so when it ultimately got buffed you wouldn't feel stupid for getting rid of it. Not the case with corruption. They even made leggos undeletable after someone spread a rumour that deleting them increased your chance to get another (which Blizz claimed to be false).

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